Pigs at the trough 2016
Discussion
0000 said:
Companies used to value loyalty. They don't anymore, unfortunately, with a more mobile workforce it's worth much less. If people are going to stay in a job that doesn't pay overtime companies will quite happily let them.
That's a false generalisation.edited to add
If anything I think the reverse applies - employees are much more mobile (and less loyal) so good employers need to make more effort to look after their staff!
Edited by sidicks on Thursday 19th May 08:55
smifffymoto said:
Rovinghawk said:
smifffymoto said:
All this has stopped but the bosses take no pay cuts,something has to give.
Why not start your own business if it's that good a deal?BTW I'm retired .
Enjoy your retirement and let those still working worry about the world of work.
sidicks said:
crankedup said:
But it's OK for you to throw out personal remarks, seems to me that double standards are at play as well so far as your concerned. If you use insults man up when one or two very mild rebukes head your way.
Double standards? It was your original post about personal insults that I quoted in my response...Treat my comments as insults if you will, I see them more as facts - it's unarguable that you are pretty ignorant about how fund management firms engage with the management of the businesses they invest in on behalf of their customers. Not sure why you'd even deny that?
Your attempted insults towards me were both irrelevant to the discussion and extremely wide of the mark. Unfortunately you are one of the many on PH who seem determined to demonstrate their ignorance by commenting on things they clearly don't understand.
I also see you're still struggling with the different between "your" and "you're"...
crankedup said:
This is about CEO and Board pay, not the running of the company, you seem to be confused.
You seem to be unaware that the CEO runs the company, no wonder you are finding this all so confusing...The CEO s head of the company, he enacts the wishes of the company owners via his Board Members, it's not like he is on his/her own to carry out the task. All employees have a role in the company.
Have you ever ran a company, even a small company?
Rovinghawk said:
smifffymoto said:
Rovinghawk said:
smifffymoto said:
All this has stopped but the bosses take no pay cuts,something has to give.
Why not start your own business if it's that good a deal?BTW I'm retired .
Enjoy your retirement and let those still working worry about the world of work.
I sold my business to a major American Company about 20 years ago and now enjoy retirement, although I am playing building another micro business now.
Retirement doesn't. mean I should crawl under a rock and not express my beliefs, I am vehemently against Corporate greed and some the widening wealth gap. Yes I still sometimes struggle with grammar and spelling errors, but then that has never got in my way, but offers some idiots on forums some easy point scoring, they must have sad lives I imagine
crankedup said:
The facts remain, CEO pay is out of control that has led to grossly excessive sums of money for individuals.
No, that's not a fact at all. That's your opinion, which may or may not be true for one, some, many, but certainly not all CEOs.crankedup said:
It's double standards of the worst type when these same people deny workers a modest pay rise, usually suggesting the company cannot afford it.
That clearly depends on what value the CEO adds and what value the employee adds.crankedup. said:
The CEO s head of the company, he enacts the wishes of the company owners via his Board Members, it's not like he is on his/her own to carry out the task. All employees have a role in the company.
Have you ever ran a company, even a small company?
What experience do you have of the job of a multinational CEO?Have you ever ran a company, even a small company?
crankedup said:
I ran my own business, influenced and directed major changes on a National basis, those changes and new innovations that I personally introduced are now part and parcel of the industry that I was part of. Customers now have far more choice in their decision making regarding requirement and purchases. Introduction to the market was met with hostility by the establishment, promotions through National media including newspapers, radio and television took a toll on my health ore several years. However, these innovations are now growing into the international markets.
I sold my business to a major American Company about 20 years ago and now enjoy retirement, although I am playing building another micro business now.
Retirement doesn't. mean I should crawl under a rock and not express my beliefs, I am vehemently against Corporate greed and some the widening wealth gap. Yes I still sometimes struggle with grammar and spelling errors, but then that has never got in my way, but offers some idiots on forums some easy point scoring, they must have sad lives I imagine
No-one is suggesting you shouldn't express your beliefs, they are just asking that you stick to things you know and understand, rather than making claims for which you have zero experience.I sold my business to a major American Company about 20 years ago and now enjoy retirement, although I am playing building another micro business now.
Retirement doesn't. mean I should crawl under a rock and not express my beliefs, I am vehemently against Corporate greed and some the widening wealth gap. Yes I still sometimes struggle with grammar and spelling errors, but then that has never got in my way, but offers some idiots on forums some easy point scoring, they must have sad lives I imagine
crankedup said:
I ran my own business, influenced and directed major changes on a National basis, those changes and new innovations that I personally introduced are now part and parcel of the industry that I was part of. Customers now have far more choice in their decision making regarding requirement and purchases. Introduction to the market was met with hostility by the establishment, promotions through National media including newspapers, radio and television took a toll on my health ore several years. However, these innovations are now growing into the international markets.
I sold my business to a major American Company about 20 years ago and now enjoy retirement, although I am playing building another micro business now.
Retirement doesn't. mean I should crawl under a rock and not express my beliefs, I am vehemently against Corporate greed and some the widening wealth gap. Yes I still sometimes struggle with grammar and spelling errors, but then that has never got in my way, but offers some idiots on forums some easy point scoring, they must have sad lives I imagine
No-one is suggesting you shouldn't express your beliefs, they are just asking that you stick to things you know and understand, rather than making claims for which you have zero experience.I sold my business to a major American Company about 20 years ago and now enjoy retirement, although I am playing building another micro business now.
Retirement doesn't. mean I should crawl under a rock and not express my beliefs, I am vehemently against Corporate greed and some the widening wealth gap. Yes I still sometimes struggle with grammar and spelling errors, but then that has never got in my way, but offers some idiots on forums some easy point scoring, they must have sad lives I imagine
Edited by sidicks on Thursday 19th May 13:59
Jockman said:
0000 said:
Companies used to value loyalty. They don't anymore, unfortunately, with a more mobile workforce it's worth much less. If people are going to stay in a job that doesn't pay overtime companies will quite happily let them.
I do. So do most other small businesses. I have employees that start as apprentices and spend their whole life with me. I was on £17k at the first (small) business I worked at, doing software development with some other grads and a few more senior people. >10 years on many are still there. I know they've not had more than 5% pay rises in any one year, any of them. I've moved jobs every 18-36 months, never for less than 20% and I've never seen anyone get that sort of pay rise within a company, large or small. I've had much larger bonuses yes, but they're not much use for financial planning or negotiating salary the next year. Maybe it's specific to IT though or maybe I've just had really bad employers but with the variety I've had I doubt it's that.
sidicks said:
crankedup said:
The facts remain, CEO pay is out of control that has led to grossly excessive sums of money for individuals.
No, that's not a fact at all. That's your opinion, which may or may not be true for one, some, many, but certainly not all CEOs.crankedup said:
It's double standards of the worst type when these same people deny workers a modest pay rise, usually suggesting the company cannot afford it.
That clearly depends on what value the CEO adds and what value the employee adds.crankedup. said:
The CEO s head of the company, he enacts the wishes of the company owners via his Board Members, it's not like he is on his/her own to carry out the task. All employees have a role in the company.
Have you ever ran a company, even a small company?
What experience do you have of the job of a multinational CEO?Have you ever ran a company, even a small company?
Yes of course it's about value the CEO brings to a company, it's also about the rewards and how those rewards are granted which is at the crux of this matter.
You didn't answer my question, have you ever ran your own business? I have offered a brief background of my professional life already, I think that is reasonable.
sidicks said:
crankedup said:
I ran my own business, influenced and directed major changes on a National basis, those changes and new innovations that I personally introduced are now part and parcel of the industry that I was part of. Customers now have far more choice in their decision making regarding requirement and purchases. Introduction to the market was met with hostility by the establishment, promotions through National media including newspapers, radio and television took a toll on my health ore several years. However, these innovations are now growing into the international markets.
I sold my business to a major American Company about 20 years ago and now enjoy retirement, although I am playing building another micro business now.
Retirement doesn't. mean I should crawl under a rock and not express my beliefs, I am vehemently against Corporate greed and some the widening wealth gap. Yes I still sometimes struggle with grammar and spelling errors, but then that has never got in my way, but offers some idiots on forums some easy point scoring, they must have sad lives I imagine
No-one is suggesting you shouldn't express your beliefs, they are just asking that you stick to things you know and understand, rather than making claims for which you have zero experience.I sold my business to a major American Company about 20 years ago and now enjoy retirement, although I am playing building another micro business now.
Retirement doesn't. mean I should crawl under a rock and not express my beliefs, I am vehemently against Corporate greed and some the widening wealth gap. Yes I still sometimes struggle with grammar and spelling errors, but then that has never got in my way, but offers some idiots on forums some easy point scoring, they must have sad lives I imagine
sidicks said:
Once again you turn up to a thread to add nothing to the topic under discussion, simply to try (and fail) to 'score points'.
How pathetic, and yet somehow not unexpected...
Edited by sidicks on Thursday 19th May 05:32
Thanks for the reply.
Your opinion matters to me
sidicks said:
Mr Whippy said:
But many others make judgements on the basis of greed.
Surely if one set of shareholders/stakeholders can use their emotional outlook to drive the corporate policy, then so should another?
What has making judgements on the basis of shareholder value (which is what the fund managers are being paid to do) got to do with 'greed'??Surely if one set of shareholders/stakeholders can use their emotional outlook to drive the corporate policy, then so should another?
Mr Whippy said:
Or is greed more valid than envy?
As ever, you are very confused!What business, and what shareholder, doesn't just want to take over the world, or get the highest ROI?
I'm confused and you're enlightened. So enlighten me.
Why is greed different to envy?
Surely greed begets envy?
Rightly or wrongly they're partners. Where greed is excessive, envy is likely excessive too.
If we're happy to let people exercise greed then why isn't it acceptable to let them exercise envy too?
crankedup said:
The facts remain, CEO pay is out of control that has led to grossly excessive sums of money for individuals.
1 Please prove that 'fact'. If you've asserted it without evidence then I can dismiss it without evidence.2 Please define "grossly excessive". I understand it to mean 'you don't like it'.
crankedup said:
It's an opinion shared by many other shareholders, around 50% of those that vote, is that fact enough for you.
No. An opinion doesn't become fact because lots of people think the same.Rovinghawk said:
crankedup said:
It's an opinion shared by many other shareholders, around 50% of those that vote, is that fact enough for you.
No. An opinion doesn't become fact because lots of people think the same.CEOs will think they're not paid enough, some of those paying their salaries will probably think they're paid too much.
If people who pay their salaries want to act on their views, then that is a good thing. They will take their money and invest in companies who don't pay their CEOs too much, in their view.
If this is important to businesses they can then alter their CEO pay accordingly.
Healthy capitalism is exactly what this country needs right now!
The last thing I want to see is government making arbitrary policy to try control anything on behalf of the apathetic class. It's those scrotums that need to wake up and take part in society rather than expecting government to do it for them!
sidicks said:
Mr Whippy said:
I do understand that my pension company manages my pension and charges an AMC of 1% of my fund total value, and they invest into independently managed funds who charge by taking value from the growth of the fund.
Still wrong - you choose to invest in external funds.Mr Whippy said:
Who is taking a commission for financial advice which I've never received?
"always seek your own independent financial advise" is the tag line of pension provicers, but you're saying I've paid for financial advise and that's the cost I'm unhappy with?
If you've not paid for financial advice it's no wonder you don't appear to have a clue as to the type of policy you have!"always seek your own independent financial advise" is the tag line of pension provicers, but you're saying I've paid for financial advise and that's the cost I'm unhappy with?
Mr Whippy said:
But once again you're avoiding the point I'm trying to make and picking away at details instead.
Fundamentally the details are irrelevant.
'Fundamentally" the details are the thing you are making claims about and you are very wrong!Fundamentally the details are irrelevant.
Mr Whippy said:
Pensions obfuscate the ability for people to vote with their wealth.
Only for people who don't understand them...From the SW website:
Can I switch my investment(s) into other funds?
Yes, you have access to a wide range of investments to choose from, allowing you to change your investment strategy to suit your retirement planning needs. Most plans currently allow investment fund switches each year at no extra charge
Edited by sidicks on Wednesday 18th May 20:49
Edited by sidicks on Wednesday 18th May 21:01
The pension fund charge me my AMC. I'm less happy with this because I can't see what they do that I can't just do myself.
The swaps are indeed free for me. For some reason I was looking at the wrong funds which had a 5% or so spread, possibly I was told wrong or I remembered wrong. It's noted down now.
However I do note that of the funds without spreads the selection is now very narrow (about 50 vs 250 for the other series of funds to invest in)
Which leads me to think a SIPP is probably the way I'll go. Lower fees means I don't have to perform so well by 1% a year which is quite a lot in the current economic climate... and I have near infinite investment granularity so I can punish greedy companies at will via my investment choices
But on the point about pensions being obfuscated only for people who don't understand them, you realise that is the vast majority of people?
Simplification in pension comms, and the comms industry itself are big business... for a reason... and yet they still fail to engage and educate pension savers.
Technically if people really did become fully engaged they'd all transfer out (newer DC members at least) for a SIPP which is the ironic thing
Thanks
Dave
Mr Whippy said:
Rovinghawk said:
crankedup said:
It's an opinion shared by many other shareholders, around 50% of those that vote, is that fact enough for you.
No. An opinion doesn't become fact because lots of people think the same.CEOs will think they're not paid enough, some of those paying their salaries will probably think they're paid too much.
If people who pay their salaries want to act on their views, then that is a good thing. They will take their money and invest in companies who don't pay their CEOs too much, in their view.
If this is important to businesses they can then alter their CEO pay accordingly.
Healthy capitalism is exactly what this country needs right now!
The last thing I want to see is government making arbitrary policy to try control anything on behalf of the apathetic class. It's those scrotums that need to wake up and take part in society rather than expecting government to do it for them!
I am also a Capitalist, but not at the expense of everything else which supports Society.
Unfortunately it is not always the best move to sell shares on the basis that the Board are being overpaid. Blue cihips are the bedrock of investments in company shares, usually safe reliable, rather dull, investments. They do usually pay reasonable dividends with a creep upwards in share price. I feel strongly in regard to over generous pay but not so strongly as to want to cut off my nose to spite my face. This is especially reinforced in the face of almost negative interest on cash investment.
So far as Government intervention is concerned, I long for the day when legislation is introduced which will lead to small investor votes regarding pay recommendations to be binding. This strikes me as being fair and reasonable.
Rovinghawk said:
smifffymoto said:
Rovinghawk said:
smifffymoto said:
All this has stopped but the bosses take no pay cuts,something has to give.
Why not start your own business if it's that good a deal?BTW I'm retired .
Enjoy your retirement and let those still working worry about the world of work.
legzr1 said:
Simply giving a decent member fair warning of your thin-skinned m.o.
Thanks for the reply.
Your opinion matters to me
Your opinion and any insults directed towards me are entirely insignificant, I just thought it was somewhat ironic that the person making personal insults was the same one who had previously complained about other members making personal insults...Thanks for the reply.
Your opinion matters to me
I reported you purely because you were disrupting the thread with repeated insults, offering nothing to the content of the thread (just as you are now), not because I was in the slightest way upset or concerned by your comments. They just confirmed what I'd already suspected about you.
crankedup said:
No that is incorrect, the CEO and Board put forward proposals for shareholders to decide on how the Company should move forward. Therefore it is the shareholders who run the company and employ people to execute the instructions from them.
No, the CEO and the Board run the company on behalf of the shareholders. In aggregate, the shareholders can vote to change things if they don't like it.crankedup said:
Thank goodness Mr Whippy can negotiate the differences between fact and opinions.
Seemingly not.crankedup said:
So far as Government intervention is concerned, I long for the day when legislation is introduced which will lead to small investor votes regarding pay recommendations to be binding. This strikes me as being fair and reasonable.
Only if that represents the majority of all shareholders - why should their votes be worth more than any other shareholders on a proportionate basis?Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff