another abuse gang
Discussion
La Liga said:
V8 Fettler said:
The criminal elements of domestic abuse and CSE should be prevented by the police, as per Peel's Principle #1
But you don't uncover / prevent it without significant time, work and effort in the, non-crime, 'softer' side of risk / vulnerability. If you use crime as the ultimate derivative, then take the strategy as a derivative of aiming to reduce crime. Don't need to reinvent the wheel to reduce and prevent domestic abuse and CSE.
La Liga said:
drivetrain said:
La Liga said:
he speculation some of the officers committed crime is just that since they are allegations the IPCC are looking into. Carinaman is unable to tell the difference but others should be able to.
The anti-police authority stance comes from the investigations about the failings of the police and other authorities in Rotherham, such as the Jay report. The anger the public feel is justified as some of the failings were quite comprehensive.
The important aspect is how to continue and to move forward so it doesn't occur again. Now the difference is most people aren't able to take this constructive approach and would rather continually focus on what has occurred. All such attitudes do is hold-back progression and moving forward.
I expect 'lessons will be learned' then.The anti-police authority stance comes from the investigations about the failings of the police and other authorities in Rotherham, such as the Jay report. The anger the public feel is justified as some of the failings were quite comprehensive.
The important aspect is how to continue and to move forward so it doesn't occur again. Now the difference is most people aren't able to take this constructive approach and would rather continually focus on what has occurred. All such attitudes do is hold-back progression and moving forward.
Rotherham again: Witness intimidation by a member of the now convicted child molesters family
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshi...
Suggestion for a panel to be set up to advise South Yorkshire police on how to deal with "far right" protest marches . This will help limit the "negative impact" of demonstrations on the town (the one synonymous with "Asian" child molestors.)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshi...
Of course, some people might say if South Yorkshire police had done their jobs in the first place they wouldn't need to be concerned with such demonstrations.
Edit: I'm sure the members of the panel will be working from the goodness of their hearts and not filling their pockets with lovely taxpayers wonga...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshi...
Suggestion for a panel to be set up to advise South Yorkshire police on how to deal with "far right" protest marches . This will help limit the "negative impact" of demonstrations on the town (the one synonymous with "Asian" child molestors.)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshi...
Of course, some people might say if South Yorkshire police had done their jobs in the first place they wouldn't need to be concerned with such demonstrations.
Edit: I'm sure the members of the panel will be working from the goodness of their hearts and not filling their pockets with lovely taxpayers wonga...
Edited by freakybacon on Tuesday 1st March 20:57
This happened in the town I live...
http://www.indexwiltshire.co.uk/would-you-like-to-...
Of course there are a lot of idiots asking on Facebook why is it a problem that they offered the girls sweets and saying it is racist as that is the only reason it made the news, apparently it wouldn't have got a mention if they were white
http://www.indexwiltshire.co.uk/would-you-like-to-...
Of course there are a lot of idiots asking on Facebook why is it a problem that they offered the girls sweets and saying it is racist as that is the only reason it made the news, apparently it wouldn't have got a mention if they were white
CorbynForTheBin said:
I think you missed his point...
I know, he was trying to be 'clever' about it being a generic statement etc etc. V8 Fettler said:
The measurement of the effectiveness of the police should be as per Peel: absence of crime. The authorities were aware of the CSE in Rotherham - albeit perhaps not the full extent - however the response was at the very least inadequate.
Don't need to reinvent the wheel to reduce and prevent domestic abuse and CSE.
Principles aren't a strategy, as ideals don't magically translate into practice. Don't need to reinvent the wheel to reduce and prevent domestic abuse and CSE.
Basically saying, "the police should stop bad things happening and detect those bad things that do", doesn't translate into practice, does it? A strategy connects the ideals to the practical application.
La Liga said:
CorbynForTheBin said:
I think you missed his point...
I know, he was trying to be 'clever' about it being a generic statement etc etc. V8 Fettler said:
The measurement of the effectiveness of the police should be as per Peel: absence of crime. The authorities were aware of the CSE in Rotherham - albeit perhaps not the full extent - however the response was at the very least inadequate.
Don't need to reinvent the wheel to reduce and prevent domestic abuse and CSE.
Principles aren't a strategy, as ideals don't magically translate into practice. Don't need to reinvent the wheel to reduce and prevent domestic abuse and CSE.
Basically saying, "the police should stop bad things happening and detect those bad things that do", doesn't translate into practice, does it? A strategy connects the ideals to the practical application.
andymc said:
They are always referred to as Asian men, can they not just say they are Pakistani's?
A truth that can't be said?I looked at the Katie Hopkins twitter channel as I wanted to check out that scar and the staples in her head.
She made a similar point about referring to them as 'Asian Men' in a tweet.
carinaman said:
andymc said:
They are always referred to as Asian men, can they not just say they are Pakistani's?
A truth that can't be said?I looked at the Katie Hopkins twitter channel as I wanted to check out that scar and the staples in her head.
She made a similar point about referring to them as 'Asian Men' in a tweet.
La Liga said:
CorbynForTheBin said:
I think you missed his point...
I know, he was trying to be 'clever' about it being a generic statement etc etc. V8 Fettler said:
The measurement of the effectiveness of the police should be as per Peel: absence of crime. The authorities were aware of the CSE in Rotherham - albeit perhaps not the full extent - however the response was at the very least inadequate.
Don't need to reinvent the wheel to reduce and prevent domestic abuse and CSE.
Principles aren't a strategy, as ideals don't magically translate into practice. Don't need to reinvent the wheel to reduce and prevent domestic abuse and CSE.
Basically saying, "the police should stop bad things happening and detect those bad things that do", doesn't translate into practice, does it? A strategy connects the ideals to the practical application.
andymc said:
They are always referred to as Asian men, can they not just say they are Pakistani's?
Not sure. They are in the Jay report and others. V8 Fettler said:
The principles (or objectives) drive the strategies
Exactly, so they aren't the strategies themselves, are they? Something as simplistic as a few lines don't deliver and realise the principles. 
La Liga said:
V8 Fettler said:
The principles (or objectives) drive the strategies
Exactly, so they aren't the strategies themselves, are they? Something as simplistic as a few lines don't deliver and realise the principles. Principles -> Strategies -> Tactics
V8 Fettler said:
La Liga said:
V8 Fettler said:
The principles (or objectives) drive the strategies
Exactly, so they aren't the strategies themselves, are they? Something as simplistic as a few lines don't deliver and realise the principles. Principles -> Strategies -> Tactics
If you read the strategies from around that time, they were focused on the fundamental aim of reducing crime and disorder. As I said earlier, they're simplistic without some creative interpretation.
La Liga said:
V8 Fettler said:
La Liga said:
V8 Fettler said:
The principles (or objectives) drive the strategies
Exactly, so they aren't the strategies themselves, are they? Something as simplistic as a few lines don't deliver and realise the principles. Principles -> Strategies -> Tactics
If you read the strategies from around that time, they were focused on the fundamental aim of reducing crime and disorder. As I said earlier, they're simplistic without some creative interpretation.
Good principles are the building blocks for effective strategies.
There are continuous crimes in all crime categories. There are finite resources. Giving with one hand takes from the other. More resources focusing on and working upon burglary, vehicle crime etc = more reduction. More resources focusing on and working upon CSE / vulnerability = more reduction.
Simplistic 'reduce crime and disorder' doesn't help to judge the balance and priorities. Crime and disorder was being reduced - it doesn't say 'all', does it? It's a given the that's the role of the police (thus why courts and prisons are full), so the focus (as I originally said) is rightly to judge which 'crime and disorder' should be reduced.
Simplistic 'reduce crime and disorder' doesn't help to judge the balance and priorities. Crime and disorder was being reduced - it doesn't say 'all', does it? It's a given the that's the role of the police (thus why courts and prisons are full), so the focus (as I originally said) is rightly to judge which 'crime and disorder' should be reduced.
carinaman said:
Is the Constable's Oath too simplistic?
Those officers that failed to address the industrial scale sexual exploitation of young girls would have said the Constable's Oath. Why didn't they adhere to it?
I am not buying this 'It was Home Office targets' idea.
Just an idea, but maybe they knew their superiors would be more worried about accusations of racism than about something the 'far right' were banging on about in their racist and obsessive way.Those officers that failed to address the industrial scale sexual exploitation of young girls would have said the Constable's Oath. Why didn't they adhere to it?
I am not buying this 'It was Home Office targets' idea.
AJS- said:
Just an idea, but maybe they knew their superiors would be more worried about accusations of racism than about something the 'far right' were banging on about in their racist and obsessive way.
I'm a simpleton. I think the Constable's Oath trumps all. If the Constable's Oath had been dropped by the wayside why make officers pledge it?
I think it's more likely vested interests in Rotherham Council and Common Purpose social engineering and political correctness than Home Office targets.
If a relation of the three brothers and uncle convicted the other week was on the Council and the Police & Crime Panel then I think due to the injunction that the Council wanted to stop The Times reporting it then some people should be in the dock for serious offences.
It's like rotten cills in a car. You can cut it out, or you can fill it with rolled up newspapers and paint and underseal over it.
Edited by carinaman on Saturday 5th March 15:11
La Liga said:
There are continuous crimes in all crime categories. There are finite resources. Giving with one hand takes from the other. More resources focusing on and working upon burglary, vehicle crime etc = more reduction. More resources focusing on and working upon CSE / vulnerability = more reduction.
Simplistic 'reduce crime and disorder' doesn't help to judge the balance and priorities. Crime and disorder was being reduced - it doesn't say 'all', does it? It's a given the that's the role of the police (thus why courts and prisons are full), so the focus (as I originally said) is rightly to judge which 'crime and disorder' should be reduced.
The correct judgement of balance and priorities is the responsibility of senior management, that's what they get paid for.Simplistic 'reduce crime and disorder' doesn't help to judge the balance and priorities. Crime and disorder was being reduced - it doesn't say 'all', does it? It's a given the that's the role of the police (thus why courts and prisons are full), so the focus (as I originally said) is rightly to judge which 'crime and disorder' should be reduced.
The "courts/prisons are full" argument is flawed, perhaps the courts are very inefficient and perhaps there aren't enough prison places.
V8 Fettler said:
The correct judgement of balance and priorities is the responsibility of senior management, that's what they get paid for.
Indeed, but ultimately they are guided by what the HO measures them on and wants them to focus upon. If a government is partly elected on certain crime and disorder pledges, then they're likely to ensure they are focused upon. V8 Fettler said:
The "courts/prisons are full" argument is flawed, perhaps the courts are very inefficient and perhaps there aren't enough prison places.
We imprison a lot of people (check out per 100k vs other EU countries). It doesn't matter if we don't have 'enough' spaces, it still requires the detection of crime to put people there. The courts are efficient enough to ensure we have one of the highest in the EU per 100k. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff