British Airways 777 fire at Las Vegas airport

[Disastrous]

mp3manager said:

In a nutshell, the people who ignored the cabin crew and acted on instinct, survived.

Firstly, sorry to hear all that.

Secondly, I've heard the quoted part of your post mentioned a few times by various experts. Enough times certainly, to make me feel like my best chance of surviving a situation is by doing what I think best, not what I'm told.

Imteresting and thanks for posting.

[Disastrous]

mp3manager said:

In a nutshell, the people who ignored the cabin crew and acted on instinct, survived.

Firstly, sorry to hear all that.

Secondly, I've heard the quoted part of your post mentioned a few times by various experts. Enough times certainly, to make me feel like my best chance of surviving a situation is by doing what I think best, not what I'm told.

Imteresting and thanks for posting.

[Vipers]

Disastrous said:

mp3manager said:

In a nutshell, the people who ignored the cabin crew and acted on instinct, survived.

Firstly, sorry to hear all that.

Secondly, I've heard the quoted part of your post mentioned a few times by various experts. Enough times certainly, to make me feel like my best chance of surviving a situation is by doing what I think best, not what I'm told.

Imteresting and thanks for posting.

Tend to agree, Piper Alpha disaster, some of the survivors did what they felt was the right thing to do. Generally though I think it's a bit of give and take. With a plane, the pilot and crew know what's happening, they know which emergency doors to operate, don't want exiting on to a burning wing. All said and done there is no easy answer, just hope I never to find out.

[stripy7]

mp3manager said:

stripy7 said:

Same thing happened at Manchester Airport disaster 30 years ago- the survivors climbed over seats to get out, a lot of the victims were queuing as though in a trance.

That's a crock o' crap.

As my dad was killed in that disaster and as I've got the official report, no where does it mention the people who died were 'queuing as though in a trance'.

Those who were killed, died as a result of several factors. Cyanide poisoning and other toxic fumes from the burning seat-foam, emergency exits blocked by seats fitted by money-grabbing air-lines and emergency exit doors which were faulty.

Sorry for your loss, if the pilot hadn't veered off then it's possible that all would have survived, the wind blew smoke into the cabin. It's a fact that survivors were those that climbed over seats.

[Beati Dogu]

I'm reminded of that Korean ferry disaster last year, where the crew buggered off after telling the passengers to stay in their cabins. Despite it taking two and half hours to actually capsize, many of the passengers did just that. Result: 476 dead, including 300 high school children.

No doubt there was a cultural thing going on there too. I can't imagine many British high school kids doing as they were told as the ship slowly listed over.

[stripy7]

Vipers said:

Disastrous said:

mp3manager said:

In a nutshell, the people who ignored the cabin crew and acted on instinct, survived.

Firstly, sorry to hear all that.

Secondly, I've heard the quoted part of your post mentioned a few times by various experts. Enough times certainly, to make me feel like my best chance of surviving a situation is by doing what I think best, not what I'm told.

Imteresting and thanks for posting.

Tend to agree, Piper Alpha disaster, some of the survivors did what they felt was the right thing to do. Generally though I think it's a bit of give and take. With a plane, the pilot and crew know what's happening, they know which emergency doors to operate, don't want exiting on to a burning wing. All said and done there is no easy answer, just hope I never to find out.

No the perceived wisdom at the time was no one could survive a jump into the sea from an oil platform. Some of the commercial divers who ignored this survived as they knew how to enter water from height - toes pointed, hand over face preventing water going up nose and blasting back of scull off.

[mp3manager]

stripy7 said:

Sorry for your loss, if the pilot hadn't veered off then it's possible that all would have survived, the wind blew smoke into the cabin. It's a fact that survivors were those that climbed over seats.

Thank you and I apologise for being abrupt.

I was supposed to be on that plane but circumstances meant I didn't go. There's a thing called 'survivors guilt' but I despite not physical being there, I do struggle mentally with that fact, that a random and trivial event, meant I didn't go and ultimately, survived.

[stripy7]

mp3manager said:

Thank you and I apologise for being abrupt.

I was supposed to be on that plane but circumstances meant I didn't go. There's a thing called 'survivors guilt' but I despite not physical being there, I do struggle mentally with that fact, that a random and trivial event, meant I didn't go and ultimately, survived.

No apology needed.

[Vipers]

stripy7 said:

Vipers said:

Disastrous said:

mp3manager said:

In a nutshell, the people who ignored the cabin crew and acted on instinct, survived.

Firstly, sorry to hear all that.

Secondly, I've heard the quoted part of your post mentioned a few times by various experts. Enough times certainly, to make me feel like my best chance of surviving a situation is by doing what I think best, not what I'm told.

Imteresting and thanks for posting.

Tend to agree, Piper Alpha disaster, some of the survivors did what they felt was the right thing to do. Generally though I think it's a bit of give and take. With a plane, the pilot and crew know what's happening, they know which emergency doors to operate, don't want exiting on to a burning wing. All said and done there is no easy answer, just hope I never to find out.

No the perceived wisdom at the time was no one could survive a jump into the sea from an oil platform. Some of the commercial divers who ignored this survived as they knew how to enter water from height - toes pointed, hand over face preventing water going up nose and blasting back of scull off.

Not sure where your coming from, some of the divers jumped from the spider deck, as far as hand over face, pinch nose, grip life jacket is basic offshore survival training. It's difficult to point toes in rig boots, as far as jumping from anywhere, let alone the helipad your right it wasn't even thought of. Correct procedure was to go to your designated lifeboat.

Some who either couldn't or didn't , survived, anyway back to the 777 incident.

[Thankyou4calling]

I recently attended my brothers wedding, he's a BA engineer and most(about 10) of his crew were there.

To say these guys know what they are doing and are meticulous in all areas of their work is an understatement. They take their jobs VERY seriously and any breakage, damage or accident no matter how small is investigated and if at fault systems and procedures are changed.

They all had on average 20 years service and as an example, my brothers photographer was one of the team. For a hobby he took photos of planes, recently went on holiday..... Plane spotting! That's how much they are into things so a BA event like this is taken seriously and personally.

As an aside the guy also had an M3 (bought new 6 years ago and on 14,000 miles) to say it was maintained and cleaned to within a millimetre of its life would be an understatement!

[Sonic]

Willy Nilly said:

Sonic said:

I'm not sure if anybody else has read this on the BBC about people taking luggage - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34191035

Some of the user comments from people at the bottom of the article are pretty bad...

"Damn right I would take my hand luggage. My passport would be in there, all my contacts and insurance documents too. Without which I'm stuffed and potentially trapped if the plane burns to a crisp." - Gary Sanders, Brighton, UK

Great... so you'd consciously risk your own life and that of others just to prevent a bit of inconvenience afterwards. tt.

It is a valid point though, what are you to do when they get destroyed on the plane? You have been through the checks to get on the plane, are you then ok to get on the next one they send, or is it a case of "sorry mate, no passport, you'll have to stay here?

I assume airlines have procedures for incidents like this, if it was widely know what happens when your plane catches fire people might not be in such a hurry to collect their belongings.

My thoughts would be of survival for myself, my family and anybody else in the plane rather than my luggage. I wouldn't have given my passport or wallet a first thought as i value life more and would not expect to be left hung out to dry by BA or the UK embassy given the circumstances.

Yes i'm sure the following couple of days would have been a complete pain in the ass, but i'd likely be alive and hopefully so would everybody else on the plane as a result of a swift evacuation. I certainly couldn't bare the thought of somebody else at the back of the queue burning to death or suffocating because i fancied saving myself a bit of ball-ache.

KTF said:

The first (of many probably) videos from inside have appeared: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdKN9AehCFQ

I think faced with the clear view of both billowing black smoked and flames pouring from the side of the aircraft i would not have complied with the request to "stay seated". I'd have been trying to get myself and loved ones as far away as possible with the 1985 disaster clearly in my mind, despite any request to do otherwise or any cock-socket blocking the aisles and rummaging in the overhead lockers for their cases.

[El Guapo]

saaby93 said:

kapiteinlangzaam said:

essayer said:

GE engines according to pprune.
Looks nasty, I wonder if this will be another write-off:

100% a write off IMO. It looks to have melted all sorts of important structural stuff.
Old airframe too.

Although it says engine fire - the engine looks less damaged than the fuselage

I have been wondering about this, the engine is a fair distance from the fuselage too. In the picture posted earlier the flames look to be inboard of the engine.
Congratulations to flight crew, cabin crew and airport fire services.

[Blaster72]

El Guapo said:

I have been wondering about this, the engine is a fair distance from the fuselage too. In the picture posted earlier the flames look to be inboard of the engine.
Congratulations to flight crew, cabin crew and airport fire services.

There's another photo from behind that shows the extent of the damage to the inboard side of the engine, there's also one from onboard showing the fuel pooling under the area of fuselage that has been damaged.

[Blaster72]

[creampuff]

Willy Nilly said:

It is a valid point though, what are you to do when they get destroyed on the plane? You have been through the checks to get on the plane, are you then ok to get on the next one they send, or is it a case of "sorry mate, no passport, you'll have to stay here?

I assume airlines have procedures for incidents like this, if it was widely know what happens when your plane catches fire people might not be in such a hurry to collect their belongings.

Who really gives a fk? The point is you are alive and everybody else is also alive. Any subsequent inconvenience would be sorted out in a week at the most. Get real, what is preferable: either a week of inconvenience or a eternity of being dead?

[Starfighter]

kapiteinlangzaam said:

Starfighter said:

Bags have been material to the cause of a crash in the past, admittedly in this case it would appear not.

Sorry, could you provide a link to a case where a passengers bag has caused the crash of a commercial airliner?

(Hiding a bomb in a bag doesnt count).

I did not say cause, I said material to the cause. Case in point Air Midwest 5481 was overloaded which contributed to the accident but did not cause it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Midwest_Flight_5...

[Puggit]

Crush said:

I heard that nail clippers and hand cream could be fatal to an aircraft

You forgot the baby food

[Vipers]

Starfighter said:

kapiteinlangzaam said:

Starfighter said:

Bags have been material to the cause of a crash in the past, admittedly in this case it would appear not.

Sorry, could you provide a link to a case where a passengers bag has caused the crash of a commercial airliner?

(Hiding a bomb in a bag doesnt count).

I did not say cause, I said material to the cause. Case in point Air Midwest 5481 was overloaded which contributed to the accident but did not cause it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Midwest_Flight_5...

Interesting, it says "580 pounds (264 kg) above its maximum allowable take-off weigh", thats like 4 people, thanks for the link.

I am wondering how do they know the all up weight of the passengers, taking into account certain countries seem to have a lot of FB's travelling these days.

[bitchstewie]

Vipers said:

I am wondering how do they know the all up weight of the passengers, taking into account certain countries seem to have a lot of FB's travelling these days.

Averages.

There was a plane crash years ago where 250 troops died where weight played a part because things are calculated around averages and assumptions and in that case it didn't factor in that servicemen tend to be quite large and carry quite a lot.

[WD39]

Vipers said:

Starfighter said:

kapiteinlangzaam said:

Starfighter said:

Bags have been material to the cause of a crash in the past, admittedly in this case it would appear not.

Sorry, could you provide a link to a case where a passengers bag has caused the crash of a commercial airliner?

(Hiding a bomb in a bag doesnt count).

I did not say cause, I said material to the cause. Case in point Air Midwest 5481 was overloaded which contributed to the accident but did not cause it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Midwest_Flight_5...

Interesting, it says "580 pounds (264 kg) above its maximum allowable take-off weigh", thats like 4 people, thanks for the link.

I am wondering how do they know the all up weight of the passengers, taking into account certain countries seem to have a lot of FB's travelling these days.

Passengers are weighted with an average. eg Male pax 80kg female pax 55 kg etc. This calculation is reassesed from time to time.

I seem to recall that the light aircraft that crashed in the Bahamas, killing the singer Alliyah, was overwight with baggage on take off so unable to gain altitude.

As a former BA cabin crew member, I must praise the crew in Las Vegas for a sucessful evacuation.

We were rigorously checked on safety procedures anually and even in the mock-up with fake smoke and background noise conducting a mock evacuation, there was always a sense of nervy anticipation when awaiting the evacuation alarm which was the signal to start the drills.

BTW this evacuation alarm can clearly be heard on the radio clips as the captain is talking to the tower.

Any crew member is permitted to initiate the evac alarm if, when asessing the situation,it is 'clearly catastrophic'.