UK smoking ban for those born after 2009

[otolith]

I wonder if this will survive challenge on equalities and human rights arguments once it actually has the effect of arbitrarily restricting the rights of one group of adults on the basis of age.

[JackJarvis]

On paper it seems reasonable, nobody wants young people to take up smoking so a ban seems like a great move.

Back in the real world if somebody wants to smoke they'll still do it, we're just removing a legal, tax generating way for them to do so.

If anything it might increase the popularity of smoking with young people. Banning an 18 year old from doing something is a wonderful incentive for them to do it.

Time will tell I suppose.

[smn159]

Terminator X said:

No doubt you look forward to a whole plethora of laws telling you what to do hand wringers unite!

TX.

While on the subject of hand wringing, the outrage about this sounds very similar to when smoking in pubs was banned a few years ago.

The world didn't end then and nor will it as a result of this

[isaldiri]

Dagnir said:

It is strange to see the modern left so dead set on chipping away at our freedom and doing so whilst acting blind (or self deluding) to where this road leads.

I'll simply never understand people that want less freedom. Is it short-sighted arrogance because it doesn't affect them? Some other desire for stability/safety because they feel vulnerable and feel out of control? (Govern me harder daddy etc...)

Same with people that don't believe in freedom of speech....I simply do not understand how anyone can objectively think like that.

It's almost the inverse of how it was when i was younger. I always recall the left wanting more liberty than the right but that boat has sailed (and sank) a long time ago.

The full 180 switch is most bizarre.

I don't think it's a question of 'right/left' that is driving this tbh. neither group has shown a tendency to care about people being free to make choices of their own instead of being told what to be doing. Given that it rather helpfully plays into people feeling smug about being able to prevent others from something that they believe to be morally deficient to be doing, it's unfortunately not a surprise at all that politicians of all stripes are entirely happy to indulge that tendency in all manner of ways these days.

[smn159]

I'm left wondering what the correlation is between those libertarians who are outraged that young people might not be free to develop a nicotine habit, and those who want to curtain the freedoms of others to start a new life in the UK?

Is there a list somewhere of good and bad freedoms?

[S600BSB]

smn159 said:

I'm left wondering what the correlation is between those libertarians who are outraged that young people might not be free to develop a nicotine habit, and those who want to curtain the freedoms of others to start a new life in the UK?

Is there a list somewhere of good and bad freedoms?

Very good.

[bitchstewie]

Terminator X said:

bhstewie said:

paulw123 said:

My thoughts too, imagine being angry your children couldn't ruin their health and shorten their life expectancy smoking. Odd.
It won't affect anyone who's taken up smoking legally anyway.

You can just imagine the pep talk can't you.

"Well son it's your choice if you want to shorten your life expectancy and risk getting Lung Cancer. You know how I feel about all this woke nanny state bullst"

Just weird.

No doubt you look forward to a whole plethora of laws telling you what to do hand wringers unite!

TX.

We already have laws.

The idea that being OK with smoking being slowly phased out makes me a "hand wringer" is pretty bizarre tbh.

[Disastrous]

I find myself surprised to be in agreement with the segment of PH I usually don’t see eye to eye with.

I’m dead against this.

I have young kids and obviously don’t want them smoking. But I want to do that through education. Not regulation.

I grew up in the 90’s and remember well buying cigarettes for 20p from the ice cream van at the school gates. But I was sensible enough to leave it at teen experimentation and I want my kids to be too.

You don’t learn anything at all about judgement/choice/right/wrong if you devolve decision making to the state.

Some people will still make the ‘wrong’ choice but it’s their choice to make.

A poster above called this a ‘freedom’. It isn’t at all. There’s no freedom without choice.

Quite apart from this being the thin end of the wedge, we are just teaching kids that the state knows best. And it clearly doesn’t!

[CheesecakeRunner]

Donbot said:

18 YEAR OLDS AREN'T CHILDREN! ffs

Is it only me that understands that this is about stopping ADULTS from legally buying cigarettes?

The 2009 cutoff is someone who is currently 15. This is very much about stopping CHILDREN buying cigarettes. So they they won't become addicted adults.

[S600BSB]

Dagnir said:

It is strange to see the modern left so dead set on chipping away at our freedom and doing so whilst acting blind (or self deluding) to where this road leads.


I'll simply never understand people that want less freedom. Is it short-sighted arrogance because it doesn't affect them? Some other desire for stability/safety because they feel vulnerable and feel out of control? (Govern me harder daddy etc...)


Same with people that don't believe in freedom of speech....I simply do not understand how anyone can objectively think like that.


It's almost the inverse of how it was when i was younger. I always recall the left wanting more liberty than the right but that boat has sailed (and sank) a long time ago.


The full 180 switch is most bizarre.

I thought the same about the lunacy of Brexit - why on earth would you want to give up freedoms to move/work in 27 different EU countries. Crazy.

[bodhi]

smn159 said:

I'm left wondering what the correlation is between those libertarians who are outraged that young people might not be free to develop a nicotine habit, and those who want to curtain the freedoms of others to start a new life in the UK?

Is there a list somewhere of good and bad freedoms?

Not entirely sure what that has to do with the price of cheese, but if someone wants to start a new life in the UK, I have no interest in curtaining their freedoms.

Sounds unpleasant.

I am noticing a correlation between those enjoying yesterday's decision with those who also enjoyed Farage's conference being shut down on the same day. Thankfully the Belgian PM was a bit more sensible and thoroughly pissed on the censorious mob's chips.

Now I've mentioned two not entirely healthy foods there - don't get any ideas you puritanical fussbuckets.

[Donbot]

CheesecakeRunner said:

Donbot said:

18 YEAR OLDS AREN'T CHILDREN! ffs

Is it only me that understands that this is about stopping ADULTS from legally buying cigarettes?

The 2009 cutoff is someone who is currently 15. This is very much about stopping CHILDREN buying cigarettes. So they they won't become addicted adults.

Then you will be pleased to know that you have to be 18 to buy cigarettes in the UK.

[carlo996]

Dave200 said:

The UK has one of the lowest rates of knife crime and violent crime in the world, and "county lines" is a phrase invented to scare middle aged white people. Try taking a day off from the Daily Mail.

This is a really popular policy that has cross party voter support in a majority, and will make a meaningful different to health. If you'd rather dribble on about unrelated stuff that's your antiestablishment prerogative.

Great, so on one hand your moral crusade to prevent adults from smoking for the benefit of 'health', theirs I take it, doesn't extend the benefits of stopping people being stabbed?

the internet said:

How many stabbings are there in London?
The number of knife or sharp instrument offences recorded by the police in London rose to approximately 12,786 in 2022/23

You're in cloud cuckoo land if you don't think county lines is a problem. I'll wager I have a lot more personal experience in having to deal with drug addicted people, violent dealers, and general scum of the earth than most, and the carnage I have seen makes a smoking ban look ridiculous. It's a desperate act by a useless leader trying anything to generate positive headlines. Smoking will continue, the black market will light up (ho ho) and it'll change little...apart from opening the floodgates and allowing weak minded fools to knacker the personal freedoms that so many fought for.

As has been said many time already people like you seem happy to give up personal freedoms. And the obvious question is why? When big brother comes knocking at your door to impose it's will on your intake of alcohol, processed food, red meat, driving, sports, pet ownership......

But you won't mind will you, because whatever the Government say you'll be a good little citizen and tow the party line...for the greater good right?

Deluded you are.

Edited by carlo996 on Wednesday 17th April 11:43

[carlo996]

Dagnir said:

Oliver Hardy said:

This is misleading, the 17 billion figure is cost to society and where do you get the 3.5 billion from?

Smoking costs the NHS around £2.5 billion a year
https://www.brunel.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/arti...

Alcohol costs the NHS around £3.5 billion and the cost to society is £21 billion
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/04/st...

Cost of obesity to the NHS is around £6.4 billion and £27 billion to society
https://healthmedia.blog.gov.uk/2023/06/07/governm...

Car and van pollution costs the NHS £6 billion
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2018-06-06-pollution-car...

Edited by Oliver Hardy on Tuesday 16th April 22:49

Inconvenient facts for the bias of those in favour of removing liberty.

The bigger picture is lost on them.

[BoRED S2upid]

Terminator X said:

As I said last time this came up, how will they police it? If it was law now then in 10 years time 25 year olds could not buy cigs but 26 year olds would be able to.

TX.

Exactly. It won’t ever be policed it’s pointless and I’m not a fan of laws banning everything we do what next banning McDonald’s to save fat people? Banning cannabis, cocaine? Booze?

[Dingu]

Quite excited to see the impact of so many people being in favour of legalisation of drugs all of a sudden. Should boost the idea of cannabis being legalised if not more drugs.

[isaldiri]

Dingu said:

Quite excited to see the impact of so many people being in favour of legalisation of drugs all of a sudden. Should boost the idea of cannabis being legalised if not more drugs.

they absolutely should be yes.

[Castrol for a knave]

An interesting one.

I can understand why the government would want to push a ban - a government has a responsibility to ensure the health of its population - this I suspect is very much the thinking behind patrician Tories and socially conscious left who have sponsored this legislation.

I also suspect it is in reality, a case of long term social engineering, than enforceable legislation.

You Gov (in Reuters) suggests support for a total or the 2009 ban is 53%, with 24% against any ban.


Will of da peeple innit?

Personally, you're a moron if you smoke - the idea of putting that st inside you and have breath like hot dogst does not appeal. Especially having had to care for relatives who died of lung cancer. However, it's your choice, and even as a handwringing lefty, I'd support your decision to turn your insides to black poo.

[stuckmojo]

carlo996 said:

You're in cloud cuckoo land if you don't think county lines is a problem. I'll wager I have a lot more personal experience in having to deal with drug addicted people, violent dealers, and general scum of the earth than most, and the carnage I have seen makes a smoking ban look ridiculous. It's a desperate act by a useless leader trying anything to generate positive headlines. Smoking will continue, the black market will light up (ho ho) and it'll change little...apart from opening the floodgates and allowing weak minded fools to knacker the personal freedoms that so many fought for.

As has been said many time already people like you seem happy to give up personal freedoms. And the obvious question is why? When big brother comes knocking at your door to impose it's will on your intake of alcohol, processed food, red meat, driving, sports, pet ownership......

But you won't mind will you, because whatever the Government say you'll be a good little citizen and tow the party line...for the greater good right?

Deluded you are.

Edited by carlo996 on Wednesday 17th April 11:43

Word.

[Mr Penguin]

Dingu said:

Quite excited to see the impact of so many people being in favour of legalisation of drugs all of a sudden. Should boost the idea of cannabis being legalised if not more drugs.

Start with things like cannabis and gradually expand it. Prohibition and extremely strict regulations / extremely high tax rates just puts all the money from sales into the hands of criminals, which is a bad thing to do.