Climate Cat out of the Bag? Potentially dynamite revelations
Discussion
turbobloke said:
ludo said:
turbobloke said:
Worth noting perhaps:
Climate Audit article by Steve McIntyre May 28th, 2008
Claimed e-mail in the UEA CRU hack file May 29th, 2008
however if you wanted to forge some email correspondence, that is just the sort of detail you would put in, using publicly available information, just to add a little verisimilitude. A bit like adding emails from Steve MacInyre, who publishes a lot of his email correspondence with people like Phil Jones anyway. The idea that Phil Jones reads Climate Audit seems a little far fetched if you ask me!Climate Audit article by Steve McIntyre May 28th, 2008
Claimed e-mail in the UEA CRU hack file May 29th, 2008
To ludo.
See 0905 post.
This would need to be fake also.
The director of Britain’s leading Climate Research Unit, Phil Jones, has told Investigate magazine’s TGIF Edition tonight that his organization has been hacked, and the data flying all over the internet appears to be genuine.
In an exclusive interview, Jones told TGIF, “It was a hacker. We were aware of this about three or four days ago that someone had hacked into our system and taken and copied loads of data files and emails.”
“Have you alerted police”
“Not yet. We were not aware of what had been taken.”
Jones says he was first tipped off to the security breach by colleagues at the website RealClimate.
“Real Climate were given information, but took it down off their site and told me they would send it across to me. They didn’t do that. I only found out it had been released five minutes ago.”
As Guam and myself and others are remaining cautious but realistic about this, your own uncritically loyal defence seems out of place. If you tie yourself to that view and the ship goes down you will sink without trace.
See 0905 post.
This would need to be fake also.
The director of Britain’s leading Climate Research Unit, Phil Jones, has told Investigate magazine’s TGIF Edition tonight that his organization has been hacked, and the data flying all over the internet appears to be genuine.
In an exclusive interview, Jones told TGIF, “It was a hacker. We were aware of this about three or four days ago that someone had hacked into our system and taken and copied loads of data files and emails.”
“Have you alerted police”
“Not yet. We were not aware of what had been taken.”
Jones says he was first tipped off to the security breach by colleagues at the website RealClimate.
“Real Climate were given information, but took it down off their site and told me they would send it across to me. They didn’t do that. I only found out it had been released five minutes ago.”
As Guam and myself and others are remaining cautious but realistic about this, your own uncritically loyal defence seems out of place. If you tie yourself to that view and the ship goes down you will sink without trace.
ludo said:
turbobloke said:
Worth noting perhaps:
Climate Audit article by Steve McIntyre May 28th, 2008
Claimed e-mail in the UEA CRU hack file May 29th, 2008
however if you wanted to forge some email correspondence, that is just the sort of detail you would put in, using publicly available information, just to add a little verisimilitude. A bit like adding emails from Steve MacInyre, who publishes a lot of his email correspondence with people like Phil Jones anyway. The idea that Phil Jones reads Climate Audit seems a little far fetched if you ask me!Climate Audit article by Steve McIntyre May 28th, 2008
Claimed e-mail in the UEA CRU hack file May 29th, 2008
Guam said:
ludo said:
turbobloke said:
Worth noting perhaps:
Climate Audit article by Steve McIntyre May 28th, 2008
Claimed e-mail in the UEA CRU hack file May 29th, 2008
however if you wanted to forge some email correspondence, that is just the sort of detail you would put in, using publicly available information, just to add a little verisimilitude. A bit like adding emails from Steve MacInyre, who publishes a lot of his email correspondence with people like Phil Jones anyway. The idea that Phil Jones reads Climate Audit seems a little far fetched if you ask me!Climate Audit article by Steve McIntyre May 28th, 2008
Claimed e-mail in the UEA CRU hack file May 29th, 2008
ETA It would suggest that if forged then the "Forger" has to be a player well versed in Science, the debate and the english language however, Russian Hackers do not normally fit this bill though?
This is the problem with a leak of this nature, it is hard to prove that it isn't a forgery, and it is equally hard to prove it is; any proof that it is a forgery from the CRU/Hadley will just be met by claims of a cover up. I wouldn't believe such a story if it were Spencer, Christy, Pielke etc that were the target, simply because it can't be clearly refuted even if it is false.
turbobloke said:
To ludo.
See 0905 post.
This would need to be fake also.
The director of Britain’s leading Climate Research Unit, Phil Jones, has told Investigate magazine’s TGIF Edition tonight that his organization has been hacked, and the data flying all over the internet appears to be genuine.
In an exclusive interview, Jones told TGIF, “It was a hacker. We were aware of this about three or four days ago that someone had hacked into our system and taken and copied loads of data files and emails.”
“Have you alerted police”
“Not yet. We were not aware of what had been taken.”
Jones says he was first tipped off to the security breach by colleagues at the website RealClimate.
“Real Climate were given information, but took it down off their site and told me they would send it across to me. They didn’t do that. I only found out it had been released five minutes ago.”
As Guam and myself and others are remaining cautious but realistic about this, your own uncritically loyal defence seems out of place. If you tie yourself to that view and the ship goes down you will sink without trace.
I don't believe that for a minute either. Most academics know better than to talk on a matter like this other than through the press office, and I rather doubt he would have gone to an outlet such as that one. A carefully worded notice on the CRU website would be a much more likely first comment on the issue.See 0905 post.
This would need to be fake also.
The director of Britain’s leading Climate Research Unit, Phil Jones, has told Investigate magazine’s TGIF Edition tonight that his organization has been hacked, and the data flying all over the internet appears to be genuine.
In an exclusive interview, Jones told TGIF, “It was a hacker. We were aware of this about three or four days ago that someone had hacked into our system and taken and copied loads of data files and emails.”
“Have you alerted police”
“Not yet. We were not aware of what had been taken.”
Jones says he was first tipped off to the security breach by colleagues at the website RealClimate.
“Real Climate were given information, but took it down off their site and told me they would send it across to me. They didn’t do that. I only found out it had been released five minutes ago.”
As Guam and myself and others are remaining cautious but realistic about this, your own uncritically loyal defence seems out of place. If you tie yourself to that view and the ship goes down you will sink without trace.
It isn't uncritical loyalty, if it were Spencer, Christy et el that were the targets, I would be expecting it to be a hoax as well. As I have pointed out if you wanted to indulge in a bit of scientific fraud, you would do it on a topic such as cloning, where such advances are pretty likely to be reproducable in a few years anyway (in which case there is a chance you will get away with it). You would have to be bloody stupid to do so with climate change, as if you know it is bulls
t, you will be proved wrong by the climate within your own lifetime, so there is little to gain (other than a prison sentence for fraud).ludo said:
turbobloke said:
To ludo.
See 0905 post.
This would need to be fake also.
The director of Britain’s leading Climate Research Unit, Phil Jones, has told Investigate magazine’s TGIF Edition tonight that his organization has been hacked, and the data flying all over the internet appears to be genuine.
In an exclusive interview, Jones told TGIF, “It was a hacker. We were aware of this about three or four days ago that someone had hacked into our system and taken and copied loads of data files and emails.”
“Have you alerted police”
“Not yet. We were not aware of what had been taken.”
Jones says he was first tipped off to the security breach by colleagues at the website RealClimate.
“Real Climate were given information, but took it down off their site and told me they would send it across to me. They didn’t do that. I only found out it had been released five minutes ago.”
As Guam and myself and others are remaining cautious but realistic about this, your own uncritically loyal defence seems out of place. If you tie yourself to that view and the ship goes down you will sink without trace.
I don't believe that for a minute either. Most academics know better than to talk on a matter like this other than through the press office, and I rather doubt he would have gone to an outlet such as that one. A carefully worded notice on the CRU website would be a much more likely first comment on the issue.See 0905 post.
This would need to be fake also.
The director of Britain’s leading Climate Research Unit, Phil Jones, has told Investigate magazine’s TGIF Edition tonight that his organization has been hacked, and the data flying all over the internet appears to be genuine.
In an exclusive interview, Jones told TGIF, “It was a hacker. We were aware of this about three or four days ago that someone had hacked into our system and taken and copied loads of data files and emails.”
“Have you alerted police”
“Not yet. We were not aware of what had been taken.”
Jones says he was first tipped off to the security breach by colleagues at the website RealClimate.
“Real Climate were given information, but took it down off their site and told me they would send it across to me. They didn’t do that. I only found out it had been released five minutes ago.”
As Guam and myself and others are remaining cautious but realistic about this, your own uncritically loyal defence seems out of place. If you tie yourself to that view and the ship goes down you will sink without trace.
It isn't uncritical loyalty, if it were Spencer, Christy et el that were the targets, I would be expecting it to be a hoax as well. As I have pointed out if you wanted to indulge in a bit of scientific fraud, you would do it on a topic such as cloning, where such advances are pretty likely to be reproducable in a few years anyway (in which case there is a chance you will get away with it). You would have to be bloody stupid to do so with climate change, as if you know it is bulls
t, you will be proved wrong by the climate within your own lifetime, so there is little to gain (other than a prison sentence for fraud).We must wait and see.
If fake, somebody has gone to a MASSIVE amount of trouble over this.
turbobloke said:
AshVX220 said:
I'm trying not to get to excited about it yet though, there are too many powerful people and organisations that will do whatever it takes to continue leading the public down this particular path. Don't under-estimate the power of spin.
Seems likely they'll want to "Do A True Believer" and say blah blah then lie low for a while before popping up again as if nothing happened.If true, this though may be a bit too much for that time-worn twostep.
ludo said:
An occasional individual scientist does that sort of thing, but an organized conspiracy? Not likely.
But they may not be working on a conspiracy, they may just be doing what they are asked by governments based on a political. On the big debate thread:ludo said:
it is not unreasonable for them [governments] to ask the scientists to investigate such a scenario and make projections based on their best understanding of the physics (as built into the models).
So maybe that's exactly what they have done, but as the data doesn't support the wishes of the pay masters people may have become more "flexible" with interpretation.Just a thought.
However, I agree that until there is any voracity on the provenance of this material it is all speculation.
It's Weapons of Mass Destruction all over again....
It does a diservice to the arguement either way, Governemts just need to 'fess up, tell us they are getting us off the strategic fuels for geo-political reasons and resign themselves to the fact they can't make money out of it now.
Were they bullstting all along? (or just redacting the inconvenient bits together - like a conspiracy but, well, scientific)
Are they victims of a well planned and detailed forgery? As ever, cui bono?
It does a diservice to the arguement either way, Governemts just need to 'fess up, tell us they are getting us off the strategic fuels for geo-political reasons and resign themselves to the fact they can't make money out of it now.
Were they bulls
tting all along? (or just redacting the inconvenient bits together - like a conspiracy but, well, scientific)Are they victims of a well planned and detailed forgery? As ever, cui bono?
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