Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result (Vol 2)

[sidicks]

alfie2244 said:

There will be a catch, a twist or an absolute denial at some point you mark my words

B'stard Child was commenting on my misquote of ///adj, now corrected!!

[///ajd]

sidicks said:

///ajd said:

Yes. Still a choice though. Our choice. Our choice as a sovereign state. British Parliaments choice.

Nothing to do with the EU.

"The EU made us have freedom of movement so we had no choice". Nonsense. Always our choice.

And look how well May did in reducing non-EU migration down to 10,000 or whatever it was supposed to be. Didn't get the number down much, did she? Now why do we think that was?

Turns out migration works for this country - but shhhhhhh! - we're not allowed to say so or we might lose some votes!

Some migration works. But not all, hence controlling immigration makes sense.

HTH

Can you clarify which migration doesn't work for you, and why?

And why our ability to deport any EU immigrants after X months if they have not found work is not sufficient to address such problems?

[B'stard Child]

sidicks said:

alfie2244 said:

There will be a catch, a twist or an absolute denial at some point you mark my words

B'stard Child was commenting on my misquote of ///adj, now corrected!!

Now why is it acceptable for you to go back and correct your error when so many don't bother and just ignore it - this sort of honesty in discussion will not do at all!!!



I guess I have to go and fix the quoted copy now.........

[Deptford Draylons]

///ajd said:

Can you clarify which migration doesn't work for you, and why?

And why our ability to deport any EU immigrants after X months if they have not found work is not sufficient to address such problems?

Remind us again how many have been deported using this method.
Odd that you now want people rounded up and kicked out the country forcibly. Have you considered joining Ukip, I'm not sure they right wing enough for you but it may be a start.
Excuse me if I file this as another one of your idiotic ideas like the one about voting to stay, delivering the EU the vote they want and then they will renegotiate after Cameron failed for 2 years and under the threat of a referendum. Not to mention you high proof bar of stating the Nissan boss got a deal of per car compensation if facing tariffs on the basis he was smiling to awaiting photographers at number 10.

Consider taking a break from your year long ravings on the subject.

Edited by Deptford Draylons on Wednesday 30th November 01:15

[davepoth]

///ajd said:

Yes. Still a choice though. Our choice. Our choice as a sovereign state. British Parliaments choice.

It's not though. The government could pump billions into a border service and stop all immigration from outside the EU, but immigration would still be around or above 500,000 due to free EU immigration picking up the slack. Until you have control of all immigration, there's no point attempting to control some of it.

[B'stard Child]

davepoth said:

///ajd said:

Yes. Still a choice though. Our choice. Our choice as a sovereign state. British Parliaments choice.

It's not though. The government could pump billions into a border service and stop all immigration from outside the EU, but immigration would still be around or above 500,000 due to free EU immigration picking up the slack. Until you have control of all immigration, there's no point attempting to control some of it.

It's a bit like trying to water the garden with a hose that has 100 leaks in it

You put your finger over the end to direct the water to where it needs to go and it finds an alternative route to where you didn't want it to go....

It still waters the garden but maybe not the bits that needed water...

There was an advert that put it even better



It's still a motoring forum right?

Edited by B'stard Child on Wednesday 30th November 00:30

[Deptford Draylons]

///ajd said:

This is Tusks letter.



Has anyone seen Tomlinsons letter?

Fox's own rants on the subject can't have helped.

What a fantastically pissy reply. It reads like it was written by you, ///ajd. By that I mean it has an condescending smug tone about it and contains no real answer.
Odd that not even Ukip ( the Nazi party for much of the remain voters on PH ) campaigned on the issue of status for current EU residents here in the referendum, but that now it seems to be held up by those outside of the UK who may be keen to have some uncertainty and play a little football with it. I thought it was something both sides would quickly acknowledge common ground on and signal this would happen.

[anonymous-user]

///ajd knows nothing about immigration policy. I do - I spend a lot of time negotiating with the HO to get non EU citizens into the country - it's incredibly difficult sometimes. It's even more difficult to remove them once they're here -this applies to both EU and non EU.

///ajd has no idea of these things - he said yesterday that May's target for immigration was/is 10000. We all know it isn't of course. It's just more bullst he makes up.

This country was basically forced by the EU to take "refugees" (some were "children") from both Syria and Calais. We do not have full control over our non EU immigration policy.

[b2hbm]

jsf said:

///ajd said:

This is Tusks letter.



Has anyone seen Tomlinsons letter?
Fox's own rants on the subject can't have helped.

Is it just me that reads that letter and thinks its written by a 16 year old student?
It's hardly statesman like.

Nope, I thought the same, a bit 4th-form level. In fact I'm still not sure it's a wind-up that //ajd wrote himself.

[Elysium]

bmw535i said:

///ajd knows nothing about immigration policy. I do - I spend a lot of time negotiating with the HO to get non EU citizens into the country - it's incredibly difficult sometimes. It's even more difficult to remove them once they're here -this applies to both EU and non EU.

///ajd has no idea of these things - he said yesterday that May's target for immigration was/is 10000. We all know it isn't of course. It's just more bullst he makes up.

This country was basically forced by the EU to take "refugees" (some were "children") from both Syria and Calais. We do not have full control over our non EU immigration policy.

I find it unbelievably sad that we have to be 'forced' to take in refugees from Syria. A country that has been virtually destroyed.

Why the quotes around 'refugees' .. do you think Syria is a safe place to live? If you were Syrian would you not try to get out for a better life?

Anyone born in the UK in the last 50 years has essentially won the lottery. We have the opportunity to live in peace, access to amazing healthcare, opportunities for social mobility and incredibly high living standards.

It's perfectly understandable that people would like some of those opportunities. I have no problem with that, provided that they contribute to society.

[768]

jsf said:

///ajd said:

This is Tusks letter.



Has anyone seen Tomlinsons letter?

Fox's own rants on the subject can't have helped.

Is it just me that reads that letter and thinks its written by a 16 year old student?
It's hardly statesman like.

It reminds me of when you tell a (poor) used car salesman what your limit is and that as he's above it you'll have to leave it... he'll phone back and accept, but he's going to bh about it.

[768]

Elysium said:

I find it unbelievably sad that we have to be 'forced' to take in refugees from Syria. A country that has been virtually destroyed.

I find it unbelievably sad that there's nowhere suitable between Syria and the UK.

[rscott]

Fastdruid said:

B'stard Child said:

Oh and the NHS won't get 350m a day sorry it won't

It never was going to. It's not even what the bus said (although admittedly it insinuated it). Although it's seems what plenty of remainers would have liked it to say.

If I'm honest I'm somewhat in awe of the person behind the bus. From a campaign POV it is amazing. Even now, 5 months after the result and people can't stop talking about it. From the colour to the wording that was blatantly wrong yet in it's wrongness at best the argument could be made that it was still a lot of money. It was an absolute masterpiece.

The bus may not have said it, but the official posters used by the leave campaign most certainly did (posted on here earlier, I think).

[anonymous-user]

Elysium said:

I find it unbelievably sad that we have to be 'forced' to take in refugees from Syria. A country that has been virtually destroyed.

Why the quotes around 'refugees' .. do you think Syria is a safe place to live? If you were Syrian would you not try to get out for a better life?

Anyone born in the UK in the last 50 years has essentially won the lottery. We have the opportunity to live in peace, access to amazing healthcare, opportunities for social mobility and incredibly high living standards.

It's perfectly understandable that people would like some of those opportunities. I have no problem with that, provided that they contribute to society.

1. I say "refugees" because the line between refugee and economic migrant is often blurred.
2. No I wouldn't leave, same as I wouldn't leave here if we were at war.
3. Not everyone born here is living in this utopia you speak of.
4. Not all immigrants contribute to our society - I deal with this regularly. They cannot be deported easily and in the meantime pending judicial review etc they cannot work or claim benefits. They can still use the NHS and commit crime though - sometimes leading to expensive prison stays.
5. Not everyone born here in the last 50 years gets automatic citizenship.

None of these views are racist, they're just facts which I have experience of.

[paulrockliffe]

When are Corgi bringing out a model of The Bus? I know I'd buy one.

[saabster14]

bmw535i said:

1. I say "refugees" because the line between refugee and economic migrant is often blurred.
2. No I wouldn't leave, same as I wouldn't leave here if we were at war.
3. Not everyone born here is living in this utopia you speak of.
4. Not all immigrants contribute to our society - I deal with this regularly. They cannot be deported easily and in the meantime pending judicial review etc they cannot work or claim benefits. They can still use the NHS and commit crime though - sometimes leading to expensive prison stays.
5. Not everyone born here in the last 50 years gets automatic citizenship.

None of these views are racist, they're just facts which I have experience of.

I don't think you were accused of being racist, just being a bit harsh

[don4l]

rscott said:

Fastdruid said:

B'stard Child said:

Oh and the NHS won't get 350m a day sorry it won't

It never was going to. It's not even what the bus said (although admittedly it insinuated it). Although it's seems what plenty of remainers would have liked it to say.

If I'm honest I'm somewhat in awe of the person behind the bus. From a campaign POV it is amazing. Even now, 5 months after the result and people can't stop talking about it. From the colour to the wording that was blatantly wrong yet in it's wrongness at best the argument could be made that it was still a lot of money. It was an absolute masterpiece.

The bus may not have said it, but the official posters used by the leave campaign most certainly did (posted on here earlier, I think).

The bus certaintly won the campaign.

Masterful advertising.

This poster was also quite good.

[AW111]

saabster14 said:

I don't think you were accused of being racist, just being a bit harsh

The cry of "you are calling me a racist" is a get-out-of-jail card for some posters on this thread.
They see allegations of racism in the mildest question.

[danllama]

paulrockliffe said:

When are Corgi bringing out a model of The Bus? I know I'd buy one.

Maybe after Brexit?

[saabster14]

AW111 said:

The cry of "you are calling me a racist" is a get-out-of-jail card for some posters on this thread.
They see allegations of racism in the mildest question.

it's the new "I'm not a racist but..."