The Wasted Vote
Discussion
Globs said:
AJS- said:
eharding said:
Who do you propose that Farage would have with him in the negotiating team?
International negotiations are invariably huge team efforts, inevitable given the minute scrutiny of detail and background work required.
At least 95% of the talking is done before the principals ever get into a room face-to-face.
Who, for example, is the current UKIP Foreign Affairs spokesman?
What are we negotiating? And who with? International negotiations are invariably huge team efforts, inevitable given the minute scrutiny of detail and background work required.
At least 95% of the talking is done before the principals ever get into a room face-to-face.
Who, for example, is the current UKIP Foreign Affairs spokesman?
We now pay more than we did before.
My cat could do better than that.
I'm quite intrigued by this mystical world of people with bags of "international credibility" negotiating away on our behalf in some unseen netherworld of transnational bureaucracies. And I'm genuinely curious to know how and why these people will pull the food from our shelves and turn off our electricity if Farage were ever elected.
It all sounds quite exciting.
Maybe the specifics are kept from us for good reason. Like the SAS and the orders from above the President, these shadowy folks do what they do in secrecy because however much we think we want the truth, WE CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH! These arch shop lifters and turners off of power would eat us alive, for breakfast. And only Wombat and eharding know this.
Or, just maybe, crazy as it sounds, the few remaining people who make a conscious choice to vote Conservative, rather than doing so out of unthinking habit, can't actually explain why they do so, and don't want to admit it's an emotional choice, so they hide behind reasons they don't understand and can't explain.
eharding said:
Because political organisations with even the slightest degree of competency devote some degree of rigour to vetting party members wishing to become candidates, in order to determine that they're not some loon who is going to turn into a cluster-goat-feck-car-crash of a liability the first time they face the media.
In this case, and I suspect in many more to come, the UKIP officials responsible for this chap being allowed to stand as a candidate were either at best incompetent, or worse still complicit with his views.
No mind readers required - although if they did have one I'll wager this particular individual's wouldn't have been much to read anyway.
well I will definitely vote Blue Labour then as such a thing would never happen to a sensible, professional party of government In this case, and I suspect in many more to come, the UKIP officials responsible for this chap being allowed to stand as a candidate were either at best incompetent, or worse still complicit with his views.
No mind readers required - although if they did have one I'll wager this particular individual's wouldn't have been much to read anyway.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/02/con...
wolves_wanderer said:
eharding said:
Because political organisations with even the slightest degree of competency devote some degree of rigour to vetting party members wishing to become candidates, in order to determine that they're not some loon who is going to turn into a cluster-goat-feck-car-crash of a liability the first time they face the media.
In this case, and I suspect in many more to come, the UKIP officials responsible for this chap being allowed to stand as a candidate were either at best incompetent, or worse still complicit with his views.
No mind readers required - although if they did have one I'll wager this particular individual's wouldn't have been much to read anyway.
well I will definitely vote Blue Labour then as such a thing would never happen to a sensible, professional party of government In this case, and I suspect in many more to come, the UKIP officials responsible for this chap being allowed to stand as a candidate were either at best incompetent, or worse still complicit with his views.
No mind readers required - although if they did have one I'll wager this particular individual's wouldn't have been much to read anyway.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/02/con...
I'm still waiting for Hardy boy to tell us how many tories were expelled from the party for fiddling their expenses (stealing from the taxpayer).
I'm guessing it's zero, because the tory party tolerates thieves.
Over to you Hardy.
wolves_wanderer said:
eharding said:
Because political organisations with even the slightest degree of competency devote some degree of rigour to vetting party members wishing to become candidates, in order to determine that they're not some loon who is going to turn into a cluster-goat-feck-car-crash of a liability the first time they face the media.
In this case, and I suspect in many more to come, the UKIP officials responsible for this chap being allowed to stand as a candidate were either at best incompetent, or worse still complicit with his views.
No mind readers required - although if they did have one I'll wager this particular individual's wouldn't have been much to read anyway.
well I will definitely vote Blue Labour then as such a thing would never happen to a sensible, professional party of government In this case, and I suspect in many more to come, the UKIP officials responsible for this chap being allowed to stand as a candidate were either at best incompetent, or worse still complicit with his views.
No mind readers required - although if they did have one I'll wager this particular individual's wouldn't have been much to read anyway.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/02/con...
Globs said:
I'm still waiting for Hardy boy to tell us how many tories were expelled from the party for fiddling their expenses (stealing from the taxpayer).
I'm guessing it's zero, because the tory party tolerates thieves.
Over to you Hardy.
Well, I was thinking of John Taylor (Lord Taylor to you) who ended up in the slammer - but after checking the facts it appears he resigned before he could be expelled.I'm guessing it's zero, because the tory party tolerates thieves.
Over to you Hardy.
Interesting that UKIP has it's own problems with expenses and fraud - two UKIP MEPs eventually ended up inside. I also seem to remember Farage boasting the millions he'd claimed as an MEP, but that was back before the Westminster claimaggeddon - he doesn't seem so keen to mention it nowadays...
AJS- said:
Globs said:
AJS- said:
eharding said:
Who do you propose that Farage would have with him in the negotiating team?
International negotiations are invariably huge team efforts, inevitable given the minute scrutiny of detail and background work required.
At least 95% of the talking is done before the principals ever get into a room face-to-face.
Who, for example, is the current UKIP Foreign Affairs spokesman?
What are we negotiating? And who with? International negotiations are invariably huge team efforts, inevitable given the minute scrutiny of detail and background work required.
At least 95% of the talking is done before the principals ever get into a room face-to-face.
Who, for example, is the current UKIP Foreign Affairs spokesman?
We now pay more than we did before.
My cat could do better than that.
I'm quite intrigued by this mystical world of people with bags of "international credibility" negotiating away on our behalf in some unseen netherworld of transnational bureaucracies. And I'm genuinely curious to know how and why these people will pull the food from our shelves and turn off our electricity if Farage were ever elected.
It all sounds quite exciting.
Maybe the specifics are kept from us for good reason. Like the SAS and the orders from above the President, these shadowy folks do what they do in secrecy because however much we think we want the truth, WE CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH! These arch shop lifters and turners off of power would eat us alive, for breakfast. And only Wombat and eharding know this.
Or, just maybe, crazy as it sounds, the few remaining people who make a conscious choice to vote Conservative, rather than doing so out of unthinking habit, can't actually explain why they do so, and don't want to admit it's an emotional choice, so they hide behind reasons they don't understand and can't explain.
You asked how Farage would be at a disadvantage in international negotiations, and the point being made is that he doesn't have the temperament or personality to operate successfully in he large team efforts required, and that UKIP in general doesn't have the broad depth of talent available to draw on - as I understand it, they don't even currently have anyone deemed capable of being a Foreign Affairs spokesman, Farage preferring to keep that gig for himself.
eharding said:
wolves_wanderer said:
eharding said:
Because political organisations with even the slightest degree of competency devote some degree of rigour to vetting party members wishing to become candidates, in order to determine that they're not some loon who is going to turn into a cluster-goat-feck-car-crash of a liability the first time they face the media.
In this case, and I suspect in many more to come, the UKIP officials responsible for this chap being allowed to stand as a candidate were either at best incompetent, or worse still complicit with his views.
No mind readers required - although if they did have one I'll wager this particular individual's wouldn't have been much to read anyway.
well I will definitely vote Blue Labour then as such a thing would never happen to a sensible, professional party of government In this case, and I suspect in many more to come, the UKIP officials responsible for this chap being allowed to stand as a candidate were either at best incompetent, or worse still complicit with his views.
No mind readers required - although if they did have one I'll wager this particular individual's wouldn't have been much to read anyway.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/02/con...
wolves_wanderer said:
eharding said:
wolves_wanderer said:
eharding said:
Because political organisations with even the slightest degree of competency devote some degree of rigour to vetting party members wishing to become candidates, in order to determine that they're not some loon who is going to turn into a cluster-goat-feck-car-crash of a liability the first time they face the media.
In this case, and I suspect in many more to come, the UKIP officials responsible for this chap being allowed to stand as a candidate were either at best incompetent, or worse still complicit with his views.
No mind readers required - although if they did have one I'll wager this particular individual's wouldn't have been much to read anyway.
well I will definitely vote Blue Labour then as such a thing would never happen to a sensible, professional party of government In this case, and I suspect in many more to come, the UKIP officials responsible for this chap being allowed to stand as a candidate were either at best incompetent, or worse still complicit with his views.
No mind readers required - although if they did have one I'll wager this particular individual's wouldn't have been much to read anyway.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/02/con...
eharding said:
If you've quite finished folding your bacofoil trilby...
You asked how Farage would be at a disadvantage in international negotiations, and the point being made is that he doesn't have the temperament or personality to operate successfully in he large team efforts required, and that UKIP in general doesn't have the broad depth of talent available to draw on - as I understand it, they don't even currently have anyone deemed capable of being a Foreign Affairs spokesman, Farage preferring to keep that gig for himself.
So which negotiations would this hamper us in, and what would the consequences be?You asked how Farage would be at a disadvantage in international negotiations, and the point being made is that he doesn't have the temperament or personality to operate successfully in he large team efforts required, and that UKIP in general doesn't have the broad depth of talent available to draw on - as I understand it, they don't even currently have anyone deemed capable of being a Foreign Affairs spokesman, Farage preferring to keep that gig for himself.
AJS- said:
eharding said:
If you've quite finished folding your bacofoil trilby...
You asked how Farage would be at a disadvantage in international negotiations, and the point being made is that he doesn't have the temperament or personality to operate successfully in he large team efforts required, and that UKIP in general doesn't have the broad depth of talent available to draw on - as I understand it, they don't even currently have anyone deemed capable of being a Foreign Affairs spokesman, Farage preferring to keep that gig for himself.
So which negotiations would this hamper us in, and what would the consequences be?You asked how Farage would be at a disadvantage in international negotiations, and the point being made is that he doesn't have the temperament or personality to operate successfully in he large team efforts required, and that UKIP in general doesn't have the broad depth of talent available to draw on - as I understand it, they don't even currently have anyone deemed capable of being a Foreign Affairs spokesman, Farage preferring to keep that gig for himself.
eharding said:
AJS- said:
eharding said:
If you've quite finished folding your bacofoil trilby...
You asked how Farage would be at a disadvantage in international negotiations, and the point being made is that he doesn't have the temperament or personality to operate successfully in he large team efforts required, and that UKIP in general doesn't have the broad depth of talent available to draw on - as I understand it, they don't even currently have anyone deemed capable of being a Foreign Affairs spokesman, Farage preferring to keep that gig for himself.
So which negotiations would this hamper us in, and what would the consequences be?You asked how Farage would be at a disadvantage in international negotiations, and the point being made is that he doesn't have the temperament or personality to operate successfully in he large team efforts required, and that UKIP in general doesn't have the broad depth of talent available to draw on - as I understand it, they don't even currently have anyone deemed capable of being a Foreign Affairs spokesman, Farage preferring to keep that gig for himself.
And are these things really dependent on the schmooziness and experience of the current PM? Or are there civil servants and delegates we have already working in the EU trade department, and in the WTO who might just be of some use, despite Farage having a personality?
eharding said:
wolves_wanderer said:
eharding said:
wolves_wanderer said:
eharding said:
Because political organisations with even the slightest degree of competency devote some degree of rigour to vetting party members wishing to become candidates, in order to determine that they're not some loon who is going to turn into a cluster-goat-feck-car-crash of a liability the first time they face the media.
In this case, and I suspect in many more to come, the UKIP officials responsible for this chap being allowed to stand as a candidate were either at best incompetent, or worse still complicit with his views.
No mind readers required - although if they did have one I'll wager this particular individual's wouldn't have been much to read anyway.
well I will definitely vote Blue Labour then as such a thing would never happen to a sensible, professional party of government In this case, and I suspect in many more to come, the UKIP officials responsible for this chap being allowed to stand as a candidate were either at best incompetent, or worse still complicit with his views.
No mind readers required - although if they did have one I'll wager this particular individual's wouldn't have been much to read anyway.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/02/con...
To apply your UKIP standards to Blue Labour I wonder how many other Tories are convinced that prayer can cure Homosexuality? Or that an alcoholic choking to death on their own vomit is God calling them home as they aren't ready to face their demons [literally] yet? The fact that she was subsequently appointed a special advisor suggests a worrying pre-disposition amongst Blue Labourites to fairy tale explanations does it not?
Thank you for confirming nobody was expelled for expenses misdemeanours though, priorities well and truly right.
Edited by wolves_wanderer on Thursday 7th March 11:38
wolves_wanderer said:
Are you suggesting that the Guardian libelled her?
It's a possibility - that's why I was asking if you could find any other sources making the same allegations.I think you'll find as many folk in UKIP with a belief in the invisible sky pixie as in any other party - the recently defenestrated 'kipper in Bristol is a devout Catholic, for example.
eharding said:
wolves_wanderer said:
Are you suggesting that the Guardian libelled her?
It's a possibility - that's why I was asking if you could find any other sources making the same allegations.I think you'll find as many folk in UKIP with a belief in the invisible sky pixie as in any other party - the recently defenestrated 'kipper in Bristol is a devout Catholic, for example.
Anyway it nicely exposes the kind of FUD that Blue Labourites are spreading about UKIP.
eharding said:
The question remains - what sort of party lets that sort rubbish into the ranks in the first place?
What sort of vetting process was applied before he was allowed to stand as a UKIP candidate?
What sort of vetting process was applied before he was allowed to stand as a UKIP candidate?
eharding said:
Because political organisations with even the slightest degree of competency devote some degree of rigour to vetting party members wishing to become candidates, in order to determine that they're not some loon who is going to turn into a cluster-goat-feck-car-crash of a liability the first time they face the media.
In this case, and I suspect in many more to come, the UKIP officials responsible for this chap being allowed to stand as a candidate were either at best incompetent, or worse still complicit with his views.
And the differing standards to which they hold their own parties. In this case, and I suspect in many more to come, the UKIP officials responsible for this chap being allowed to stand as a candidate were either at best incompetent, or worse still complicit with his views.
Maybe (as I have been saying all along) the Conservatives should think about why people are moving away from them - and what they could do to stop it; as opposed to just slagging them off, smearing their rivals, making vague promises about moving to the right after an election and threatening the labour bogeyman in case any rightwingers think about voting with their conscience.
eharding said:
Globs said:
I'm still waiting for Hardy boy to tell us how many tories were expelled from the party for fiddling their expenses (stealing from the taxpayer).
I'm guessing it's zero, because the tory party tolerates thieves.
Over to you Hardy.
Well, I was thinking of John Taylor (Lord Taylor to you) who ended up in the slammer - but after checking the facts it appears he resigned before he could be expelled.I'm guessing it's zero, because the tory party tolerates thieves.
Over to you Hardy.
Interesting that UKIP has it's own problems with expenses and fraud - two UKIP MEPs eventually ended up inside. I also seem to remember Farage boasting the millions he'd claimed as an MEP, but that was back before the Westminster claimaggeddon - he doesn't seem so keen to mention it nowadays...
The tory party contains many thieves and traitors, I'm sorry you are comfortable with that.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-exp...
There are so many tories in that list that perhaps the reason they couldn't fire them is that there wouldn't be much of a party left once the thieves had gone.
Why would I ever vote for them over UKIP?
Globs said:
The tory party contains many thieves and traitors, I'm sorry you are comfortable with that.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-exp...
Do you seriously think that had UKIP had a Westminster parliamentary presence during the expenses debacle that there wouldn't be UKIP names on that list? - UKIP MEPs hardly have an unblemished reputation in that regard, do they?http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-exp...
eharding said:
Globs said:
The tory party contains many thieves and traitors, I'm sorry you are comfortable with that.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-exp...
Do you seriously think that had UKIP had a Westminster parliamentary presence during the expenses debacle that there wouldn't be UKIP names on that list? - UKIP MEPs hardly have an unblemished reputation in that regard, do they?http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-exp...
<ong time no pseak!You're usually much better than that reposte; it's a piss-weak reply by your high standards.
Andy Zarse said:
eharding said:
Globs said:
The tory party contains many thieves and traitors, I'm sorry you are comfortable with that.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-exp...
Do you seriously think that had UKIP had a Westminster parliamentary presence during the expenses debacle that there wouldn't be UKIP names on that list? - UKIP MEPs hardly have an unblemished reputation in that regard, do they?http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-exp...
<ong time no pseak!You're usually much better than that reposte; it's a piss-weak reply by your high standards.
eharding said:
Globs said:
The tory party contains many thieves and traitors, I'm sorry you are comfortable with that.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-exp...
Do you seriously think that had UKIP had a Westminster parliamentary presence during the expenses debacle that there wouldn't be UKIP names on that list? - UKIP MEPs hardly have an unblemished reputation in that regard, do they?http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-exp...
Dozens of tory thieves fiddle theirs and they are all still welcomed in the tory party.
Do you seriously think you can defend the tories trait of welcoming thieves?
I'll be voting for an independent party with standards, not a tory den of thieves giving away my power and money to their EU masters.
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