Israeli

[deadslow]

supersingle said:

deadslow said:

Ah, that would explain why they murder 100 per day.

Is all killing murder? Even in war?

No, you're right.

Isreal can do no wrong. Are Gazan civilians even people? Probably not, these days.

[Mrr T]

deadslow said:

Ah, that would explain why they murder 100 per day.

“Mens rea” is not a war crime even if the dead are “protected persons”.

Do you come from the UK?

[s1962a]

Now I have really heard it all. Justifying the bombing of children as it's better than starvation, and Israel is doing them a favour by treating them as human beings, because they really don't have to.

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

[league67]

JagLover said:

Hamas clearly took advantage of the ceasefire to attack an Israeli unit and achieve its aim of capturing a soldier. But as per usual much of the blame for the renewed conflict gets laid on Israel.

Rather than these periodic eruptions of conflict Israel would probably be better off securing the Gaza strip, no matter the cost. The decision to abandon it looked momentarily hopeful for peace but has just left a missile launch site next to Israeli territory, any attempt to combat which seems to lead inevitably to worldwide condemnation.

Stop lying. Solder was 'missing' before ceasefire started. Even IDF admits that.

No matter what cost? You are awfully cavalier with other people's lives. 'Securing'? Is that like Hungarian Jews were 'secured' in Jasenovac? To protect them? For their own good?

And of course, at the end, the victim card. So tiring. So predictable.

[league67]

Mrr T said:

Only if they are “protected persons”.

You bleat about Geneva convention, and you know nothing. You know less than nothing. Take time to read articles 47 to 57, 61 to 73 and 77. Slowly. Out loud. To yourself. Many times.

[jonby]

league67 said:

Stop lying. Solder was 'missing' before ceasefire started. Even IDF admits that.

not according to the tweet pinned to the top of the IDF 's own twitter feed:

This morning, Hamas fired at our forces in S. Gaza in violation of a ceasefire. We suspect that an IDF soldier was kidnapped moments later.

[Alpinestars]

franki68 said:

no,of course arabs were displaced,as I mentioned previously some were forced out,some left through fear ,some left because the arab league told them too,and some didnt leave.The use of the word cleansing though is odious,has it been applied to any other displaced population ? And they are not the indigenous people.It is a land that has been conquered many times and had massive immigration into it at many points throughout history .
the palestinians have claimed to be descended from the philistines (I think someone referred to that on this thread earlier) ,but since it was pointed out the philistines were actually greek/cypriot invaders ,the palestinians now try to claim they were descendants of the caanites.
the oNly constant has been a near continual jewish presence for 3000 years.
may I suggest some research on the dna shared between those palestinians who have long ties to israel and the jews ,it suggests that they are descended from jews ,its actually something both sides agree on...keeping quiet.It suits neither side to admit to it,but it is an interesting area of research.

Ok let's not call it ethnic cleansing. Call it what you will. But you accept that some of the population was forced out by terror. And appear to be saying that there seems be some right of return because Palestine is some sort of ancestral home? Even though it appears that a lot of the Jewish settlers were not originally from the area - but that's a moot point I think.

Do the same rights apply to the current Palestinians who are terrorising Israel? Do they not have the same rights? And if not, why not?

[Mrr T]

league67 said:

You bleat about Geneva convention, and you know nothing. You know less than nothing. Take time to read articles 47 to 57, 61 to 73 and 77. Slowly. Out loud. To yourself. Many times.

I have done have you?

[league67]

Mrr T said:

league67 said:

You bleat about Geneva convention, and you know nothing. You know less than nothing. Take time to read articles 47 to 57, 61 to 73 and 77. Slowly. Out loud. To yourself. Many times.

I have done have you?

It's obviously not enough. I do understand that in extreme cases it takes longer. Keep doing it.

[supersingle]

deadslow said:

supersingle said:

deadslow said:

Ah, that would explain why they murder 100 per day.

Is all killing murder? Even in war?

No, you're right.

Isreal can do no wrong. Are Gazan civilians even people? Probably not, these days.

If you could just calm yourself for a moment.

It's fine if you do consider all killing to be murder. That's the position of many pacifists and one that I respect. If we all thought this way there could be no war.

Of course it only takes one person to go against the pacifist doctrine and reap the spoils and we're back to where we started. For what it's worth I don't believe that Israel is engaging in murder because it is engaged in a war of defence which targets military objectives. The civilian casualties are tragic but I doubt Israel deliberately targets civilians, if only because it would be so counterproductive to their aims.

Hamas, on the other hand, fires its rockets indiscriminately. Their own spokesmen admit that's a war crime because it doesn't distinguish between military and civilian targets.

[Mrr T]

league67 said:

Mrr T said:

league67 said:

You bleat about Geneva convention, and you know nothing. You know less than nothing. Take time to read articles 47 to 57, 61 to 73 and 77. Slowly. Out loud. To yourself. Many times.

I have done have you?

It's obviously not enough. I do understand that in extreme cases it takes longer. Keep doing it.

My friend it is some years since I had to research on the Geneva Convention. But I know it was written by Governments who conducted WW2 in which the allies us Brits and the US deliberately killed over 1 million civilians.

[Zeeky]

Mrr T said:

...I answered a very specific question. I actually believe it is possible Israel is treating the population of Gaza as “protected persons” even though it is not required to under the Geneva Convention.

Most States disagree with that assertion. Assuming the Convention doesn't apply because Palestine isn't a State signatory, how does Israel avoid being bound by the same provisions in Customary Law.

[deadslow]

supersingle said:

deadslow said:

supersingle said:

deadslow said:

Ah, that would explain why they murder 100 per day.

Is all killing murder? Even in war?

No, you're right.

Isreal can do no wrong. Are Gazan civilians even people? Probably not, these days.

If you could just calm yourself for a moment.

It's fine if you do consider all killing to be murder. That's the position of many pacifists and one that I respect. If we all thought this way there could be no war.

Of course it only takes one person to go against the pacifist doctrine and reap the spoils and we're back to where we started. For what it's worth I don't believe that Israel is engaging in murder because it is engaged in a war of defence which targets military objectives. The civilian casualties are tragic but I doubt Israel deliberately targets civilians, if only because it would be so counterproductive to their aims.

Hamas, on the other hand, fires its rockets indiscriminately. Their own spokesmen admit that's a war crime because it doesn't distinguish between military and civilian targets.

Sorry pal, but you are super-condescending and blind/blinkered. The Israelis have the benefit of the most sophisticated weapons systems on the planet, courtesy of their playground-bullyboy-protector the USA. If they hit a school, its deliberate.

[league67]

jonby said:

league67 said:

Stop lying. Solder was 'missing' before ceasefire started. Even IDF admits that.

not according to the tweet pinned to the top of the IDF 's own twitter feed:

This morning, Hamas fired at our forces in S. Gaza in violation of a ceasefire. We suspect that an IDF soldier was kidnapped moments later.

You could be right, I often mix which terrorist group issued which statement.

[league67]

Mrr T said:

league67 said:

Mrr T said:

league67 said:

You bleat about Geneva convention, and you know nothing. You know less than nothing. Take time to read articles 47 to 57, 61 to 73 and 77. Slowly. Out loud. To yourself. Many times.

I have done have you?

It's obviously not enough. I do understand that in extreme cases it takes longer. Keep doing it.

My friend it is some years since I had to research on the Geneva Convention. But I know it was written by Governments who conducted WW2 in which the allies us Brits and the US deliberately killed over 1 million civilians.

You should do refresher course. I'll help you out with the starting point as the previous one was obviously too taxing.

http://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/misc/5...

While you are at it, maybe you should research term 'friend'. IMHO you are confusing term friend with term 'set of pixels'.

[JensenA]

There's only one difference here. Hammas fire missiles hoping they will kill civilians.
IDF fire missiles hoping they won't.
The result is the same, civilians get killed.

[JuniorD]

if Hamas were to use the captured soldier as a 'human shield', would the IDF bomb the st of him anyway with the same disregard as they have for Palestinian citizen human shields?

[Kaj91]

[league67]

deadslow said:

Sorry pal, but you are super-condescending and blind/blinkered. The Israelis have the benefit of the most sophisticated weapons systems on the planet, courtesy of their playground-bullyboy-protector the USA. If they hit a school, its deliberate.

I think you are being too harsh. After all, Regev and Lerner said it numerous times that Israel goes to extreme lengths to avoid civilian casualties. They would also never be part of collective punishment of Palestinians, as that is a war crime. You have to expect few casualties during military operations. But they are, obviously, someone else's fault.
Saying all that, some moron suggested that Palestinians love death, and that mothers are actually proud when their children are killed. Hence, when you see those misleading videos that show crying women, those are actually tears of joy, not of sorrow.
I hope this clear things up for you.

[league67]

JensenA said:

There's only one difference here. Hammas fire missiles hoping they will kill civilians.
IDF fire missiles hoping they won't.
The result is the same, civilians get killed.

I'll disagree with that.

Hamas fire missiles hoping that they'll kill Israeli, civilians or military, I doubt that they care much.
IDF fire missiles not giving a crap if they kill civilians, as long as the civilians are not Israelis.
The result is that civilians get killed. 3 in Israel, few more in Gaza.

I do wonder if some Hamas numpty, some Hamas equivalent of Regev, turns and says, 'we are only targeting military, we never target civilians', would they stop being terrorists? Result, as you said, being the same.