Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6
Discussion
Cobnapint said:
Is it f
k significant. 25% would be significant. 10% is very close.
Depends how you look at it - many UK general elections are won with much smaller % differences than this.k significant. 25% would be significant. 10% is very close.The 2005 Labour government for example were elected on the back of a popular vote that was only 2.4% higher than the conservatives. The difference between the SNP and conservative support during the 2010 general election was only 3% - yet 'nobody in Scotland votes Tory' - or so we have been constantly told.
Had this been run like a normal general election (i.e. based on seats) - it would have been hailed as a landslide victory.
Genuine question.
Regarding the West Lothian issue, why is it not as simple as:
"Until, or unless, English MPs get a vote on matters tabled in Holyrood (and the other regional assemblies, for that matter), no MPs from other countries in the Union may vote on matters affecting only England"
Why is that such a big, difficult question. other than for historic reasons? We don't have an English parliament (should we??) so how else can English issues be agreed?
Regarding the West Lothian issue, why is it not as simple as:
"Until, or unless, English MPs get a vote on matters tabled in Holyrood (and the other regional assemblies, for that matter), no MPs from other countries in the Union may vote on matters affecting only England"
Why is that such a big, difficult question. other than for historic reasons? We don't have an English parliament (should we??) so how else can English issues be agreed?
Cobnapint said:
Is it fk significant. 25% would be significant. 10% is very close.
Don't think this has gone away, it hasn't. Salmond said in his speech - Scotland has voted to stay with the union - AT THIS STAGE!
Expect to go through the same st in about 15-20 years time.
I noticed the 'at this stage' as well. I'm surprised the news anchors didn't pick up on it.k significant. 25% would be significant. 10% is very close.Don't think this has gone away, it hasn't. Salmond said in his speech - Scotland has voted to stay with the union - AT THIS STAGE!
Expect to go through the same s
t in about 15-20 years time.Was it just me, or did Salmond look relieved? I would expect someone who's life's work has been undone to be crestfallen but he didn't sound or look it.
Cobnapint said:
Expect to go through the same st in about 15-20 years time.
Their next chance will be if the promised EU in/out referendum goes for 'out' - a call for an Independent Scotland within the EU would be a much stronger case (indeed 'yes' could be seen as the status quo and 'no' being for uncertainty).t in about 15-20 years time.zygalski said:
Cobnapint said:
But why the fk should you get it? What makes Scotland so fking special? What is wrong with being run from the democratically accepted capital of Great Britain?
You voted No!
Jocks - get over yourselves, FFS!
Shut up & pay for their prescription charges, will you!k should you get it? What makes Scotland so fking special? What is wrong with being run from the democratically accepted capital of Great Britain?You voted No!
Jocks - get over yourselves, FFS!
Cheese Mechanic said:
Well, its good that the voices of reason have won over Salmond's fantasies. Other than that though, little to celebrate.
The simple fact remains, that Salmond and his nasty party, have successfully portrayed Scots as being knuckledragging , sponging English haters, and by God, some are. However, most are not, but it is they who will suffer from the imagery that has come out of Scotland in the past week or two. Such ill will tends to be remembered, perhaps for too long, but it won't go away overnight.
We are already seeing reports of holidays being cancelled in Scotland by those south of the border, some in lieu of the vote result, but the majority it seems because of the ill will displayed to the English from north of the border . Difficult to know how much Scottish tourism is going to suffer, we shall see, but its evident already, that it will.
As for big business, especially those HQ'd in Scotland. This will have been of much concern to them, contingency plans will have been drawn up, plans to relocate south, as many have publicly admitted. They will remain worried of all this circus occuring again, it will come as no surprise, that in the fullness of time , those big companies, will slowly, but surely, relocate their HQ's into England.
Having said that so far, the real st will not be hitting the fan in Scotland, it will be doing so in the rest of the UK. Devo max? Not going to happen, any party down here who tries to implement such, unless I have read things very wrong , will be toast. The English voter, will not have it , such blatant preferential treatment via Scots hands in everyone else's pockets will not be tolerated. Mr Salmond has been far too successfull in portraying the Scots as English hating spongers, you see.
Very sad is it not. That such a small number of spite ridden people like Salmond and his nasty party, can do so much harm to Scotland and in the course of doing so, royally pissing off millions of others, because thats what they have done, thats what the end result of this hysterical circus is. Sad.
Fully agree. Once the glee of the No vote subsides, reality will strike back. Nearly half of Scotland think Alex Salmond is wonderful and don't want anything to do with England - that is what it boils down to, and it won't be forgotten for a long time.The simple fact remains, that Salmond and his nasty party, have successfully portrayed Scots as being knuckledragging , sponging English haters, and by God, some are. However, most are not, but it is they who will suffer from the imagery that has come out of Scotland in the past week or two. Such ill will tends to be remembered, perhaps for too long, but it won't go away overnight.
We are already seeing reports of holidays being cancelled in Scotland by those south of the border, some in lieu of the vote result, but the majority it seems because of the ill will displayed to the English from north of the border . Difficult to know how much Scottish tourism is going to suffer, we shall see, but its evident already, that it will.
As for big business, especially those HQ'd in Scotland. This will have been of much concern to them, contingency plans will have been drawn up, plans to relocate south, as many have publicly admitted. They will remain worried of all this circus occuring again, it will come as no surprise, that in the fullness of time , those big companies, will slowly, but surely, relocate their HQ's into England.
Having said that so far, the real s
t will not be hitting the fan in Scotland, it will be doing so in the rest of the UK. Devo max? Not going to happen, any party down here who tries to implement such, unless I have read things very wrong , will be toast. The English voter, will not have it , such blatant preferential treatment via Scots hands in everyone else's pockets will not be tolerated. Mr Salmond has been far too successfull in portraying the Scots as English hating spongers, you see. Very sad is it not. That such a small number of spite ridden people like Salmond and his nasty party, can do so much harm to Scotland and in the course of doing so, royally pissing off millions of others, because thats what they have done, thats what the end result of this hysterical circus is. Sad.
Result was never going to be any different,Edinburgh full of Anglified Scots posh knob-ends and Aberdeen full of pople who've battered their heads off granite a bit too often while ofcourse reeking of fish.Good old Glasgae thou,never ever change,true Scots city through and through.Too many chuffing foreigners in the country now anyway to care where Scotland goes.Nice to hear the 'Jock' term showing it's pretty head again on this thread,ignorant bds.
ds.cardigankid said:
The reality here is that we have all had a remarkably close shave. 40 years ago a result of 45/55 against independence would have been inconceivable. A continuation of that trend is only going to lead to one place. Darling fought a poor campaign, The Yes campaign was far better. To lose by such a narrow margin when there are so many unknowns, such close relations with the rest of the UK and so many serious problems with independence is not a hammering. This is a remarkable success for the SNP. It should be a wake up call for Westminster.
Devolution of more powers to Scotland will only guarantee another referendum in 15-20 years. What we need now is leadership for the whole of the UK. We need to be together, British, not fragmented and certainly not sniping at each other.. Parliament has to engage with everyone - Scotland, Wales, NI, North West, North East, South West, everywhere. To fail to do that will guarantee both that there will be a next time, and that the next time the Nats will win.
Absolutely. Nail. Head. Hit. Westminster doesn't even speak for the West midlands, let alone West Lothian. The change in the way the UK is administrated needs to be the outcome of this, and Scotland need to be acknowledged for acting as a catalyst, in what I hope will be a sea change.Devolution of more powers to Scotland will only guarantee another referendum in 15-20 years. What we need now is leadership for the whole of the UK. We need to be together, British, not fragmented and certainly not sniping at each other.. Parliament has to engage with everyone - Scotland, Wales, NI, North West, North East, South West, everywhere. To fail to do that will guarantee both that there will be a next time, and that the next time the Nats will win.
Good graphic as to the votes on the guardian site
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive...
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive...
So that's it two years of debate an end of the day it was a no. I would like to say thanks to the regular posters on here who made this a great debate from yes side we have fluff and Burger (who voted no) and on yes we had wiggle, Guam, big rod, Simmond, Welsh beef and many others thanks for the great debate chaps I doubt we will ever meet but I am sure I would 3 joy a beer with anyone of you.
Gecko
Gecko
Carl_Spackler said:
Good graphic as to the votes on the guardian site
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive...
It would be nice to see a map shaded based on the percentage yes/no (i.e. darker red or green based on how much the vote was won by). It would make it clearer which areas were close fought - and which were clearly for or against on or other result.http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive...
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