London cabbies to protest over smartphone app.

[lemmingjames]

hairyben said:

Also - I've got my concerns about uber etc and how much wages are being driven down to shocking levels in some trades and also the pitiful driving standards in london particularly from minicabs - but the latest proposals from tfl are nothing short of fraudulent protectionism.

The driving standards in central and some parts of East/South East/South London have been shocking for quite a while and long before the likes of Uber turned up

[Adrian W]

FrankAbagnale said:

Are there other industries/jobs that are protected from innovation in a similar way?

I'm trying to draw a comparable in my head between taxi drivers and any other job.

The ruling is about the equipment not the application

[Zod]

Adrian W said:

Completely nuts ruling, how can two things that do exactly the same thing not be the same thing

They are very different. Hence the ruling.

[Burwood]

Adrian W said:

Completely nuts ruling, how can two things that do exactly the same thing not be the same thing

If you read the judges findings you will get it. The law states very clearly, 'a device to calculate fares inside the car'. The phone does no such calculation. The time/distance is send to a server somewhere else (not in the car), calculates the fare and sends the calculation to the driver and the passenger.

[Zod]

lemmingjames said:

hairyben said:

Also - I've got my concerns about uber etc and how much wages are being driven down to shocking levels in some trades and also the pitiful driving standards in london particularly from minicabs - but the latest proposals from tfl are nothing short of fraudulent protectionism.

The driving standards in central and some parts of East/South East/South London have been shocking for quite a while and long before the likes of Uber turned up

The standard of driving by some black cab drivers is appalling. Lane changes by squeezing over in traffic without indicating are close to universal. If at the head of traffic coasting up to a red light where there are two lanes, many black cab drivers will position the cab centrally over the lane divider to prevent another car from being able to set off ahead of them.

[Adrian W]

Zod said:

Adrian W said:

Completely nuts ruling, how can two things that do exactly the same thing not be the same thing

They are very different. Hence the ruling.

No! The only difference is one bit of kit does the calculation in front of you and one does it on a server in America , patent lawyers must be rubbing there hands together, this could open the floodgates

Edited by Adrian W on Friday 16th October 12:35

[nitrodave]

Zod said:

The standard of driving by some black cab drivers is appalling. Lane changes by squeezing over in traffic without indicating are close to universal. If at the head of traffic coasting up to a red light where there are two lanes, many black cab drivers will position the cab centrally over the lane divider to prevent another car from being able to set off ahead of them.

I see this exact behaviour every day... they are by far the worst, most rude, angry drivers on Londons roads.

I am sop pleased Uber is in existence. I haven't used a black cab for a good couple of years now. I always felt utterly ripped off when using them and the drivers are 99% of the time complete racist biggoted a-holes.

Bye Bye!

[Blib]

Easy to call a black cab driver's bluff. They can't ply for hire if their cab is in anyway damaged or scratched. So, when push comes to shove, they always, always give way. I've been driving in London for almost forty years . Works every time.

[KTF]

Interesting comment on this from the article on the register:

A comment from the register said:

Or maybe we don't need to legislate this kind of antique common-sense stuff any more.

If Uber, as a service chosen by the customer, is misleading or defruading customers as to trip lengths / costs, then we sue them into oblivion like any other company doing the same thing.

Why does a taxi need a specific exemption here? This is about taximeters. Getting into a random cab that has a deliberately-dodgy taximeter, yes, that's a risk that could see customers have no way to prove otherwise and be subject to falsified or modified prices. The chances of the customer's own phone misrepresenting the distance they travelled? The chances of Uber mis-charging based on your one-mile journey as something other than a one-mile journey? No, it's not worth legislating. As such, the "taximeter" is in the user's hands and quite possibly Uber stand more chance of being defrauded than anyone else.

And let's be honest, the whole thing comes down historically to dodgy cabs, and is now brought up to try to support certain classes of taxis that are surpassed by an online service with random drivers.

This is a sour-grapes / outdated industry protection, nothing to do with customers being defrauded. This is about trying to find a legal loophole to stick Uber to the wall because it's making taxis obsolete. Two of my cousins are taxi drivers. They work hard and make money. But if you can't book a cab with a smartphone, can't find where to hail one, they won't go "sarf of the river", etc. then they are doing themselves no favours as an industry. That someone can rock up with an app that cuts into their income overnight means that they could have done the same. The laws to protect and licence the taxi profession are actually working AGAINST them here, because they are so inflexible. Rather than resolve that, they are trying to make everyone work by their rules, including these new usptarts that are taking money from them.

To be honest, I've used about 3-4 black taxis in my entire life. I've had them drive past me despite advertising their availability. I find them difficult to locate when you need one. They often refuse, even if they are not supposed to. Minicabs and other licensors are just the same and you aren't even legally allowed to hail one on the street. So the workaround is to "book" one immediately near your location and use it. It's booked. It turns up. It takes you where you want. You're given a price beforehand with proof, and they don't refuse once they arrive.

Black cabs are just having sour-grapes over their own monopoly protections working against them rather than for them, and Uber have a loophole that they can't defeat in court. To be honest, good. We need licensed cabs, certainly. Licencing is a necessary safety feature. Everything else about black-cabs, including special legal protection, stupidly overpriced vehicles that can only be maintained by their stupidly overpriced manufacturer, lack of combined apps, and in-car taximeters being the definitive pricing and having no idea what your journey will cost until you get there, all needs to be got rid of in the modern era.

Source: http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2015/10/16...

[kev1974]

Don't understand why TfL and black cab driver associations haven't just got off their bums and worked on their own app and supportive legislation, before it's too late and Uber (or whatever is the next Uber) completely take over. May already be too late, in which case they should have given people what they wanted ages ago.

[Burwood]

kev1974 said:

Don't understand why TfL and black cab driver associations haven't just got off their bums and worked on their own app and supportive legislation, before it's too late and Uber (or whatever is the next Uber) completely take over. May already be too late, in which case they should have given people what they wanted ages ago.

Because Uber would still prevail due to the cost, attitude and fare picking of Black Cabs. Uber will not go away quietly. They have billions at their disposal. You can't stop progress. In any even I dont think TFL are against them. They took the case to placate the black cabs

[Zod]

kev1974 said:

Don't understand why TfL and black cab driver associations haven't just got off their bums and worked on their own app and supportive legislation, before it's too late and Uber (or whatever is the next Uber) completely take over. May already be too late, in which case they should have given people what they wanted ages ago.

There are two of them, Hailo and Gett. Lots of black cab drivers don't like them. They are not supposed to cancel when they've accepted a booking, but they do. Uber drivers don't. I suspect that some black cab drivers also don't like having their journeys and fares recorded on a server.

[rpguk]

kev1974 said:

Don't understand why TfL and black cab driver associations haven't just got off their bums and worked on their own app and supportive legislation, before it's too late and Uber (or whatever is the next Uber) completely take over. May already be too late, in which case they should have given people what they wanted ages ago.

They did have one or two attempts (I can't remember what they were called mind) but the cost is going to be much higher then Uber because black cab drivers won't work for the amount that an Uber driver will.

The sad fact is they're dinosaurs and are being undercut. It's has to be bad for them as a lot of them will have been doing it all their lives and Taxi driving is a bit of a lifestyle so it's going to be hard for them to adjust.

It must be difficult to be at a point where your industry is killed off but that's life and sometimes it happens and you have to deal with it. On the flip side we Londoners are finally getting an affordable and reliable cab service that we should have always had.

[London424]

Zod said:

kev1974 said:

Don't understand why TfL and black cab driver associations haven't just got off their bums and worked on their own app and supportive legislation, before it's too late and Uber (or whatever is the next Uber) completely take over. May already be too late, in which case they should have given people what they wanted ages ago.

There are two of them, Hailo and Gett. Lots of black cab drivers don't like them. They are not supposed to cancel when they've accepted a booking, but they do. Uber drivers don't. I suspect that some black cab drivers also don't like having their journeys and fares recorded on a server.

You're not suggesting that black cab drivers are a 'bit creative' when it comes to declaring their revenue, are you? How dare you!

[audidoody]

Black cab - W1 - N6 at night

Black Cab:
Stand in street, attempt to flag down cab competing with other people trying to do the same, declare destination, wait for destination to be acceptable to driver, pay £25 cash plus tip. No receipt. No record of journey.


Uber:
Launch Uber app, touch icon, received instant notification of driver's reg, photo, name and location. Stay indoors. Wait for cab (clean, modern saloon) to arrive. Enter car (with option to have someone track the journey in real time) . Leave car at destination. Have £13 deducted from CC account, receive instant receipt detailing time. route, fare paid.


It's what we in the trade call a 'no brainer'

[danllama]

Drive around central London every day. Black cabbies are some of the worst drivers, along with bus drivers.

They are also ridiculously expensive and it's about time they had something to worry about.

Just adding my 2p.

[anonymous-user]

How much of a difference is Uber actually making to black cab trade?

It seems like a much better alternative, assuming the uber drivers aren't all rapists and murderers. Do they all go through DBS/CRB checks?

[kev1974]

rpguk said:

kev1974 said:

Don't understand why TfL and black cab driver associations haven't just got off their bums and worked on their own app and supportive legislation, before it's too late and Uber (or whatever is the next Uber) completely take over. May already be too late, in which case they should have given people what they wanted ages ago.

They did have one or two attempts (I can't remember what they were called mind) but the cost is going to be much higher then Uber because black cab drivers won't work for the amount that an Uber driver will.

The sad fact is they're dinosaurs and are being undercut. It's has to be bad for them as a lot of them will have been doing it all their lives and Taxi driving is a bit of a lifestyle so it's going to be hard for them to adjust.

It must be difficult to be at a point where your industry is killed off but that's life and sometimes it happens and you have to deal with it. On the flip side we Londoners are finally getting an affordable and reliable cab service that we should have always had.

But their industry isn't being killed off at all, just the big players are changing. They can keep their lives driving people around, they just have to do it for Uber or Addison Lee or any number of corporate chauffeuring companies instead. They might earn a bit less but so do I in IT relative to what I earned in the early 2000s, things change, you make what you can of it. The only other change they'll have to get used to if they move employer is their work and fares actually being logged and auditable boo hoo, they had it good for a while.

[p1stonhead]

kev1974 said:

rpguk said:

kev1974 said:

Don't understand why TfL and black cab driver associations haven't just got off their bums and worked on their own app and supportive legislation, before it's too late and Uber (or whatever is the next Uber) completely take over. May already be too late, in which case they should have given people what they wanted ages ago.

They did have one or two attempts (I can't remember what they were called mind) but the cost is going to be much higher then Uber because black cab drivers won't work for the amount that an Uber driver will.

The sad fact is they're dinosaurs and are being undercut. It's has to be bad for them as a lot of them will have been doing it all their lives and Taxi driving is a bit of a lifestyle so it's going to be hard for them to adjust.

It must be difficult to be at a point where your industry is killed off but that's life and sometimes it happens and you have to deal with it. On the flip side we Londoners are finally getting an affordable and reliable cab service that we should have always had.

But their industry isn't being killed off at all, just the big players are changing. They can keep their lives driving people around, they just have to do it for Uber or Addison Lee or any number of corporate chauffeuring companies instead. They might earn a bit less but so do I in IT relative to what I earned in the early 2000s, things change, you make what you can of it. The only other change they'll have to get used to if they move employer is their work and fares actually being logged and auditable boo hoo, they had it good for a while.

The black cabs are almost an industry all on their own seperate from minicabs though so in that sense, their industry is sort of being killed off.

[nitrodave]

el stovey said:

How much of a difference is Uber actually making to black cab trade?

It seems like a much better alternative, assuming the uber drivers aren't all rapists and murderers. Do they all go through DBS/CRB checks?

I'd imagine it's difficult to gauge, but black cabbies are definitely noticing the effects and this pleases me. I used to spend hundreds of pounds a year on black cabs, much of which was expensed through work, but now I will only use uber for work and private journeys.

It is at least half the cost, the drivers are so much nicer, you don't have to worry about cash, you know what you're paying before you book the car, you know the driver is not going to take a convoluted long trip and over charge you - which has happened SO many times to me, you have all the driver and car details sent to you so you know who the driver is, you can view their feedback from other passengers, you can even play your spotify in their cars!

What's not to like? I can even track my wifes progress as she makes her way home in an uber car.

Black cabbies are some of the nastiest people I've met, it's engrained into their culture. They are not safer than other drivers either. A few years back someone I know was duped by the champagne rapist:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10667...

I think there should be a court case against black cab drivers as their pricing is not transparent and they often rip drivers off by taking the long way round. That needs to be regulated and they seem to get away with it with no form of justice.