Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7
Discussion
xjsdriver said:
OpulentBob said:
The silence from the pro-union Scots is pretty significant. Why don't they tell the nat nesbits to belt up and feck orf more publicly? Because all we see and hear south of the border is "English b
d scum tory filth" and how we're being propped up by them and how it's time to change and "look at my Westminster chip butty". Let's hear from the unionists a bit more and maybe that'll change some opinions!
I thought you were out in India, Bob? Living the life wishing it was pre-1947, eh? Reminiscing about days of Empire gone..... bet you're still smarting over Ireland leaving the Union. d scum tory filth" and how we're being propped up by them and how it's time to change and "look at my Westminster chip butty". Let's hear from the unionists a bit more and maybe that'll change some opinions! 
xjsdriver said:
OpulentBob said:
The silence from the pro-union Scots is pretty significant. Why don't they tell the nat nesbits to belt up and feck orf more publicly? Because all we see and hear south of the border is "English bd scum tory filth" and how we're being propped up by them and how it's time to change and "look at my Westminster chip butty". Let's hear from the unionists a bit more and maybe that'll change some opinions!
I thought you were out in India, Bob? Living the life wishing it was pre-1947, eh? Reminiscing about days of Empire gone..... bet you're still smarting over Ireland leaving the Union. d scum tory filth" and how we're being propped up by them and how it's time to change and "look at my Westminster chip butty". Let's hear from the unionists a bit more and maybe that'll change some opinions! 
Ahoy-hoy Sirrah, got my charwalla and my driver downstairs, about to go and beat them with a stick before going back to the bungalow for chat and chapati, then I may go and shoot a tiger with a blunderbuss.
I'm here but for work only... My heart, head, better half, taxes, car, bank account, mortgage, home office is still back there in Essex...
Strocky said:
You're wasting your time trying to debate with the Unionist poodles on here who let the Daily Moseley and the Torygraph do their thinking for them.
As I said - 'us' and 'them'.I've made this point already elsewhere - the reason Salmond made such a hash of his tribute to Charles Kennedy is that he was genuinely caught in a dilemma of his and the SNP's own making.
Nationalists' modus operandi is to take politics out of the argument and have their supporters believe anyone who opposes their cause for whatever reason is a 'Unionist' and the enemy (this is how they could turn left-wing voters against left-wing parties who actually represented their interest better than the SNP).
Charles Kennedy campaigned for 'Better Together' and was therefor an enemy, so it was difficult for Alex Salmond to (sincerely or otherwise) praise Kennedy, a man whose appeal spanned the political spectrum, without puncturing that unfaltering belief in 'the enemy', so Salmond had to put words in Kennedy's mouth, pervert Kennedy's legacy and cast doubt on Kennedy's loyalty in order to suggest that Kennedy was in some small way sympathetic to the nationalist cause, to either reconcile the praise in Alex's own (closed) mind, or (more likely) save his own face and avoid the embarrassment of the 'cybernats' dancing on Kennedy's grave.
Edited by r11co on Wednesday 3rd June 13:34
OpulentBob said:
You have a dig at the established national media (who happen to be against your politics, but still have a circulation of millions) and then you quote a Wings page as if to make a serious, adult point?
Nesbitastic.
You do know that one of Rab Nesbit's favourite phrases was "We arra people" A term coined by Protestant Unionists to denote that they outnumbered (and therefore in their eyes were more important than) the catholics in Glasgow. So it would seem to appear that Rab C Nesbit is in fact, a Unionist No-voter. So get it right up ye, ye No-voting NESBITS Nesbitastic.
AstonZagato said:
xjsdriver said:
OpulentBob said:
The silence from the pro-union Scots is pretty significant. Why don't they tell the nat nesbits to belt up and feck orf more publicly? Because all we see and hear south of the border is "English bd scum tory filth" and how we're being propped up by them and how it's time to change and "look at my Westminster chip butty". Let's hear from the unionists a bit more and maybe that'll change some opinions!
I thought you were out in India, Bob? Living the life wishing it was pre-1947, eh? Reminiscing about days of Empire gone..... bet you're still smarting over Ireland leaving the Union. d scum tory filth" and how we're being propped up by them and how it's time to change and "look at my Westminster chip butty". Let's hear from the unionists a bit more and maybe that'll change some opinions! xjsdriver said:
AstonZagato said:
xjsdriver said:
OpulentBob said:
The silence from the pro-union Scots is pretty significant. Why don't they tell the nat nesbits to belt up and feck orf more publicly? Because all we see and hear south of the border is "English bd scum tory filth" and how we're being propped up by them and how it's time to change and "look at my Westminster chip butty". Let's hear from the unionists a bit more and maybe that'll change some opinions!
I thought you were out in India, Bob? Living the life wishing it was pre-1947, eh? Reminiscing about days of Empire gone..... bet you're still smarting over Ireland leaving the Union. d scum tory filth" and how we're being propped up by them and how it's time to change and "look at my Westminster chip butty". Let's hear from the unionists a bit more and maybe that'll change some opinions! xjsdriver said:
OpulentBob said:
You have a dig at the established national media (who happen to be against your politics, but still have a circulation of millions) and then you quote a Wings page as if to make a serious, adult point?
Nesbitastic.
You do know that one of Rab Nesbit's favourite phrases was "We arra people" A term coined by Protestant Unionists to denote that they outnumbered (and therefore in their eyes were more important than) the catholics in Glasgow. So it would seem to appear that Rab C Nesbit is in fact, a Unionist No-voter. So get it right up ye, ye No-voting NESBITS Nesbitastic.
I've said it before, it's one of my ma's scottishisms... I never understood Rab C, I had to get her to translate for me back in the day... AstonZagato said:
Salmond is an able and experienced politician. Indeed he was lauded here by the Nats as a giant who made his Westminster politicians look like pygmies.
So he was asked a question on Better Together. Big deal. He had a number of choices, including:
Given his choices, he was either being stupid or venal (or possibly even both).
Exactamundo.So he was asked a question on Better Together. Big deal. He had a number of choices, including:
- He could have avoided it - "His stance in that debate isn't relevant and we should concentrate on his achievements"
- He could have embraced it - "He was an honourable man who fought for what he believed in. I might not have agreed with his stance, but I respected his commitment"
Given his choices, he was either being stupid or venal (or possibly even both).
Salmond has no class. He couldn't pass up an opportunity for a dig.
simoid said:
Nationalists think there's "them and us". Nationalists and unionists.
In reality there's nationalists, folk who aren't particularly fussed but saw independence as daft, and unionists.
Yup, but the problem for Scotland is that Nationalists are also a party in government, trusted to look after the day-to-day running of a region of the UK in the interests of it's citizens, but they have neglected that duty while pursuing an obssessive cause, put Scotland in political stasis for two years while they prioritised campaigning over governing, and still have no strategy to run the region properly.In reality there's nationalists, folk who aren't particularly fussed but saw independence as daft, and unionists.
Their claim is that they do not have the levers of power to achieve what they want, yet previous Scottish Governments achieved more with fewer powers than the SNP have today (thanks to Calman) and will have in future (thanks to Smith).
This is where the narrative of criticism of the SNP should be targeted.
r11co said:
Strocky said:
You're wasting your time trying to debate with the Unionist poodles on here who let the Daily Moseley and the Torygraph do their thinking for them.
As I said - 'us' and 'them'.I've made this point already elsewhere - the reason Salmond made such a hash of his tribute to Charles Kennedy is that he was genuinely caught in a dilemma of his and the SNP's own making.
Nationalists' modus operandi is to take politics out of the argument and have their supporters believe anyone who opposes their cause for whatever reason is a 'Unionist' and the enemy (this is how they could turn left-wing voters against left-wing parties who actually represented their interest better than the SNP).
Charles Kennedy campaigned for 'Better Together' and was therefor an enemy, so it was difficult for Alex Salmond to (sincerely or otherwise) praise Kennedy, a man whose appeal spanned the political spectrum, without puncturing that unfaltering belief in 'the enemy', so Salmond had to put words in Kennedy's mouth, pervert Kennedy's legacy and cast doubt on Kennedy's loyalty in order to suggest that Kennedy was in some small way sympathetic to the nationalist cause, to either reconcile the praise in Alex's own (closed) mind, or (more likely) save his own face and avoid the embarrassment of the 'cybernats' dancing on Kennedy's grave.
Edited by r11co on Wednesday 3rd June 13:34
I'm glad you referenced the Daily Mail & Telegraph in your "them & us" analysis, a quick look at the comments section highlights the vitriol flowing from South to North aided by a certain section of the media stoking the flames of intolerance whilst ironically trying to point out the intolerance in Nationalism of any kind (whilst being earnest in favour of their flavour of Nationalism)
Using selective quoting to direct answers from an interviewer in isolation to paint a narrative that suits an agenda is pretty poor form and those with half a brain will see through the transparency and paucity of the premise
The rest of your "dancing on the grave" nonsense is pure projection (and of the same "values" you're accusing the Independence voters of displaying)
Strocky said:
That wasn't what Salmond meant though...
How can you surmise his intentions at the time? If you are referring to his backtracking that is irrelevant.Strocky said:
I'm glad you referenced the Daily Mail & Telegraph in your "them & us" analysis
Your reference, not mine. I was just quoting you, but you are now using your own words to back up your assertions.r11co said:
simoid said:
Nationalists think there's "them and us". Nationalists and unionists.
In reality there's nationalists, folk who aren't particularly fussed but saw independence as daft, and unionists.
Yup, but the problem for Scotland is that Nationalists are also a party in government, trusted to look after the day-to-day running of a region of the UK in the interests of it's citizens, but they have neglected that duty while pursuing an obssessive cause, put Scotland in political stasis for two years while they prioritised campaigning over governing, and still have no strategy to run the region properly.In reality there's nationalists, folk who aren't particularly fussed but saw independence as daft, and unionists.
Their claim is that they do not have the levers of power to achieve what they want, yet previous Scottish Governments achieved more with fewer powers than the SNP have today (thanks to Calman) and will have in future (thanks to Smith).
This is where the narrative of criticism of the SNP should be targeted.
Regarding Calman (we'll ignore your mention of the Smith Commission as a valid criticism of Holyrood based on the small fact that this particular act has yet to enacted) for having not used the main extra powers granted, the Calman Act gave extra powers to the Scottish Parliament most notably -:
The ability to raise or lower income tax by 10p in the pound. Any change is applied equally across all tax bands (
Control of stamp duty and landfill tax
The ability to borrow money, up to £2.2 billion a year
Guaranteed Scottish representation in the BBC and Crown Estate
Legislative control over several more issues including limited powers relating to drugs, driving, and guns
Now other than NOT raising or lowering Income Tax, Holyrood has used their devolved powers to change existing UK legislation on the above (usually to great wails from the Scottish Tories)
r11co said:
Strocky said:
That wasn't what Salmond meant though...
How can you surmise his intentions at the time? If you are referring to his backtracking that is irrelevant.Strocky said:
I'm glad you referenced the Daily Mail & Telegraph in your "them & us" analysis
Your reference, not mine. I was just quoting you, but you are now using your own words to back up your assertions.r11co said:
Strocky said:
Can you qualify what "more" was achieved by these other SG?
Starter for 10!Education (something close to my heart) - Scotland has just experienced its first decline in literacy and numeracy standards since devolution.
Edited by r11co on Wednesday 3rd June 14:47
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