Egypt Air flight MS804 missing!
Discussion
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/egy...
EgyptAir flight MS804: Pilot spoke with air traffic control 'for several minutes before crash'
EgyptAir flight MS804: Pilot spoke with air traffic control 'for several minutes before crash'
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
There used to be a RAF Flight Safety poster that stated: "In an Emergency, FLY THE AIRCRAFT".
I'll repeat that, just so the hard of thinking get it. "FLY THE AIRCRAFT".
If you forget this piece of sage advice you end up like Air France 447, or British Midland 92.
The next thing you do is deal with the Emergency. I can tell you from personal experience that no emergency is ever exactly like you what have practiced in the Sim (or, indeed, practiced airborne). Thus, despite how well trained you are, an emergency can be quite (brain) capacity sapping. Again, I can tell you this from personal experience.
Once you've done that, then you think about telling someone. Telling someone early, when you haven't got a handle on what's going on is guaranteed to mean you won't have given them enough infomation and it is guaranteed that they will come back with all sorts of Qs just when you are busy trying to action your Red Card drills (or whatever). Thereby sapping your capacity to cope further.
That is the way you do it. That is the only way you do it.
Now, those Microsoft Flight Sim Qualified Armchair Experts on this thread can chose to believe me (an ex RAF Multi-Engined Pilot and Qualified Flying Instructor), can chose to believe those qualified Airline pilots on this thread such as pushthebutton, el stovey, et al or, alternatively, you can continue to insist you know better about our profession than we do.
In which case, gentlemen, you are f
king idiots.
Oh, you were/are a pilot, funny that you have never mentioned it.....I'll repeat that, just so the hard of thinking get it. "FLY THE AIRCRAFT".
If you forget this piece of sage advice you end up like Air France 447, or British Midland 92.
The next thing you do is deal with the Emergency. I can tell you from personal experience that no emergency is ever exactly like you what have practiced in the Sim (or, indeed, practiced airborne). Thus, despite how well trained you are, an emergency can be quite (brain) capacity sapping. Again, I can tell you this from personal experience.
Once you've done that, then you think about telling someone. Telling someone early, when you haven't got a handle on what's going on is guaranteed to mean you won't have given them enough infomation and it is guaranteed that they will come back with all sorts of Qs just when you are busy trying to action your Red Card drills (or whatever). Thereby sapping your capacity to cope further.
That is the way you do it. That is the only way you do it.
Now, those Microsoft Flight Sim Qualified Armchair Experts on this thread can chose to believe me (an ex RAF Multi-Engined Pilot and Qualified Flying Instructor), can chose to believe those qualified Airline pilots on this thread such as pushthebutton, el stovey, et al or, alternatively, you can continue to insist you know better about our profession than we do.
In which case, gentlemen, you are f
king idiots.Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Saturday 21st May 23:37
Its a thread on a motoring website, it isnt an AAIB report, people are allowed an opinion and perhaps to be wrong without being called a "f
king Idiot".J4CKO said:
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
There used to be a RAF Flight Safety poster that stated: "In an Emergency, FLY THE AIRCRAFT".
I'll repeat that, just so the hard of thinking get it. "FLY THE AIRCRAFT".
If you forget this piece of sage advice you end up like Air France 447, or British Midland 92.
The next thing you do is deal with the Emergency. I can tell you from personal experience that no emergency is ever exactly like you what have practiced in the Sim (or, indeed, practiced airborne). Thus, despite how well trained you are, an emergency can be quite (brain) capacity sapping. Again, I can tell you this from personal experience.
Once you've done that, then you think about telling someone. Telling someone early, when you haven't got a handle on what's going on is guaranteed to mean you won't have given them enough infomation and it is guaranteed that they will come back with all sorts of Qs just when you are busy trying to action your Red Card drills (or whatever). Thereby sapping your capacity to cope further.
That is the way you do it. That is the only way you do it.
Now, those Microsoft Flight Sim Qualified Armchair Experts on this thread can chose to believe me (an ex RAF Multi-Engined Pilot and Qualified Flying Instructor), can chose to believe those qualified Airline pilots on this thread such as pushthebutton, el stovey, et al or, alternatively, you can continue to insist you know better about our profession than we do.
In which case, gentlemen, you are fking idiots.
Oh, you were/are a pilot, funny that you have never mentioned it.....I'll repeat that, just so the hard of thinking get it. "FLY THE AIRCRAFT".
If you forget this piece of sage advice you end up like Air France 447, or British Midland 92.
The next thing you do is deal with the Emergency. I can tell you from personal experience that no emergency is ever exactly like you what have practiced in the Sim (or, indeed, practiced airborne). Thus, despite how well trained you are, an emergency can be quite (brain) capacity sapping. Again, I can tell you this from personal experience.
Once you've done that, then you think about telling someone. Telling someone early, when you haven't got a handle on what's going on is guaranteed to mean you won't have given them enough infomation and it is guaranteed that they will come back with all sorts of Qs just when you are busy trying to action your Red Card drills (or whatever). Thereby sapping your capacity to cope further.
That is the way you do it. That is the only way you do it.
Now, those Microsoft Flight Sim Qualified Armchair Experts on this thread can chose to believe me (an ex RAF Multi-Engined Pilot and Qualified Flying Instructor), can chose to believe those qualified Airline pilots on this thread such as pushthebutton, el stovey, et al or, alternatively, you can continue to insist you know better about our profession than we do.
In which case, gentlemen, you are f
king idiots.Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Saturday 21st May 23:37
Its a thread on a motoring website, it isnt an AAIB report, people are allowed an opinion and perhaps to be wrong without being called a "f
king Idiot".Something like a descent due to smoke is something worth asking about if you can, so as not to turn one event into something else, ie nice to know you're cleared down, helps you concentrate on what you need to.
Truth is, there are no hard and fast rules, only principles and ways of approaching whatever you may have going on. And interestingly, in commercial circles, often the first port of call for an incident or potential incident will be the Company's own ops centre if they're in range on company frequency. They don't always like to "advertise" an issue.
Radio comms is generally rubbish anyway, ATC sometimes don't understand whats going on, have to repeat stuff etc. Just wastes time.
Listen to the ATC for the "Hudson" incident and it took ATC several goes to actually compute what the pilot was saying which is, we have no engines!
That just did not make sense to them. Then the info coming back was very simple. Cant. Wont. We will be in the Hudson. Etc. Minimal info. That's all at <3000' with normal cabin pressure, no smoke, noise etc.
Listen to the ATC for the "Hudson" incident and it took ATC several goes to actually compute what the pilot was saying which is, we have no engines!
That just did not make sense to them. Then the info coming back was very simple. Cant. Wont. We will be in the Hudson. Etc. Minimal info. That's all at <3000' with normal cabin pressure, no smoke, noise etc.
The Spruce goose said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/egy...
EgyptAir flight MS804: Pilot spoke with air traffic control 'for several minutes before crash'
Why would the Egyptians lie about this? Doesn't make any sense, it's all recorded and will come out anyway. EgyptAir flight MS804: Pilot spoke with air traffic control 'for several minutes before crash'
mondeoman said:
The Spruce goose said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/egy...
EgyptAir flight MS804: Pilot spoke with air traffic control 'for several minutes before crash'
Why would the Egyptians lie about this? Doesn't make any sense, it's all recorded and will come out anyway. EgyptAir flight MS804: Pilot spoke with air traffic control 'for several minutes before crash'
The only certainty is waiting for the full investigation.
I turn off the news now when the experts are wheeled out and interviews by wannabe reporters reading auto queue.
jmorgan said:
mondeoman said:
The Spruce goose said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/egy...
EgyptAir flight MS804: Pilot spoke with air traffic control 'for several minutes before crash'
Why would the Egyptians lie about this? Doesn't make any sense, it's all recorded and will come out anyway. EgyptAir flight MS804: Pilot spoke with air traffic control 'for several minutes before crash'
The only certainty is waiting for the full investigation.
I turn off the news now when the experts are wheeled out and interviews by wannabe reporters reading auto queue.
He'd clearly just gone on some web forums and made some glib statements about "airline procedures" etc without actually saying anything.
If this turns out to be a lipo battery fire, and that is a big "if", the implications for air travel are huge aren't they? It's interesting that on some airlines, if you need to put a bag in the hold when actually boarded, eg not enough room in overhead lockers, they make you take a laptop or tablet out and keep it with you because of the battery! And yet surely the hold already has such items anyway?
Configuration wise, if smoke developed in the front of the a/c could this be from the hold? Does it go that far forward?
Configuration wise, if smoke developed in the front of the a/c could this be from the hold? Does it go that far forward?
rohrl said:
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
...gentlemen, you are fking idiots.
And there's that legendary charm of PH's most pointlessly argumentative member once again.king idiots."Now, those Microsoft Flight Sim Qualified Armchair Experts on this thread can chose to believe me (an ex RAF Multi-Engined Pilot and Qualified Flying Instructor), can chose to believe those qualified Airline pilots on this thread such as pushthebutton, el stovey, et al or, alternatively, you can continue to insist you know better about our profession than we do.
In which case, gentlemen, you are fking idiots."
Lefty said:
rohrl said:
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
...gentlemen, you are fking idiots.
And there's that legendary charm of PH's most pointlessly argumentative member once again.king idiots."Now, those Microsoft Flight Sim Qualified Armchair Experts on this thread can chose to believe me (an ex RAF Multi-Engined Pilot and Qualified Flying Instructor), can chose to believe those qualified Airline pilots on this thread such as pushthebutton, el stovey, et al or, alternatively, you can continue to insist you know better about our profession than we do.
In which case, gentlemen, you are fking idiots."
TheJimi said:
I'm with Ginetta on this one.
What you're seeing in GG's post is a manifestation of exasperation.
I've only read a few pages back and I can understand why.What you're seeing in GG's post is a manifestation of exasperation.
Somone qualified explains why something is like it is. Its not their opinion, its rules and procedure based on decades of experience and investigations from the manufacturers, operators and regulators.
Someone else with no qualification or experience argues that they are all wrong!!!!!
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