Farage in Brussels - a national embarrassment

[danllama]

eharding said:

What would your remedy have been to stop the boats arriving?

I have no idea, It's not my job. I'm just a photographer.

Surely all those big heads knocking together in Brussels could have thought something up?

Here's something off the top of my head, camps somewhere closer to home with proper registration and care, so that they can easily return when it's all sorted?

Is that much too logical?

[danllama]

SeeFive said:

And just as importantly, so should the poor souls who were encouraged to make the perilous, arduous and expensive journey that Merkel invited them to make.

It is not all about the EU. It is about a fair opportunity for all to come here, and of course dealing with true refugees.

Indeed. Imagine the number of people in genuine need who are suffering because of her open invitation?

[lostkiwi]

eharding said:

danllama said:

lostkiwi said:

Trust who to handle? The EU? The Greeks? How do you handle boatloads of people landing anywhere along a thousand miles of coastline? Those boats were so small as to be almost invisible to radar.

Yes the EU. So we're in agreement the EU was and is completely incompetent in dealing with this crisis?

Excuses are not acceptable. The organisation is not fit for purpose.

What would your remedy have been to stop the boats arriving?

Is it even ethically right to deny humanitarian aid to refugees?

[eharding]

SeeFive said:

As well as the driver's passport, my brother's passport was in the lorry, and one of the stowaways actually looked like his photo. So then they were potentially on a people trafficking charge when Clouseau called him to announce that they were holding his driver, and if he went out there would hold him as well.

Why was your brother's passport in a lorry on the continent when he was, as I understand it, in the UK?

[danllama]

lostkiwi said:

eharding said:

danllama said:

lostkiwi said:

Trust who to handle? The EU? The Greeks? How do you handle boatloads of people landing anywhere along a thousand miles of coastline? Those boats were so small as to be almost invisible to radar.

Yes the EU. So we're in agreement the EU was and is completely incompetent in dealing with this crisis?

Excuses are not acceptable. The organisation is not fit for purpose.

What would your remedy have been to stop the boats arriving?

Is it even ethically right to deny humanitarian aid to refugees?

Come on now, I didn't say or even imply that did I?

[SeeFive]

eharding said:

Why was your brother's passport in a lorry on the continent when he was, as I understand it, in the UK?

My brother was sick, and cancelled off the trip last minute en route. Forgot to remove his passport from the cab.

[lostkiwi]

danllama said:

SeeFive said:

And just as importantly, so should the poor souls who were encouraged to make the perilous, arduous and expensive journey that Merkel invited them to make.

It is not all about the EU. It is about a fair opportunity for all to come here, and of course dealing with true refugees.

Indeed. Imagine the number of people in genuine need who are suffering because of her open invitation?

Merkel speaks for Germany, not the EU.

[danllama]

lostkiwi said:

danllama said:

SeeFive said:

And just as importantly, so should the poor souls who were encouraged to make the perilous, arduous and expensive journey that Merkel invited them to make.

It is not all about the EU. It is about a fair opportunity for all to come here, and of course dealing with true refugees.

Indeed. Imagine the number of people in genuine need who are suffering because of her open invitation?

Merkel speaks for Germany, not the EU.

What did the EU do in response to her ridiculous invite? Reprimand her?

[SeeFive]

lostkiwi said:

Merkel speaks for Germany, not the EU.

Riiiight. Tell Sweden that.

[lostkiwi]

danllama said:

lostkiwi said:

eharding said:

danllama said:

lostkiwi said:

Trust who to handle? The EU? The Greeks? How do you handle boatloads of people landing anywhere along a thousand miles of coastline? Those boats were so small as to be almost invisible to radar.

Yes the EU. So we're in agreement the EU was and is completely incompetent in dealing with this crisis?

Excuses are not acceptable. The organisation is not fit for purpose.

What would your remedy have been to stop the boats arriving?

Is it even ethically right to deny humanitarian aid to refugees?

Come on now, I didn't say or even imply that did I?

I never said you did, but once they are on the water what do you do with them?
Send them back?
Camps closer to home already exist but for many that's not an acceptable solution.

[eharding]

SeeFive said:

eharding said:

Why was your brother's passport in a lorry on the continent when he was, as I understand it, in the UK?

My brother was sick, and cancelled off the trip last minute en route. Forgot to remove his passport from the cab.

I see. How often does he get sick and forget to remove his passport from the cab?

[lostkiwi]

danllama said:

lostkiwi said:

danllama said:

SeeFive said:

And just as importantly, so should the poor souls who were encouraged to make the perilous, arduous and expensive journey that Merkel invited them to make.

It is not all about the EU. It is about a fair opportunity for all to come here, and of course dealing with true refugees.

Indeed. Imagine the number of people in genuine need who are suffering because of her open invitation?

Merkel speaks for Germany, not the EU.

What did the EU do in response to her ridiculous invite? Reprimand her?

That would be interference in a states affairs. It's not part of the EU remit to dictate who they can invite to their country from outside the EU.

[SeeFive]

Anyway, despite the diversion strategy, we have agreed that the photographer, who was cited to state THAT SPECIFIC photograph was of refugees didn't mention that emotive term anywhere when maligning UKIP for using it, but did mention migrant many times. I think that the photographer was very level headed as he stated his case.

And that is semantics now, when previously it was "they are not migrants, they are refugees"? And still arguing the toss on the flanks.

I didn't want to get involved in this, but in these times of a totally fked up Merkel led and EU backed migration crisis management strategy confusing migrants with true refugees only weakens the case for proper refugee support. That to me is very important, only in my view of course.

[SeeFive]

eharding said:

I see. How often does he get sick and forget to remove his passport from the cab?

Once. What are you insinuating?

[danllama]

lostkiwi said:

danllama said:

lostkiwi said:

danllama said:

SeeFive said:

And just as importantly, so should the poor souls who were encouraged to make the perilous, arduous and expensive journey that Merkel invited them to make.

It is not all about the EU. It is about a fair opportunity for all to come here, and of course dealing with true refugees.

Indeed. Imagine the number of people in genuine need who are suffering because of her open invitation?

Merkel speaks for Germany, not the EU.

What did the EU do in response to her ridiculous invite? Reprimand her?

That would be interference in a states affairs. It's not part of the EU remit to dictate who they can invite to their country from outside the EU.

Really? But they will happily threaten to fine you £250k for every 'refugee' you don't take.

Hmm...

[lostkiwi]

SeeFive said:

Anyway, despite the diversion strategy, we have agreed that the photographer, who was cited to state THAT SPECIFIC photograph was of refugees didn't mention that emotive term anywhere when maligning UKIP for using it, but did mention migrant many times. I think that the photographer was very level headed as he stated his case.

And that is semantics now, when previously it was "they are not migrants, they are refugees"? And still arguing the toss on the flanks.

I didn't want to get involved in this, but in these times of a totally fked up Merkel led and EU backed migration crisis management strategy confusing migrants with true refugees only weakens the case for proper refugee support. That to me is very important, only in my view of course.

It still doesn't alter that the photo was used out of context (something the photographer himself says) and was therefore misleading which was my original point.

We can argue refugees vs migrants all night long but it still doesn't alter my original point.

[gooner1]

eharding said:

SeeFive said:

eharding said:

Why was your brother's passport in a lorry on the continent when he was, as I understand it, in the UK?

My brother was sick, and cancelled off the trip last minute en route. Forgot to remove his passport from the cab.

I see. How often does he get sick and forget to remove his passport from the cab?

.


How often do you impersonate a Customs official.
Have the bks to say what you really mean.

[eharding]

SeeFive said:

eharding said:

I see. How often does he get sick and forget to remove his passport from the cab?

Once. What are you insinuating?

Based on the information you've provided, that he's been fined for allowing his company to bring in illegal immigrants, and been suspected of people trafficking?

If I'm insinuating anything, it's that he was an idiot for letting his passport out of his sight, and that idiocy seems to be a family trait.

[SeeFive]

lostkiwi said:

It still doesn't alter that the photo was used out of context (something the photographer himself says) and was therefore misleading which was my original point.

We can argue refugees vs migrants all night long but it still doesn't alter my original point.

What point? The one where you repeatedly said that they were refugees in that photo and cited support from the photographer as the version of absolute truth?

I am with you all the way that we need an effective policy to handle refugees, and manage economic migration fairly. We may differ on the detail of that, but that is reasonable. I can even see your point of view on the photograph and respect that. But please, hold up your hands when you are found to be incorrect, and others will respect your perfectly reasonable and potentially correct views more.

It wasn't semantics, you cited support, which was absent. Your statement on the photo is still just a point of view, and not unirrefutable.

No offence meant.

[lostkiwi]

SeeFive said:

lostkiwi said:

It still doesn't alter that the photo was used out of context (something the photographer himself says) and was therefore misleading which was my original point.

We can argue refugees vs migrants all night long but it still doesn't alter my original point.

What point? The one where you repeatedly said that they were refugees in that photo and cited support from the photographer as the version of absolute truth?

I am with you all the way that we need an effective policy to handle refugees, and manage economic migration fairly. We may differ on the detail of that, but that is reasonable. I can even see your point of view on the photograph and respect that. But please, hold up your hands when you are found to be incorrect, and others will respect your perfectly reasonable and potentially correct views more.

It wasn't semantics, you cited support, which was absent. Your statement on the photo is still just a point of view, and not unirrefutable.

No offence meant.

Let me spell it out.
1. I said the photo is misleading as it was used in the context of EU migration.
2. I provided a link to the photographer being interviewed where he said it's usage was misleading.
3. I used the word refugee where the photographer used migrant. Fair do's but given they were from (in the photographer's words and he was there) Syria and Afghanistan it's not unreasonable.
4. I gave details of how to view the rest of the images so they can be viewed in context.


The discussions about the EU handling of the refugee (or migrant if you prefer) crisis is irrelevant in the context of the image as that was never part of the Brexit marketing or a major topic of discussion in the same way as immigration from EU migrants.

I am pretty sure most people would agree given the above the photo was intended to mislead.