War with Russia
Discussion
skyrover said:
Russian separatists shelling Kramators'k, miles from the front line
Possible prelude to a big push?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc9Kh-OL4sQ#t=53
Good move love - stand by the windows while being bombarded.Possible prelude to a big push?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc9Kh-OL4sQ#t=53
scherzkeks said:
Countdown said:
skyrover said:
If roles has been reversed and the USA became involved with Mexico, you would be all over them like a rash.
You might want to brush up on your history. The US did get involved in Mexico. It has regularly been involved in the politics of other Central American countries including supporting some dictators or destabilising others whenever it wanted to.
Anyways, I've mentioned before that the tactics used in Ukraine mimic the destabilization methods the CIA has regularly employed in South America.
Go read my comparison earlier in the thread... there is about as much similarity between the US and Russia as chalk and cheese.
Of course a Putin sympathizer such as yourself is as guilty as the people who keep him in office, or pull the trigger on the front-line.
scherzkeks said:
skyrover said:
I see your argument is as substantive as usual.
Yes, it is. This is where our disconnect seems to occur. That is why your logic is bankrupt. The World has moved on but you Russians are still obsessed with empire-building and "prestige". You think that influence and prosperity come from the barrel of a gun, not through trade and the exchange of ideas. Putin's strategy will fail because it is nihilistic and contrary to every one of its neighbours' interests. Communism, even though it became morally bankrupt, initially had the power to inspire the masses in faraway countries. Putin's kleptocratic state built on intimidation and corruption will not inspire anyone.
You would do better to put your guns away and try to build a modern economy based on more than just expensive oil. Gain influence through trade and ideas. But your leadership is too stupid to do that. And so it seems, are you.
superkartracer said:
Looked like a small Nuke tho
And the man on the internets said -
Dr Douglas McGregor, a researcher in Nuclear Physics at the University of Glasgow, told the Huffington Post: "To my mind the videos show a large explosion, which is most likely to be a very large conventional explosion.
"However, from the pictures I could not categorically rule out a small nuclear explosion. The acid test will be to monitor to see if there is any radioactivity in the vicinity when observers gain access to the site."
Dropped Fag tho inint
Edited by superkartracer on Monday 9th February 20:47
From here
OK, drawn from a memory but still.
You get mushroom clouds after volcanoes pop their corks.
He might be right though. Wait and see.
BTW, never seen a nuke go off myself, apart from films so no idea what a small one looks like so I am probably not qualifies, nay, defiantly not qualified to speculate.
Bluebarge said:
Your disconnect is with most of the modern world. What the CIA did during the Cold War 50 years ago (whilst the Soviet Union was doing worse in Eastern Europe and elsewhere) does not justify Russia now using the same tactics to undermine a democratic neighbour.
That is why your logic is bankrupt. The World has moved on but you Russians are still obsessed with empire-building and "prestige". You think that influence and prosperity come from the barrel of a gun, not through trade and the exchange of ideas. Putin's strategy will fail because it is nihilistic and contrary to every one of its neighbours' interests. Communism, even though it became morally bankrupt, initially had the power to inspire the masses in faraway countries. Putin's kleptocratic state built on intimidation and corruption will not inspire anyone.
You would do better to put your guns away and try to build a modern economy based on more than just expensive oil. Gain influence through trade and ideas. But your leadership is too stupid to do that. And so it seems, are you.
What a gem. You might want to be sure you understood the post before commenting. According to Victoria Nuland, the US spent 5 billion in fomenting anti-government opposition pre-coup. Oh, and I'm American. That is why your logic is bankrupt. The World has moved on but you Russians are still obsessed with empire-building and "prestige". You think that influence and prosperity come from the barrel of a gun, not through trade and the exchange of ideas. Putin's strategy will fail because it is nihilistic and contrary to every one of its neighbours' interests. Communism, even though it became morally bankrupt, initially had the power to inspire the masses in faraway countries. Putin's kleptocratic state built on intimidation and corruption will not inspire anyone.
You would do better to put your guns away and try to build a modern economy based on more than just expensive oil. Gain influence through trade and ideas. But your leadership is too stupid to do that. And so it seems, are you.
scherzkeks said:
Bluebarge said:
Your disconnect is with most of the modern world. What the CIA did during the Cold War 50 years ago (whilst the Soviet Union was doing worse in Eastern Europe and elsewhere) does not justify Russia now using the same tactics to undermine a democratic neighbour.
That is why your logic is bankrupt. The World has moved on but you Russians are still obsessed with empire-building and "prestige". You think that influence and prosperity come from the barrel of a gun, not through trade and the exchange of ideas. Putin's strategy will fail because it is nihilistic and contrary to every one of its neighbours' interests. Communism, even though it became morally bankrupt, initially had the power to inspire the masses in faraway countries. Putin's kleptocratic state built on intimidation and corruption will not inspire anyone.
You would do better to put your guns away and try to build a modern economy based on more than just expensive oil. Gain influence through trade and ideas. But your leadership is too stupid to do that. And so it seems, are you.
What a gem. You might want to be sure you understood the post before commenting. According to Victoria Nuland, the US spent 5 billion in fomenting anti-government opposition pre-coup. Oh, and I'm American. That is why your logic is bankrupt. The World has moved on but you Russians are still obsessed with empire-building and "prestige". You think that influence and prosperity come from the barrel of a gun, not through trade and the exchange of ideas. Putin's strategy will fail because it is nihilistic and contrary to every one of its neighbours' interests. Communism, even though it became morally bankrupt, initially had the power to inspire the masses in faraway countries. Putin's kleptocratic state built on intimidation and corruption will not inspire anyone.
You would do better to put your guns away and try to build a modern economy based on more than just expensive oil. Gain influence through trade and ideas. But your leadership is too stupid to do that. And so it seems, are you.
Nice try. But still living on Planet Fruit-Loop.
And you ignored the bit about Putin's strategy. What exactly is in it for anyone who isn't Russian and addicted to Rambo films?
Ahmed
Your disconnect is with most of the modern world. What the CIA did during the Cold War 50 years ago (whilst the Soviet Union was doing worse in Eastern Europe and elsewhere) does not justify Russia now using the same tactics to undermine a democratic neighbour.Venezuela, Somalia, Yemen, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan and now Ukraine. These are all countries post cold war that the USA has either tried to force the change of government through covert means or have overtly violently overthrown governments.
The USA and Europe have supported violent dictatorships to suppress and kill pro democratic protests, including supplying weapons with which to do this. These same theocratic regimes are the world's primary exporters of Wahhabist fundamentalist doctrine, terrorists and funding.
The argument of American exceptionalism and the beacons of freedom and democracy are a manufactured narrative. Russia and Putin are not paragons of democratic virtue but to be blinded to the real politik of the world is either willful, ignorant or both.
Bluebarge said:
scherzkeks said:
skyrover said:
I see your argument is as substantive as usual.
Yes, it is. This is where our disconnect seems to occur. The USA and Europe have supported violent dictatorships to suppress and kill pro democratic protests, including supplying weapons with which to do this. These same theocratic regimes are the world's primary exporters of Wahhabist fundamentalist doctrine, terrorists and funding.
The argument of American exceptionalism and the beacons of freedom and democracy are a manufactured narrative. Russia and Putin are not paragons of democratic virtue but to be blinded to the real politik of the world is either willful, ignorant or both.
QuantumTokoloshi said:
. Russia and Putin are not paragons of democratic virtue but to be blinded to the real politik of the world is either willful, ignorant or both.
Heh, on that note. One of the United States' most instrumental individuals in spreading empire largely shares this point of view. See the Kissenger/Chomsky piece I posted earlier.BBC: "US President Barack Obama says yes to diplomacy, but then adds: "Now, it is true that if, in fact, diplomacy fails, what I've asked my team to do is to look at all options."
I wonder if that will include "volunteers" on day release from the US military? Now that would be interesting...
scherzkeks said:
Bluebarge said:
Gain influence through trade and ideas. But your leadership is too stupid to do that . . .
What a gem. You might want to be sure you understood the post before commenting. According to Victoria Nuland, the US spent 5 billion in fomenting anti-government opposition pre-coup. Oh, and I'm American. 
t storm started when Moscow did exactly what Bluebarge recommended, and offerred Ukraine a very juicy trade deal. 'We' cried foul and threw our weight behind a coup against the government that signed it (you knew what was on the cards as soon as the 'elected government of Ukraine' became the 'Yanukovych regime' . . . )QuantumTokoloshi said:
Venezuela, Somalia, Yemen, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan and now Ukraine. These are all countries post cold war that the USA has either tried to force the change of government through covert means or have overtly violently overthrown governments.
Or consider Kosovo - a state hewn by overwhelming force from within the internationally recognised borders of the sovereign Republic of Yugoslavia, with a prolonged bombing campaign that included numerous civilian targets. Compare and contrast with the near bloodless succession of Crimea from Ukraine . . . Octoposse said:
Quite so. Hilarious given that this whole st storm started when Moscow did exactly what Bluebarge recommended, and offerred Ukraine a very juicy trade deal.
Sigh. More manipulation of the truth. Ukraine was offered an EU trade deal. There was nothing to stop the Ukraine also having a trade deal with Russia. Russia objected to the EU deal because it feared economic competition, loss of influence and the effect of liberalisation on its borders. Russia then leant on Yanukovych to ditch the EU trade deal. When he did so, the popular backlash against Russian interference led to the fall of "Moscow's man". Them's the facts. Not the bt storm started when Moscow did exactly what Bluebarge recommended, and offerred Ukraine a very juicy trade deal. ks you watch on RT or the historical revisionism spouted by the "American citizens" 
on here.Octoposse said:
scherzkeks said:
Bluebarge said:
Gain influence through trade and ideas. But your leadership is too stupid to do that . . .
What a gem. You might want to be sure you understood the post before commenting. According to Victoria Nuland, the US spent 5 billion in fomenting anti-government opposition pre-coup. Oh, and I'm American. t storm started when Moscow did exactly what Bluebarge recommended, and offerred Ukraine a very juicy trade deal. 'We' cried foul and threw our weight behind a coup against the government that signed it (you knew what was on the cards as soon as the 'elected government of Ukraine' became the 'Yanukovych regime' . . . )http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/hun...
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/yanu...
Octoposse said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Venezuela, Somalia, Yemen, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan and now Ukraine. These are all countries post cold war that the USA has either tried to force the change of government through covert means or have overtly violently overthrown governments.
Or consider Kosovo - a state hewn by overwhelming force from within the internationally recognised borders of the sovereign Republic of Yugoslavia, with a prolonged bombing campaign that included numerous civilian targets. Compare and contrast with the near bloodless succession of Crimea from Ukraine . . . Crimea = The bad guys.
Remember what the BBC, CNN etc. Have told you
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