Scotland after the vote
Discussion
pcvdriver said:
HenryJM said:
Where are you getting these commitments from? Who says they were talking about being 'in the black' by the next election?
Er....The coalition. I believe it was one of their main promises to the electorate, in their bid to gain power, which is why so many mugs voted for them in the last general election. So yes, it is a case of yet again, more Tory lies. Or shall we be a bit kinder to them and simply dismiss it as sheer and utter incompetence?.....HenryJM said:
Well firstly the coalition was only formed after the election, there were no promises made by the coalition to the electorate. But as individual parties I don't believe there were any such promises made.
But one thing you will find a lot of consensus on amongst economists is that this government has handled the economy very well, given where the economy was to now have the growth levels we have is a good achievement. The next phase is to get the deficit down, but that was always following from the return to growth.
One thing is certain, the only alternative promises were to spend more and generate more deficit, which would have been a very foolish strategy.
Perhaps in hindsight, we may have been better adopting a high deficit policy. We enjoyed spectacular growth in the 50s and 60s with far greater deficits than we do today......a much larger deficit did not appear to hinder us back then.But one thing you will find a lot of consensus on amongst economists is that this government has handled the economy very well, given where the economy was to now have the growth levels we have is a good achievement. The next phase is to get the deficit down, but that was always following from the return to growth.
One thing is certain, the only alternative promises were to spend more and generate more deficit, which would have been a very foolish strategy.
Well they start by knowing something of the situation we were in and what actions were called for. As a country with a strong currency that is sovereign/our own we were able to go as we did. Meanwhile although you look at the overall debt level a significant part of that is owned by the UK. It is debt that the UK owes to itself, even pays interest to itself. It could be retired but currently is not but it means around a third of it could be written off in a moment.
If you do some studying on economics you will find that a deficit is what you would expect at this stage in the economic cycle, the time we'd expect it to go would be in the coming years as the economy moves ahead.
But the primary thin is that, unlike iScotland, our currency is our own, just as with QE we can create it, we can repay our debt, we can afford it. Not statements you can make without a currency like sterling.
If you do some studying on economics you will find that a deficit is what you would expect at this stage in the economic cycle, the time we'd expect it to go would be in the coming years as the economy moves ahead.
But the primary thin is that, unlike iScotland, our currency is our own, just as with QE we can create it, we can repay our debt, we can afford it. Not statements you can make without a currency like sterling.
pcvdriver said:
Perhaps in hindsight, we may have been better adopting a high deficit policy. We enjoyed spectacular growth in the 50s and 60s with far greater deficits than we do today......a much larger deficit did not appear to hinder us back then.
How would Scotland do that without its own currency?s2art said:
Overall they have been fairly competent.
Sorry Stuart, I fail to see how double what we owe with no sign of recovery in the next year, as even faintly competent. I see it as sheer and utter abject failure. Total f
king incompetence that makes Goggs Broon look like a financial wizard.pcvdriver said:
Johnnytheboy said:
Seriously, stop digging.
What no remarks on where I'm mistaken? Why's that Jonny? Could it be that your question was answered correctly?....
But you don't seem to understand that you can't eradicate a deficit - and consequently reduce a debt - overnight.
If you genuinely do know how to, I imagine many governments will be keen for you to share your knowledge.
ETA in fact if the yes campaign win this election your skills will be invaluable.
pcvdriver said:
Sorry Stuart, I fail to see how double what we owe with no sign of recovery in the next year, as even faintly competent. I see it as sheer and utter abject failure. Total fking incompetence that makes Goggs Broon look like a financial wizard.
We have an economy today that's larger than it's ever been and a growth rate of around 2.5%, higher than anywhere else in europe and you say "no sign of recovery". You are clueless, utterly clueless.king incompetence that makes Goggs Broon look like a financial wizard.Johnnytheboy said:
All it proved was that you can copy and paste.
But you don't seem to understand that you can't eradicate a deficit - and consequently reduce a debt - overnight.
If you genuinely do know how to, I imagine many governments will be keen for you to share your knowledge.
ETA in fact if the yes campaign win this election your skills will be invaluable.
It seems you don't have the power of comprehension then, either that or you simply chose to ignore my reply to the previous poster who asked the same question....But you don't seem to understand that you can't eradicate a deficit - and consequently reduce a debt - overnight.
If you genuinely do know how to, I imagine many governments will be keen for you to share your knowledge.
ETA in fact if the yes campaign win this election your skills will be invaluable.
HenryJM said:
We have an economy today that's larger than it's ever been and a growth rate of around 2.5%, higher than anywhere else in europe and you say "no sign of recovery". You are clueless, utterly clueless.
Oh and unemployment is now at a five year low and the number of people employed is at a record high...But still "no sign of recovery" in your mind?
[quote=Johnnytheboy]
But you don't seem to understand that you can't eradicate a deficit - and consequently reduce a debt - overnight.
I don't call 4 years as overnight, do you?....... fk, we may have well as all voted Labour last time round!!!! Surely they couldn't have done any worse.
But you don't seem to understand that you can't eradicate a deficit - and consequently reduce a debt - overnight.
I don't call 4 years as overnight, do you?....... f
k, we may have well as all voted Labour last time round!!!! Surely they couldn't have done any worse.pcvdriver said:
I don't call 4 years as overnight, do you?....... fk, we may have well as all voted Labour last time round!!!! Surely they couldn't have done any worse.
Go and read up on some basic economics, entry level stuff, it doesn't need to be complicated.k, we may have well as all voted Labour last time round!!!! Surely they couldn't have done any worse.Anyway, enough of this, it's impossible to debate with someone whose grasp of this is as poor as yours.
HenryJM said:
How would Scotland do that without its own currency?
Who says we won't? ;-) Granted, it is going to be one of the main points of the negotiation process. In my opinion, all this should have been finalised before now. In fact this should have been one of the first things that Westminster and Holyrood should have been arguing the toss about since the inception of Holyrood. Nevertheless, the hand has been dealt, so we have to play the cards we've got.We've been more or less held to gunpoint to choose. I.E. if you choose no - then forget it, oh and we'll make it so you never have the temerity to ask again, ever!!! Oh yeah a really loving and caring Westminster.
pcvdriver said:
What no remarks on where I'm mistaken? Why's that Jonny? Could it be that your question was answered correctly?....
One of the ways I always think about this argument is as follows....A rather unwise family decides to bank on future wage rises and life bring great. As a result, it racks up stupid amount of debt through a very short term assumption. Things are ok though, hubby (and wife) have decent jobs so continue spending..... And as they do, they upgrade their she, car etc. the switch yo Waitrose and reply their mum as housekeeper and dad as Gardner etc etc....
Only issue is that suddenly, their cards and OD are well and truly maxed out and they stop getting pay rises, in fact, one of them gets made redundant!
So, what to do?
Yes, he gets another job and on decent money but less than they were on.... Now the income is clearly less than the day to day outgoings. What to do???
Borrow loads more to survive indefinitely? (Until you go under?) or cut back? Slice back? Get rid of house, cars and 'staff' or simply reduce the outgoings to a level where you don't get repossessed etc or soldier on and ignore the fundamental problem? Get rid of the pressure and work at increasing your income again?
Head in the sand isn't the answer? Nor is cutting and binning everything? I assume?
(That's the short version.....)
HenryJM said:
pcvdriver said:
I don't call 4 years as overnight, do you?....... fk, we may have well as all voted Labour last time round!!!! Surely they couldn't have done any worse.
Go and read up on some basic economics, entry level stuff, it doesn't need to be complicated.k, we may have well as all voted Labour last time round!!!! Surely they couldn't have done any worse.Anyway, enough of this, it's impossible to debate with someone whose grasp of this is as poor as yours.
Do YOU, Henry (or anyone else for that matter) consider that 4 years could be classed as "overnight"? I'm sorry, but not even by the loosest of possible terms could it be described as thus. Awaiting your response with baited breath.
pcvdriver said:
I don't call 4 years as overnight, do you?....... fk, we may have well as all voted Labour last time round!!!! Surely they couldn't have done any worse.
How quickly do you think they should have done it? k, we may have well as all voted Labour last time round!!!! Surely they couldn't have done any worse.Labour had over 2 years in power post the crash - and they didn't appear to be able to even reduce the rate of growth of the debt - let alone reverse it or pay it off.
Given the magnitude of the problem - aren't you being a bit harsh expecting the coalition to have it all done and dusted in a single term?
Look at this graph. There was a peak in public debt in the mid 1990s. From the start of steep rise in debt until it bottomed out again took around 12 years. The current steep rise in debt started around late 2007/early 2008 - so if the current rise/peak/drop follows the same pattern as before - we won't expect to see it bottom out until sometime around 2020 (or perhaps a little later - to allow for the fact that this peak was larger).
Edited by Moonhawk on Saturday 2nd August 22:41
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