Moderate Muslims
Discussion
Sam All said:
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: When you have one bunch of Muslims killing other bunches of Muslims because they both disagree about how to interpret the same book that's all the proof you need that people interpret things differently.
Needs a new 2015 version of the book. AJS- said:
GT03ROB
It's not about going around grilling random Muslim individuals about whether they support stoning though. As I said you could have something like a federation of organisations who agree to some basic values and renounce some common problems. You could identify particular Imams, scholars or political movements within Muslim countries which are genuinely not radical and support these. And you could act more decisively against things like the MB insurgency in Syria. You could avoid cock ups like the ill thought out overthrow of Gaddafi or Saddam Hussein which led to more violence than they prevented. Opportunities like the Arab spring could have been made more of rather than squandered by handing over government to the MB again (in Egypt) and hoping they would turn out to be nice. You could identify genuinely persecuted asylum seekers and offer genuine asylum without opening your doors to thousands of angry young men.
But you need to identify the good guys an the bad guys before you can do any of these things.
You can't just accept these things as an article of faith when millions of Muslims across many Muslim countries clearly do support for these things and when many Muslims in Britain and other western countries clearly have some level of sympathy.
I fear we are going round in circles in this thread & some of us will just have to agree to disagree.It's not about going around grilling random Muslim individuals about whether they support stoning though. As I said you could have something like a federation of organisations who agree to some basic values and renounce some common problems. You could identify particular Imams, scholars or political movements within Muslim countries which are genuinely not radical and support these. And you could act more decisively against things like the MB insurgency in Syria. You could avoid cock ups like the ill thought out overthrow of Gaddafi or Saddam Hussein which led to more violence than they prevented. Opportunities like the Arab spring could have been made more of rather than squandered by handing over government to the MB again (in Egypt) and hoping they would turn out to be nice. You could identify genuinely persecuted asylum seekers and offer genuine asylum without opening your doors to thousands of angry young men.
But you need to identify the good guys an the bad guys before you can do any of these things.
You can't just accept these things as an article of faith when millions of Muslims across many Muslim countries clearly do support for these things and when many Muslims in Britain and other western countries clearly have some level of sympathy.
Edited by AJS- on Tuesday 12th January 09:11
We both agree there are bad Muslims, where we differ is that I accept the majority are good & don't have to prove they are not bad.
I simply fail to understand why Mr Average Muslim should have to prove anything. Anymore than Mr Average Christian or Jew or Hindu or Sikh or Buddhist should. There are many reasons for the violence & destruction spilling out from parts of the middle east, Islam may be the excuse, being Muslim does not however make you violent & destructive.
OpulentBob said:
When I go to Thailand in a month, do I have to stand on a soapbox every day and shout loudly that I am not a white paedophile, and I denounce all white paedophiles, as I'm a white man in a country famed as a destination for white paedophiles?
That would be good, otherwise the local underage girls/boys/boygirls won't know who to trust.Sam All said:
Alpinestars said:
So there are even more divisions? Hmm, not convinced with that.
Joint project between Riyadh & Tehran 
Isn't there a lot in the book you do not agree with?
People invent stuff left, right and centre and claim Muhammad said it, but the funny thing is if you referred back to the Quran, you would see instructions forbidding the recording of anything the prophet said so as to preserve the authenticity of the Quran. The irony is that after the death of Muhammad, the Arabs did exactly the opposite of what was instructed to them in their holy book, hence all the divisions and disagreements that you see today with no less than 73 sects associated to Islam. There is even a sect called the Quranist (self-proclaimed reformists) who accept the Quran as scripture, but rejects the religious authority of the Hadith.
If all these sects cannot agree with each other, and some even kill each other, how can anyone begin to think about the idea of reforming Islam and where to start. Hadiths contradicting the book, hadiths contradicting other hadiths, scholars contradicting other scholars, and everyone is a self-declared prophet (sarcasm alert!) and claims he holds the "truth" to what God/Allah conveyed.
Everyone is different hence the reason you should never lump Muslims together. Everyone thinks differently about their faith, some take quranic verses literally, some take them as symbolism for something else, and some look at them in their historical context. Others, who are mostly uneducated, are not aware of what the book say and rely on hearsay (Hadiths) and so on and so forth. Some even believe Niqab and FGM are cited in the Quran because someone who lives next door told them while they were playing dominos in the local café.
You even get some bright doctors and engineers totally blinded by this crap, disregard the warning signs their brain is giving them, and embrace charlatanism based on what some f
kwit scholar said, thinking Ah it must be Allah's command so I cannot go against it.Islam's biggest weakness is Hadiths, and seeing that people are unwilling to disregard hearesay and invented sayings, there will always be conflicts and sects. Nothing can change that.
Edited by allnighter on Tuesday 12th January 14:25
To get back to Ops original question asking what is a moderate Muslim , I would expect any claiming to be so would subscribe to the following declaration. Minimum.
DECLARATION
A. Peace: National Security, Counterterrorism and Foreign Policy
1. We stand for universal peace, love and compassion. We reject violent jihad. We believe we must target the ideology of violent Islamist extremism in order to liberate individuals from the scourge of oppression and terrorism both in Muslim-majority societies and the West.
2. We stand for the protection of all people of all faiths and non-faith who seek freedom from dictatorships, theocracies and Islamist extremists.
3. We reject bigotry, oppression and violence against all people based on any prejudice, including ethnicity, gender, language, belief, religion, sexual orientation and gender expression.
B. Human Rights: Women's Rights and Minority Rights
1. We stand for human rights and justice. We support equal rights and dignity for all people, including minorities. We support the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights.
2. We reject tribalism, castes, monarchies and patriarchies and consider all people equal with no birth rights other than human rights. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. Muslims don't have an exclusive right to "heaven."
3. We support equal rights for women, including equal rights to inheritance, witness, work, mobility, personal law, education, and employment. Men and women have equal rights in mosques, boards, leadership and all spheres of society. We reject sexism and misogyny.
C. Secular Governance: Freedom of Speech and Religion
1. We are for secular governance, democracy and liberty. We are against political movements in the name of religion. We separate mosque and state. We are loyal to the nations in which we live. We reject the idea of the Islamic state. There is no need for an Islamic caliphate. We oppose institutionalized sharia. Sharia is manmade.
DECLARATION
A. Peace: National Security, Counterterrorism and Foreign Policy
1. We stand for universal peace, love and compassion. We reject violent jihad. We believe we must target the ideology of violent Islamist extremism in order to liberate individuals from the scourge of oppression and terrorism both in Muslim-majority societies and the West.
2. We stand for the protection of all people of all faiths and non-faith who seek freedom from dictatorships, theocracies and Islamist extremists.
3. We reject bigotry, oppression and violence against all people based on any prejudice, including ethnicity, gender, language, belief, religion, sexual orientation and gender expression.
B. Human Rights: Women's Rights and Minority Rights
1. We stand for human rights and justice. We support equal rights and dignity for all people, including minorities. We support the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights.
2. We reject tribalism, castes, monarchies and patriarchies and consider all people equal with no birth rights other than human rights. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. Muslims don't have an exclusive right to "heaven."
3. We support equal rights for women, including equal rights to inheritance, witness, work, mobility, personal law, education, and employment. Men and women have equal rights in mosques, boards, leadership and all spheres of society. We reject sexism and misogyny.
C. Secular Governance: Freedom of Speech and Religion
1. We are for secular governance, democracy and liberty. We are against political movements in the name of religion. We separate mosque and state. We are loyal to the nations in which we live. We reject the idea of the Islamic state. There is no need for an Islamic caliphate. We oppose institutionalized sharia. Sharia is manmade.
charlie7777 said:
To get back to Ops original question asking what is a moderate Muslim , I would expect any claiming to be so would subscribe to the following declaration. Minimum.
DECLARATION
A. Peace: National Security, Counterterrorism and Foreign Policy
1. We stand for universal peace, love and compassion. We reject violent jihad. We believe we must target the ideology of violent Islamist extremism in order to liberate individuals from the scourge of oppression and terrorism both in Muslim-majority societies and the West.
2. We stand for the protection of all people of all faiths and non-faith who seek freedom from dictatorships, theocracies and Islamist extremists.
3. We reject bigotry, oppression and violence against all people based on any prejudice, including ethnicity, gender, language, belief, religion, sexual orientation and gender expression.
B. Human Rights: Women's Rights and Minority Rights
1. We stand for human rights and justice. We support equal rights and dignity for all people, including minorities. We support the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights.
2. We reject tribalism, castes, monarchies and patriarchies and consider all people equal with no birth rights other than human rights. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. Muslims don't have an exclusive right to "heaven."
3. We support equal rights for women, including equal rights to inheritance, witness, work, mobility, personal law, education, and employment. Men and women have equal rights in mosques, boards, leadership and all spheres of society. We reject sexism and misogyny.
C. Secular Governance: Freedom of Speech and Religion
1. We are for secular governance, democracy and liberty. We are against political movements in the name of religion. We separate mosque and state. We are loyal to the nations in which we live. We reject the idea of the Islamic state. There is no need for an Islamic caliphate. We oppose institutionalized sharia. Sharia is manmade.
If I was a Muslim I'd tell you to shove your declaration up where the sun does not shine matey. I do not have to justify my existence or my faith to you, or explain myself to your prejudices so you can sleep at ease at night. So kindly fDECLARATION
A. Peace: National Security, Counterterrorism and Foreign Policy
1. We stand for universal peace, love and compassion. We reject violent jihad. We believe we must target the ideology of violent Islamist extremism in order to liberate individuals from the scourge of oppression and terrorism both in Muslim-majority societies and the West.
2. We stand for the protection of all people of all faiths and non-faith who seek freedom from dictatorships, theocracies and Islamist extremists.
3. We reject bigotry, oppression and violence against all people based on any prejudice, including ethnicity, gender, language, belief, religion, sexual orientation and gender expression.
B. Human Rights: Women's Rights and Minority Rights
1. We stand for human rights and justice. We support equal rights and dignity for all people, including minorities. We support the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights.
2. We reject tribalism, castes, monarchies and patriarchies and consider all people equal with no birth rights other than human rights. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. Muslims don't have an exclusive right to "heaven."
3. We support equal rights for women, including equal rights to inheritance, witness, work, mobility, personal law, education, and employment. Men and women have equal rights in mosques, boards, leadership and all spheres of society. We reject sexism and misogyny.
C. Secular Governance: Freedom of Speech and Religion
1. We are for secular governance, democracy and liberty. We are against political movements in the name of religion. We separate mosque and state. We are loyal to the nations in which we live. We reject the idea of the Islamic state. There is no need for an Islamic caliphate. We oppose institutionalized sharia. Sharia is manmade.
k off!allnighter said:
charlie7777 said:
To get back to Ops original question asking what is a moderate Muslim , I would expect any claiming to be so would subscribe to the following declaration. Minimum.
DECLARATION
A. Peace: National Security, Counterterrorism and Foreign Policy
1. We stand for universal peace, love and compassion. We reject violent jihad. We believe we must target the ideology of violent Islamist extremism in order to liberate individuals from the scourge of oppression and terrorism both in Muslim-majority societies and the West.
2. We stand for the protection of all people of all faiths and non-faith who seek freedom from dictatorships, theocracies and Islamist extremists.
3. We reject bigotry, oppression and violence against all people based on any prejudice, including ethnicity, gender, language, belief, religion, sexual orientation and gender expression.
B. Human Rights: Women's Rights and Minority Rights
1. We stand for human rights and justice. We support equal rights and dignity for all people, including minorities. We support the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights.
2. We reject tribalism, castes, monarchies and patriarchies and consider all people equal with no birth rights other than human rights. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. Muslims don't have an exclusive right to "heaven."
3. We support equal rights for women, including equal rights to inheritance, witness, work, mobility, personal law, education, and employment. Men and women have equal rights in mosques, boards, leadership and all spheres of society. We reject sexism and misogyny.
C. Secular Governance: Freedom of Speech and Religion
1. We are for secular governance, democracy and liberty. We are against political movements in the name of religion. We separate mosque and state. We are loyal to the nations in which we live. We reject the idea of the Islamic state. There is no need for an Islamic caliphate. We oppose institutionalized sharia. Sharia is manmade.
If I was a Muslim I'd tell you to shove your declaration up where the sun does not shine matey. I do not have to justify my existence or my faith to you, or explain myself to your prejudices so you can sleep at ease at night. So kindly fDECLARATION
A. Peace: National Security, Counterterrorism and Foreign Policy
1. We stand for universal peace, love and compassion. We reject violent jihad. We believe we must target the ideology of violent Islamist extremism in order to liberate individuals from the scourge of oppression and terrorism both in Muslim-majority societies and the West.
2. We stand for the protection of all people of all faiths and non-faith who seek freedom from dictatorships, theocracies and Islamist extremists.
3. We reject bigotry, oppression and violence against all people based on any prejudice, including ethnicity, gender, language, belief, religion, sexual orientation and gender expression.
B. Human Rights: Women's Rights and Minority Rights
1. We stand for human rights and justice. We support equal rights and dignity for all people, including minorities. We support the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights.
2. We reject tribalism, castes, monarchies and patriarchies and consider all people equal with no birth rights other than human rights. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. Muslims don't have an exclusive right to "heaven."
3. We support equal rights for women, including equal rights to inheritance, witness, work, mobility, personal law, education, and employment. Men and women have equal rights in mosques, boards, leadership and all spheres of society. We reject sexism and misogyny.
C. Secular Governance: Freedom of Speech and Religion
1. We are for secular governance, democracy and liberty. We are against political movements in the name of religion. We separate mosque and state. We are loyal to the nations in which we live. We reject the idea of the Islamic state. There is no need for an Islamic caliphate. We oppose institutionalized sharia. Sharia is manmade.
k off!allnighter said:
charlie7777 said:
To get back to Ops original question asking what is a moderate Muslim , I would expect any claiming to be so would subscribe to the following declaration. Minimum.
DECLARATION
A. Peace: National Security, Counterterrorism and Foreign Policy
1. We stand for universal peace, love and compassion. We reject violent jihad. We believe we must target the ideology of violent Islamist extremism in order to liberate individuals from the scourge of oppression and terrorism both in Muslim-majority societies and the West.
2. We stand for the protection of all people of all faiths and non-faith who seek freedom from dictatorships, theocracies and Islamist extremists.
3. We reject bigotry, oppression and violence against all people based on any prejudice, including ethnicity, gender, language, belief, religion, sexual orientation and gender expression.
B. Human Rights: Women's Rights and Minority Rights
1. We stand for human rights and justice. We support equal rights and dignity for all people, including minorities. We support the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights.
2. We reject tribalism, castes, monarchies and patriarchies and consider all people equal with no birth rights other than human rights. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. Muslims don't have an exclusive right to "heaven."
3. We support equal rights for women, including equal rights to inheritance, witness, work, mobility, personal law, education, and employment. Men and women have equal rights in mosques, boards, leadership and all spheres of society. We reject sexism and misogyny.
C. Secular Governance: Freedom of Speech and Religion
1. We are for secular governance, democracy and liberty. We are against political movements in the name of religion. We separate mosque and state. We are loyal to the nations in which we live. We reject the idea of the Islamic state. There is no need for an Islamic caliphate. We oppose institutionalized sharia. Sharia is manmade.
If I was a Muslim I'd tell you to shove your declaration up where the sun does not shine matey. I do not have to justify my existence or my faith to you, or explain myself to your prejudices so you can sleep at ease at night. So kindly fDECLARATION
A. Peace: National Security, Counterterrorism and Foreign Policy
1. We stand for universal peace, love and compassion. We reject violent jihad. We believe we must target the ideology of violent Islamist extremism in order to liberate individuals from the scourge of oppression and terrorism both in Muslim-majority societies and the West.
2. We stand for the protection of all people of all faiths and non-faith who seek freedom from dictatorships, theocracies and Islamist extremists.
3. We reject bigotry, oppression and violence against all people based on any prejudice, including ethnicity, gender, language, belief, religion, sexual orientation and gender expression.
B. Human Rights: Women's Rights and Minority Rights
1. We stand for human rights and justice. We support equal rights and dignity for all people, including minorities. We support the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights.
2. We reject tribalism, castes, monarchies and patriarchies and consider all people equal with no birth rights other than human rights. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. Muslims don't have an exclusive right to "heaven."
3. We support equal rights for women, including equal rights to inheritance, witness, work, mobility, personal law, education, and employment. Men and women have equal rights in mosques, boards, leadership and all spheres of society. We reject sexism and misogyny.
C. Secular Governance: Freedom of Speech and Religion
1. We are for secular governance, democracy and liberty. We are against political movements in the name of religion. We separate mosque and state. We are loyal to the nations in which we live. We reject the idea of the Islamic state. There is no need for an Islamic caliphate. We oppose institutionalized sharia. Sharia is manmade.
k off!charlie7777 said:
To get back to Ops original question asking what is a moderate Muslim , I would expect any claiming to be so would subscribe to the following declaration. Minimum.
DECLARATION
A. Peace: National Security, Counterterrorism and Foreign Policy
1. We stand for universal peace, love and compassion. We reject violent jihad. We believe we must target the ideology of violent Islamist extremism in order to liberate individuals from the scourge of oppression and terrorism both in Muslim-majority societies and the West.
2. We stand for the protection of all people of all faiths and non-faith who seek freedom from dictatorships, theocracies and Islamist extremists.
3. We reject bigotry, oppression and violence against all people based on any prejudice, including ethnicity, gender, language, belief, religion, sexual orientation and gender expression.
B. Human Rights: Women's Rights and Minority Rights
1. We stand for human rights and justice. We support equal rights and dignity for all people, including minorities. We support the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights.
2. We reject tribalism, castes, monarchies and patriarchies and consider all people equal with no birth rights other than human rights. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. Muslims don't have an exclusive right to "heaven."
3. We support equal rights for women, including equal rights to inheritance, witness, work, mobility, personal law, education, and employment. Men and women have equal rights in mosques, boards, leadership and all spheres of society. We reject sexism and misogyny.
C. Secular Governance: Freedom of Speech and Religion
1. We are for secular governance, democracy and liberty. We are against political movements in the name of religion. We separate mosque and state. We are loyal to the nations in which we live. We reject the idea of the Islamic state. There is no need for an Islamic caliphate. We oppose institutionalized sharia. Sharia is manmade.
So you want moderate Muslims to sign up to something many native Brits wouldn't? Most Brits seem to support a monarchy, our country is not a secular state, the church & state are not separate, & until very recently men & women did not have equal rights in the church.DECLARATION
A. Peace: National Security, Counterterrorism and Foreign Policy
1. We stand for universal peace, love and compassion. We reject violent jihad. We believe we must target the ideology of violent Islamist extremism in order to liberate individuals from the scourge of oppression and terrorism both in Muslim-majority societies and the West.
2. We stand for the protection of all people of all faiths and non-faith who seek freedom from dictatorships, theocracies and Islamist extremists.
3. We reject bigotry, oppression and violence against all people based on any prejudice, including ethnicity, gender, language, belief, religion, sexual orientation and gender expression.
B. Human Rights: Women's Rights and Minority Rights
1. We stand for human rights and justice. We support equal rights and dignity for all people, including minorities. We support the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights.
2. We reject tribalism, castes, monarchies and patriarchies and consider all people equal with no birth rights other than human rights. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. Muslims don't have an exclusive right to "heaven."
3. We support equal rights for women, including equal rights to inheritance, witness, work, mobility, personal law, education, and employment. Men and women have equal rights in mosques, boards, leadership and all spheres of society. We reject sexism and misogyny.
C. Secular Governance: Freedom of Speech and Religion
1. We are for secular governance, democracy and liberty. We are against political movements in the name of religion. We separate mosque and state. We are loyal to the nations in which we live. We reject the idea of the Islamic state. There is no need for an Islamic caliphate. We oppose institutionalized sharia. Sharia is manmade.
GT03ROB said:
charlie7777 said:
To get back to Ops original question asking what is a moderate Muslim , I would expect any claiming to be so would subscribe to the following declaration. Minimum.
DECLARATION
A. Peace: National Security, Counterterrorism and Foreign Policy
1. We stand for universal peace, love and compassion. We reject violent jihad. We believe we must target the ideology of violent Islamist extremism in order to liberate individuals from the scourge of oppression and terrorism both in Muslim-majority societies and the West.
2. We stand for the protection of all people of all faiths and non-faith who seek freedom from dictatorships, theocracies and Islamist extremists.
3. We reject bigotry, oppression and violence against all people based on any prejudice, including ethnicity, gender, language, belief, religion, sexual orientation and gender expression.
B. Human Rights: Women's Rights and Minority Rights
1. We stand for human rights and justice. We support equal rights and dignity for all people, including minorities. We support the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights.
2. We reject tribalism, castes, monarchies and patriarchies and consider all people equal with no birth rights other than human rights. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. Muslims don't have an exclusive right to "heaven."
3. We support equal rights for women, including equal rights to inheritance, witness, work, mobility, personal law, education, and employment. Men and women have equal rights in mosques, boards, leadership and all spheres of society. We reject sexism and misogyny.
C. Secular Governance: Freedom of Speech and Religion
1. We are for secular governance, democracy and liberty. We are against political movements in the name of religion. We separate mosque and state. We are loyal to the nations in which we live. We reject the idea of the Islamic state. There is no need for an Islamic caliphate. We oppose institutionalized sharia. Sharia is manmade.
So you want moderate Muslims to sign up to something many native Brits wouldn't? Most Brits seem to support a monarchy, our country is not a secular state, the church & state are not separate, & until very recently men & women did not have equal rights in the church.DECLARATION
A. Peace: National Security, Counterterrorism and Foreign Policy
1. We stand for universal peace, love and compassion. We reject violent jihad. We believe we must target the ideology of violent Islamist extremism in order to liberate individuals from the scourge of oppression and terrorism both in Muslim-majority societies and the West.
2. We stand for the protection of all people of all faiths and non-faith who seek freedom from dictatorships, theocracies and Islamist extremists.
3. We reject bigotry, oppression and violence against all people based on any prejudice, including ethnicity, gender, language, belief, religion, sexual orientation and gender expression.
B. Human Rights: Women's Rights and Minority Rights
1. We stand for human rights and justice. We support equal rights and dignity for all people, including minorities. We support the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights.
2. We reject tribalism, castes, monarchies and patriarchies and consider all people equal with no birth rights other than human rights. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. Muslims don't have an exclusive right to "heaven."
3. We support equal rights for women, including equal rights to inheritance, witness, work, mobility, personal law, education, and employment. Men and women have equal rights in mosques, boards, leadership and all spheres of society. We reject sexism and misogyny.
C. Secular Governance: Freedom of Speech and Religion
1. We are for secular governance, democracy and liberty. We are against political movements in the name of religion. We separate mosque and state. We are loyal to the nations in which we live. We reject the idea of the Islamic state. There is no need for an Islamic caliphate. We oppose institutionalized sharia. Sharia is manmade.
3. We reject bigotry, against all people based on any prejudice, including ethnicity, belief, religion,
rules out OP and quite a lot of posters on NP&E.
Puggit said:
Saw this on twitter and saved it a few weeks back...
I agree with you.And the funny thing is, it works for the Irish and the IRA in the 80s.
With regard to Muslims, we socialise with a Muslim family. They are as sound as a pound.
But then little things trickle in, like, adherence to Ramadan, etc...
I was raised a Catholic, but am now an Athiest. If another catholic was to insist upon only eating fish on a Friday, I would be wary of them. For the same reason, I am wary of "moderate" mussies who do the RamaDamaDingDong thing. Fooking madness.
SirBlade said:
I am wary of "moderate" mussies who do the RamaDamaDingDong thing. Fooking madness.
I know what you mean, I also avoid those loons that do the Christmaswishmasthingybobby stuff. Scary people. And as for that fella with a white beard....
Edited by Alpinestars on Tuesday 12th January 18:12
SirBlade said:
With regard to Muslims, we socialise with a Muslim family. They are as sound as a pound.
But then little things trickle in, like, adherence to Ramadan, etc...
I was raised a Catholic, but am now an Athiest. If another catholic was to insist upon only eating fish on a Friday, I would be wary of them. For the same reason, I am wary of "moderate" mussies who do the RamaDamaDingDong thing. Fooking madness.
Not sure if thats serious, but if so I give up But then little things trickle in, like, adherence to Ramadan, etc...
I was raised a Catholic, but am now an Athiest. If another catholic was to insist upon only eating fish on a Friday, I would be wary of them. For the same reason, I am wary of "moderate" mussies who do the RamaDamaDingDong thing. Fooking madness.
charlie7777 said:
To get back to Ops original question asking what is a moderate Muslim , I would expect any claiming to be so would subscribe to the following declaration. Minimum.
DECLARATION
A. Peace: National Security, Counterterrorism and Foreign Policy
1. We stand for universal peace, love and compassion. We reject violent jihad. We believe we must target the ideology of violent Islamist extremism in order to liberate individuals from the scourge of oppression and terrorism both in Muslim-majority societies and the West.
2. We stand for the protection of all people of all faiths and non-faith who seek freedom from dictatorships, theocracies and Islamist extremists.
3. We reject bigotry, oppression and violence against all people based on any prejudice, including ethnicity, gender, language, belief, religion, sexual orientation and gender expression.
B. Human Rights: Women's Rights and Minority Rights
1. We stand for human rights and justice. We support equal rights and dignity for all people, including minorities. We support the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights.
2. We reject tribalism, castes, monarchies and patriarchies and consider all people equal with no birth rights other than human rights. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. Muslims don't have an exclusive right to "heaven."
3. We support equal rights for women, including equal rights to inheritance, witness, work, mobility, personal law, education, and employment. Men and women have equal rights in mosques, boards, leadership and all spheres of society. We reject sexism and misogyny.
C. Secular Governance: Freedom of Speech and Religion
1. We are for secular governance, democracy and liberty. We are against political movements in the name of religion. We separate mosque and state. We are loyal to the nations in which we live. We reject the idea of the Islamic state. There is no need for an Islamic caliphate. We oppose institutionalized sharia. Sharia is manmade.
Seems kind of ironic that you'd ask a Muslim to sign up to something proclaiming democracy, liberty and equal rights for all, whilst only asking a Muslim to sign up to it.DECLARATION
A. Peace: National Security, Counterterrorism and Foreign Policy
1. We stand for universal peace, love and compassion. We reject violent jihad. We believe we must target the ideology of violent Islamist extremism in order to liberate individuals from the scourge of oppression and terrorism both in Muslim-majority societies and the West.
2. We stand for the protection of all people of all faiths and non-faith who seek freedom from dictatorships, theocracies and Islamist extremists.
3. We reject bigotry, oppression and violence against all people based on any prejudice, including ethnicity, gender, language, belief, religion, sexual orientation and gender expression.
B. Human Rights: Women's Rights and Minority Rights
1. We stand for human rights and justice. We support equal rights and dignity for all people, including minorities. We support the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights.
2. We reject tribalism, castes, monarchies and patriarchies and consider all people equal with no birth rights other than human rights. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. Muslims don't have an exclusive right to "heaven."
3. We support equal rights for women, including equal rights to inheritance, witness, work, mobility, personal law, education, and employment. Men and women have equal rights in mosques, boards, leadership and all spheres of society. We reject sexism and misogyny.
C. Secular Governance: Freedom of Speech and Religion
1. We are for secular governance, democracy and liberty. We are against political movements in the name of religion. We separate mosque and state. We are loyal to the nations in which we live. We reject the idea of the Islamic state. There is no need for an Islamic caliphate. We oppose institutionalized sharia. Sharia is manmade.
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