Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6
Discussion
Yep, and my eyes nearly popped out too.
He's accepted the will of the Scottish people, by accepting that they are wrong. And his party aren't going to stop trying to prove it.
He needs f
king locking up, along with Sillars, Swinney and Sturgeon.
And Millibrain is stting himself. I've seen polititians wriggle before, but not as much as that tt did on the Andrew Marr show. He really is trying to avoid the issue of English only votes for English matters. I wonder why that might be.
He's accepted the will of the Scottish people, by accepting that they are wrong. And his party aren't going to stop trying to prove it.
He needs f
king locking up, along with Sillars, Swinney and Sturgeon.And Millibrain is s
tting himself. I've seen polititians wriggle before, but not as much as that tt did on the Andrew Marr show. He really is trying to avoid the issue of English only votes for English matters. I wonder why that might be.el stovey said:
Are you referring to the 1979 Scottish Devolution referendum?
If so that was about a devolved Scottish assembly.
I am and, yes, it wasn't quite the same thing. But the point is that these things don't and won't happen often, quebec did get one 15 years after their first (1980 &1995) but these are things that nobody is going to allow every few years.If so that was about a devolved Scottish assembly.
Salmond, having come out of the whole thing quite well despite losing, is now making a complete t*t of himself. He lost on a massive turnout after a 2 year campaign. He'd do better to shut up for a while and look like a decent loser than a bad one. No politician who sulks after a loss, blames everyone else and refuses the accept the result ever, ever comes out of it well.
HenryJM said:
el stovey said:
Are you referring to the 1979 Scottish Devolution referendum?
If so that was about a devolved Scottish assembly.
I am and, yes, it wasn't quite the same thing. But the point is that these things don't and won't happen often, quebec did get one 15 years after their first (1980 &1995) but these are things that nobody is going to allow every few years.If so that was about a devolved Scottish assembly.
Support for Scottish Independence is clearly increasing. You said support had decreased and used a referendum on something different to try and prove it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides/...
What's more important are the demographics of YES voters indicating that as time goes on, it's likely that support will increase even more.
Edited by el stovey on Sunday 21st September 18:14
el stovey said:
What's more important are the demographics of YES voters indicating that as time goes on, it's likely that support will increase even more.
No one knows what will happen in the future. After the (closer than Scotland) Quebec referendum support for independence fell.Edited by el stovey on Sunday 21st September 18:14
Anyway, supporters of independence would do better to keep quiet and accept the result and see how the land lies in 10,15, 20 years or whatever rather than spout rubbish which looks like anti-democratic bad loser syndrome which will just damage their cause now.
el stovey said:
It wasn't the same thing at all.
Support for Scottish Independence is clearly increasing. You said support had decreased and used a referendum on something different to try and prove it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides/...
What's more important are the demographics of YES voters indicating that as time goes on, it's likely that support will increase even more.
That won't work. Demographics change. Those youthful, "yes" voters will get older in turn and will become more 'conservative'(sic0 in their outlook and voting intentions. It was ever thus.Support for Scottish Independence is clearly increasing. You said support had decreased and used a referendum on something different to try and prove it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides/...
What's more important are the demographics of YES voters indicating that as time goes on, it's likely that support will increase even more.
Edited by el stovey on Sunday 21st September 18:14
el stovey said:
HenryJM said:
el stovey said:
Are you referring to the 1979 Scottish Devolution referendum?
If so that was about a devolved Scottish assembly.
I am and, yes, it wasn't quite the same thing. But the point is that these things don't and won't happen often, quebec did get one 15 years after their first (1980 &1995) but these are things that nobody is going to allow every few years.If so that was about a devolved Scottish assembly.
Support for Scottish Independence is clearly increasing. You said support had decreased and used a referendum on something different to try and prove it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides/...
What's more important are the demographics of YES voters indicating that as time goes on, it's likely that support will increase even more.
Edited by el stovey on Sunday 21st September 18:14
Anyway, El, if you are convinced independence is certain, what should the rUK do about investing strategically in Scotland? Sounds like a poor deal for the rUK when you split and leave with the proceeds of 60m for the benefit of 5m.
Sounds like you think the T26 contract should not go to the Clyde if independence is inevitable, and you only wish ill on the union. What are we all to do?
Blib said:
el stovey said:
It wasn't the same thing at all.
Support for Scottish Independence is clearly increasing. You said support had decreased and used a referendum on something different to try and prove it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides/...
What's more important are the demographics of YES voters indicating that as time goes on, it's likely that support will increase even more.
That won't work. Demographics change. Those youthful, "yes" voters will get older in turn and will become more 'conservative'(sic0 in their outlook and voting intentions. It was ever thus.Support for Scottish Independence is clearly increasing. You said support had decreased and used a referendum on something different to try and prove it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides/...
What's more important are the demographics of YES voters indicating that as time goes on, it's likely that support will increase even more.
Edited by el stovey on Sunday 21st September 18:14
, it's about older people (above 55) having stronger emotional links to the UK and the union. This is about older voters feelings of Britishness from the war and British Empire. Links younger voters apparently tend not to share as strongly. ///ajd said:
It is interesting that when it suits, 1979 is 'last time', yet when the comparison is not positive, it was 'totally different'.
Anyway, El, if you are convinced independence is certain, what should the rUK do about investing strategically in Scotland? Sounds like a poor deal for the rUK when you split and leave with the proceeds of 60m for the benefit of 5m.
Sounds like you think the T26 contract should not go to the Clyde if independence is inevitable, and you only wish ill on the union. What are we all to do?
Quite right. I think it's only a matter of time before Scotland breaks away. I think a Conservative UK government should plan accordingly. I certainly would if I was a Conservative PM. Labour obviously have to concentrate on winning Scotland back and if/when they get in will no doubt do whatever possible to do so.Anyway, El, if you are convinced independence is certain, what should the rUK do about investing strategically in Scotland? Sounds like a poor deal for the rUK when you split and leave with the proceeds of 60m for the benefit of 5m.
Sounds like you think the T26 contract should not go to the Clyde if independence is inevitable, and you only wish ill on the union. What are we all to do?
el stovey said:
Blib said:
el stovey said:
It wasn't the same thing at all.
Support for Scottish Independence is clearly increasing. You said support had decreased and used a referendum on something different to try and prove it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides/...
What's more important are the demographics of YES voters indicating that as time goes on, it's likely that support will increase even more.
That won't work. Demographics change. Those youthful, "yes" voters will get older in turn and will become more 'conservative'(sic0 in their outlook and voting intentions. It was ever thus.Support for Scottish Independence is clearly increasing. You said support had decreased and used a referendum on something different to try and prove it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides/...
What's more important are the demographics of YES voters indicating that as time goes on, it's likely that support will increase even more.
Edited by el stovey on Sunday 21st September 18:14
, it's about older people (above 55) having stronger emotional links to the UK and the union. This is about older voters feelings of Britishness from the war and British Empire. Links younger voters apparently tend not to share as strongly. 
Troubleatmill said:
McWigglebum4th said:
Do you think the SNP are dumb enough to just declare themselves independent anyway?
The stuff I posted above says "Yes"... heck - to paraphrase Salmond "Other countries have just declared they are independent." Keep your packing boxes handy
And once you're over that hurdle, you have the small issue of what you've done being against international law, resulting in non recognition and the imposition of trading sanctions. And, I would think, a fairly strong chance of the Royal Navy taking control of the North Sea and the Army securing the oil terminals.
So I wouldn't worry about it too much. It's just some vocalised bitterness working its way out of their systems.
el stovey said:
Quite right. I think it's only a matter of time before Scotland breaks away. I think a Conservative UK government should plan accordingly. I certainly would if I was a Conservative PM. Labour obviously have to concentrate on winning Scotland back and if/when they get in will no doubt do whatever possible to do so.
That presupposes that Scotland will vote Labour forever - don't forget that within living memory it was a Tory heartland.el stovey said:
This isn't about marxist student revolution , it's about older people (above 55) having stronger emotional links to the UK and the union. This is about older voters feelings of Britishness from the war and British Empire. Links younger voters apparently tend not to share as strongly.
Over 55? Hell they would need to be over 75 to remember the war, and even then they would have been young children. Maybe over 80 then. As for Empire, it was pretty much gone by the 1960's, so again you are looking at the over 70's for them to have much memory of it. I read that Empire didnt mean much to most people even in the 1950's, so again its only the war time generation that it had much resonance with. , it's about older people (above 55) having stronger emotional links to the UK and the union. This is about older voters feelings of Britishness from the war and British Empire. Links younger voters apparently tend not to share as strongly. davepoth said:
el stovey said:
Quite right. I think it's only a matter of time before Scotland breaks away. I think a Conservative UK government should plan accordingly. I certainly would if I was a Conservative PM. Labour obviously have to concentrate on winning Scotland back and if/when they get in will no doubt do whatever possible to do so.
That presupposes that Scotland will vote Labour forever - don't forget that within living memory it was a Tory heartland.el stovey said:
///ajd said:
It is interesting that when it suits, 1979 is 'last time', yet when the comparison is not positive, it was 'totally different'.
Anyway, El, if you are convinced independence is certain, what should the rUK do about investing strategically in Scotland? Sounds like a poor deal for the rUK when you split and leave with the proceeds of 60m for the benefit of 5m.
Sounds like you think the T26 contract should not go to the Clyde if independence is inevitable, and you only wish ill on the union. What are we all to do?
Quite right. I think it's only a matter of time before Scotland breaks away. I think a Conservative UK government should plan accordingly. I certainly would if I was a Conservative PM. Labour obviously have to concentrate on winning Scotland back and if/when they get in will no doubt do whatever possible to do so.Anyway, El, if you are convinced independence is certain, what should the rUK do about investing strategically in Scotland? Sounds like a poor deal for the rUK when you split and leave with the proceeds of 60m for the benefit of 5m.
Sounds like you think the T26 contract should not go to the Clyde if independence is inevitable, and you only wish ill on the union. What are we all to do?
So rUK should award T26 in rUK, and presumably scale back Scottish renewable subsidies from 30% to per capita 8%.
Perhaps the big three could put that in their 2015 manifestos. If Scotland votes in a nationalist majority again in 2016, steps will be taken to make all Scottish investments fair but tactical and per capita, and not strategic to the possible detriment of the rUK in the case of future split.
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