Surveillance state, check - secret trials, check
Discussion
The intention to log every search term you enter into any search engine is worrying too.
Presumably they will keyword search whatever you put in. You won’t know what the keywords are and criminals often use innocent words as code words for something illegal.
You innocently enter the word and suddenly you are a suspect. I recall one group of criminals who were recorded on a phone tap referring to ‘raincoats’. A raincoat meant a silenced MAC10 machine gun (which was a convenient size to fit under a raincoat). Had you sent an email or searched for buying a raincoat you would have had the attention of the authorities.
One of my colleagues found himself in trouble because he had searched for and visited a website. He was after tickets to a rock band’s next tour. Unfortunately the rock band and an NSFW adult site had the same name.
Words with two meanings or slightly different spelling and a mistype could see you targeted because you searched for ‘how to make a raspberry bomb’ instead of bombe.
The same spelling can have radically different meanings in different languages. I don’t speak German, but gather the word gift means poison. ‘I want to by some Gift for the wife’ has a very different meaning.
How do you know that the English word you use doesn’t have another meaning in a language being monitored?
Presumably they will keyword search whatever you put in. You won’t know what the keywords are and criminals often use innocent words as code words for something illegal.
You innocently enter the word and suddenly you are a suspect. I recall one group of criminals who were recorded on a phone tap referring to ‘raincoats’. A raincoat meant a silenced MAC10 machine gun (which was a convenient size to fit under a raincoat). Had you sent an email or searched for buying a raincoat you would have had the attention of the authorities.
One of my colleagues found himself in trouble because he had searched for and visited a website. He was after tickets to a rock band’s next tour. Unfortunately the rock band and an NSFW adult site had the same name.
Words with two meanings or slightly different spelling and a mistype could see you targeted because you searched for ‘how to make a raspberry bomb’ instead of bombe.
The same spelling can have radically different meanings in different languages. I don’t speak German, but gather the word gift means poison. ‘I want to by some Gift for the wife’ has a very different meaning.
How do you know that the English word you use doesn’t have another meaning in a language being monitored?
One of the greatest checks & balances to preserve democracy is a free press. This act will totally remove the freedom of the press.
Imagine a situation where a government employee knows of some wrong doing by politicians. He goes to the press to blow the whistle. As soon as he does all the email correspondence is intercepted by the government. Not necessarily him contacting the journalist, but the journalist contacting his editor. The journalist does a web search for background information. This also alerts the government.
Perhaps the journalist asks the source to find out a little more. Before the whistle blower can do so, the government closes his access and covers everything up. Forewarned about the impending disclosures the government can get their version out first.
Soon nobody will dare blow the whistle on government wrongdoing. The media becomes dependent upon the government for its information and is reduced to being a government mouthpiece.
It seems that the government and the media, Murdoch in particular is struggling for control, with both sides releasing damaging material about the other.
This proposal would muzzle the media and prevent Murdoch embarrassing the government.
Imagine a situation where a government employee knows of some wrong doing by politicians. He goes to the press to blow the whistle. As soon as he does all the email correspondence is intercepted by the government. Not necessarily him contacting the journalist, but the journalist contacting his editor. The journalist does a web search for background information. This also alerts the government.
Perhaps the journalist asks the source to find out a little more. Before the whistle blower can do so, the government closes his access and covers everything up. Forewarned about the impending disclosures the government can get their version out first.
Soon nobody will dare blow the whistle on government wrongdoing. The media becomes dependent upon the government for its information and is reduced to being a government mouthpiece.
It seems that the government and the media, Murdoch in particular is struggling for control, with both sides releasing damaging material about the other.
This proposal would muzzle the media and prevent Murdoch embarrassing the government.
MX7 said:
wolves_wanderer said:
MX7 said:
thinfourth2 said:
All this secert squirrel s
t will end when we have an election and we kick this new labour scum out of office
How many times do you think you'll use that line before the next election?t will end when we have an election and we kick this new labour scum out of officeWe are completely free from the nanny state interfering in our lives
I now await the standard response blaming the liberals
mcdjl said:
I have several email accounts. Would it be very wrong of me to set up some auto-spamming thing where i send myself dozens of emails a day which i never read containing words like bomb, threat, etc just to keep them as busy as possible?
Too late and no need.You've already posted those words on one of the biggest, most accessible websites in the world.
They're coming for you now - can you hear them??? Run! Run away!!!
Uncle Fester said:
The intention to log every search term you enter into any search engine is worrying too.
Could one of the IT/ internet boffins here just clarify a couple of points?Will this, if pushed through, be actioned once approved or will it be retrospective? Do ISPs or the likes of GCHQ already have stored all the stuff related to in the articles, like emails, searches, web history etc. or is it that they intend to force them to/ will back up and keep such stuff from there on in?
Given the sheer volume of stuff, how practical is it that 'they' will ever be able to retrieve and link everything that could, for example, prevent a crime, as opposed to matching things to people already under surveillance? Especially given that it seems they already miss so much even posted/read/used by known 'bad guys' and have clearly not discovered all the associates of such baddies...
Also, will the use of software and sites like Torr and Anonymous kibosh such digging?
thinfourth2 said:
MX7 said:
wolves_wanderer said:
MX7 said:
thinfourth2 said:
All this secert squirrel st will end when we have an election and we kick this new labour scum out of office
How many times do you think you'll use that line before the next election?t will end when we have an election and we kick this new labour scum out of officethinfourth2 said:
MX7 said:
wolves_wanderer said:
MX7 said:
thinfourth2 said:
All this secert squirrel st will end when we have an election and we kick this new labour scum out of office
How many times do you think you'll use that line before the next election?t will end when we have an election and we kick this new labour scum out of officeWe are completely free from the nanny state interfering in our lives
I now await the standard response blaming the liberals
mcdjl said:
I have several email accounts. Would it be very wrong of me to set up some auto-spamming thing where i send myself dozens of emails a day which i never read containing words like bomb, threat, etc just to keep them as busy as possible?
Not wrong, but probably unnecessary.Even monitoring every post containing such words on this website would be a full time job for someone. Imagine doing that for the whole country. They'll just be swamped with useless information.
I wonder if their brilliant new systems will be up to reading messages sent in Arabic, or other non-Roman script?
Hijack, suicide, Allah, terror etc. Keep up the good work lads!
So if I opened a Hotmail account, or similar, and created and email but saved it as a draft, would they record it?
If I were a terrorist , all I need to do is give my fellow feckwitts the log in and password and they could log in a read the saved draft emails at will, without them ever have been "sent".
Are they now proposing to have every Draft email recorded as well?
odyssey2200 said:
So if I opened a Hotmail account, or similar, and created and email but saved it as a draft, would they record it?
If I were a terrorist , all I need to do is give my fellow feckwitts the log in and password and they could log in a read the saved draft emails at will, without them ever have been "sent".
Are they now proposing to have every Draft email recorded as well?
There were moves afoot to ban encrypted communications. Anyone know what happened on that one?
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2010-10-09/tec...
Of course, in the context of this current thread all the authorities have to do is keep a close eye on anyone who is seen to using encryption....
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2010-10-09/tec...
Of course, in the context of this current thread all the authorities have to do is keep a close eye on anyone who is seen to using encryption....
Here we are; 1 October 2007
"British law enforcement gained new powers on Monday to compel individuals and businesses to decrypt data wanted by authorities for investigations. The measure is in the third part of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA), legislation passed in 2000.
"The government contends law enforcement more frequently encounters encrypted data, which delays investigations. But as of Monday, those served with a "Section 49" notice have to either make decryption keys available or put the data in an intelligible form for authorities. Failure to comply could mean a prison sentence of up to two years for cases not involving national security or five years for those that do.
"A Section 49 request must first be approved by a judicial authority, chief of police, the customs and excise commissioner, or a person ranking higher than a brigadier or equivalent. Authorities can also mandate that the recipient of a Section 49 request not tell anyone except their lawyer that they have received it."
"British law enforcement gained new powers on Monday to compel individuals and businesses to decrypt data wanted by authorities for investigations. The measure is in the third part of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA), legislation passed in 2000.
"The government contends law enforcement more frequently encounters encrypted data, which delays investigations. But as of Monday, those served with a "Section 49" notice have to either make decryption keys available or put the data in an intelligible form for authorities. Failure to comply could mean a prison sentence of up to two years for cases not involving national security or five years for those that do.
"A Section 49 request must first be approved by a judicial authority, chief of police, the customs and excise commissioner, or a person ranking higher than a brigadier or equivalent. Authorities can also mandate that the recipient of a Section 49 request not tell anyone except their lawyer that they have received it."
- Note, as usual, the paranoid secrecy of government highlighted in bold!
Lost_BMW said:
Uncle Fester said:
The intention to log every search term you enter into any search engine is worrying too.
Given the sheer volume of stuff, how practical is it that 'they' will ever be able to retrieve and link everything that could, for example, prevent a crime, as opposed to matching things to people already under surveillance? Especially given that it seems they already miss so much even posted/read/used by known 'bad guys' and have clearly not discovered all the associates of such baddies...Whether that could actually prevent crime is debatable, but I've no doubt it would be used to make everyone's lives harder.
Lost_BMW said:
Also, will the use of software and sites like Torr and Anonymous kibosh such digging?
I would think so. So they'll be outlawed.You can sign the government e-petition here to oppose widespread snooping on your emails and web searches.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/32400
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/32400
Ozzie Osmond said:
You can sign the government e-petition here to oppose widespread snooping on your emails and web searches.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/32400
But in order to do that you have to give them your name and email address...http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/32400
Ozzie Osmond said:
Welcome to a Conservative Britain; the respector of individual privacy; the birthplace of parliamentary democracy; 900 years of trial by jury with justice both done and seen to be done
You do realise this thread, your thread, is being discussed behind closed doors as we speak? - Round the clock monitoring of all your communications? Oh yes.
- Secret trials in case the governmemt gets embarrassed? Oh yes.
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