Campaign for veto of Bill on creationism in Tennessee
Discussion
davepoth said:
Getragdogleg said:
Explain the dinosaurs if you support creationism.
And fossils.
That is not aimed at anyone on here, it is just frustrated rambling really. I despair of the human race sometimes, we are so good at being stupid.
God put them there while he was building the earth 6,000 years ago. Get with the program. And fossils.
That is not aimed at anyone on here, it is just frustrated rambling really. I despair of the human race sometimes, we are so good at being stupid.
Getragdogleg said:
Explain the dinosaurs if you support creationism.
And fossils.
That is not aimed at anyone on here, it is just frustrated rambling really. I despair of the human race sometimes, we are so good at being stupid.
We have several adults on my oil survey ship, educated adults, with degrees in fancy subjects such as navigation and electronics, who also believe the earth is 6000 years old. And fossils.
That is not aimed at anyone on here, it is just frustrated rambling really. I despair of the human race sometimes, we are so good at being stupid.
In the same conversation they will accept dinosaurs existed etc, but just give a strange grin when you ask how 50,000,000 year old dinosaurs can appear as fossils on a 6000 year old earth. They just give that strange grin of the righteous believer....
The one woman refuses to believe I don't give money to the church every week! She honestly tells me I am lying to her, gives me that knowing look you give to small children who are telling fibs. She tells me I am stealing from god himself....
Jimbeaux said:
You must seek their lairs on purpose because they are few. The poll said "God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so.", that does not mean the respondents believe the Earth is that young just that the present version of man is about that old. I personally do not agree with that but that is very far from those people believing that the planet is that age.
OK... Never mind. They are very, very few. Hardly any about, despite me meeting some, and the polls are just wording terribly, so God made man very recently, but the universe, and earth was a long time ago, in a galaxy quote near. So terribly worded, that they can be clearly ignored.TheHeretic said:
Jimbeaux said:
You must seek their lairs on purpose because they are few. The poll said "God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so.", that does not mean the respondents believe the Earth is that young just that the present version of man is about that old. I personally do not agree with that but that is very far from those people believing that the planet is that age.
OK... Never mind. They are very, very few. Hardly any about, despite me meeting some, and the polls are just wording terribly, so God made man very recently, but the universe, and earth was a long time ago, in a galaxy quote near. So terribly worded, that they can be clearly ignored.Jimbeaux said:
Whatever you say slick. I have lived here 46 years and have yet to meet one of these so-called numerous fools.
Well, in the same way I seek out their lairs, you simply do not broach the subject with people? Funny how I was there for only 5 or 6 years, and yet I met them in such a short time. You clearly aren't trying.Happy82 said:
I thought they were put there by the devil to turn people from the path of God,
That will be the Devil who is in charge of Hell, the place where all bad people go to be punished, so The Devil is sort of the good guy in terms of punishing wrong doers and stopping people doing wrong by being feared, a bit like the police ?Ohh this religion stuff is so confusing.
TheHeretic said:
Jimbeaux said:
Whatever you say slick. I have lived here 46 years and have yet to meet one of these so-called numerous fools.
Well, in the same way I seek out their lairs, you simply do not broach the subject with people? Funny how I was there for only 5 or 6 years, and yet I met them in such a short time. You clearly aren't trying.Getragdogleg said:
Happy82 said:
I thought they were put there by the devil to turn people from the path of God,
That will be the Devil who is in charge of Hell, the place where all bad people go to be punished, so The Devil is sort of the good guy in terms of punishing wrong doers and stopping people doing wrong by being feared, a bit like the police ?Ohh this religion stuff is so confusing.
King Herald said:
We have several adults on my oil survey ship, educated adults, with degrees in fancy subjects such as navigation and electronics, who also believe the earth is 6000 years old.
In the same conversation they will accept dinosaurs existed etc, but just give a strange grin when you ask how 50,000,000 year old dinosaurs can appear as fossils on a 6000 year old earth. They just give that strange grin of the righteous believer....
The one woman refuses to believe I don't give money to the church every week! She honestly tells me I am lying to her, gives me that knowing look you give to small children who are telling fibs. She tells me I am stealing from god himself....
Guess they are not allowed to carry guns on that there ship (although I do have an axe on hook on every floor of my ship In the same conversation they will accept dinosaurs existed etc, but just give a strange grin when you ask how 50,000,000 year old dinosaurs can appear as fossils on a 6000 year old earth. They just give that strange grin of the righteous believer....
The one woman refuses to believe I don't give money to the church every week! She honestly tells me I am lying to her, gives me that knowing look you give to small children who are telling fibs. She tells me I am stealing from god himself....
). Never have trusted asking those questions when there are guns And alcohol in the same place in the land of good ol' boys; KISS there or brains will ache!rohrl said:
How does this differ from those on Pistonheads who don't believe what the scientists tell them about climate change?
It doesn't, people believe what they wish to believe and exclude evidence that contradicts their preconceived ideas. It doesn't matter how much evidence accumulated that contradicts their position because they are so blinkered and invested in one answer that they'll dismiss the consensus. There are still people out there who believe the earth is flat and will do until they die, they won't even admit a shadow of doubt about it.I had a classmate once who dropped a N.Z.$2800 molecular biology class because genetics and aspects of his Christianity where "incompatible". I was astonished really, not about the incompatibility but that someone would waste that much money just to avoid an uncomfortable subject. If it had turned out to be a class with women discussing periods and childbirth I'd still have sat it out just to accumulate the papers, how uncomfortable can it be for them?
I believe religion and science are two different things and should be kept separate... however I do have a problem with the way evolution is taught as absolute indisputable fact while we are never taught about the problems associated with it.
Evolution is an argument with many holes, like a massively incomplete fossil record. What about the Cambrian explosion? Why did nearly all major phyla appear nearly out of nowhere and continue to the present day more or less "unchanged"?
These are things that need to be brought up and taught as a matter of healthy debate. Otherwise you are just training robots.
Evolution is an argument with many holes, like a massively incomplete fossil record. What about the Cambrian explosion? Why did nearly all major phyla appear nearly out of nowhere and continue to the present day more or less "unchanged"?
These are things that need to be brought up and taught as a matter of healthy debate. Otherwise you are just training robots.
jbi said:
I believe religion and science are two different things and should be kept separate... however I do have a problem with the way evolution is taught as absolute indisputable fact while we are never taught about the problems associated with it.
Yet nobody ever says that about physics or chemistry, it's always evolution.Surely Einstein's suggestion of a relativistic universe and Newton's immutable mechanics are persuasive and more fundamentally undermine the argument for the existence of any god. Evolution is only one small part of the way our understanding of the universe and everything in it is changing.
You can have a problem with the method or rigger with which scientific process is taught to student's but these issues should have no bearing on the teaching of scientific theory. Scientific process is a robust system for answering falsifiable questions with experimentation.
However most people are interested in the big questions rather than details which require a consensus to be formed. Of course there are always people who think the consensus is wrong but if we pointed out every alternative theory we wouldn't actually get very far teaching people and science would be rather dull. Simplification is necessary to teach science in a coherent way. The most important thing is understanding the process.
jbi said:
I believe religion and science are two different things and should be kept separate... however I do have a problem with the way evolution is taught as absolute indisputable fact while we are never taught about the problems associated with it.
Evolution is an argument with many holes, like a massively incomplete fossil record. What about the Cambrian explosion? Why did nearly all major phyla appear nearly out of nowhere and continue to the present day more or less "unchanged"?
These are things that need to be brought up and taught as a matter of healthy debate. Otherwise you are just training robots.
Care to run us through these problems? Please, go ahead. I have had a bad day, and require amusement.Evolution is an argument with many holes, like a massively incomplete fossil record. What about the Cambrian explosion? Why did nearly all major phyla appear nearly out of nowhere and continue to the present day more or less "unchanged"?
These are things that need to be brought up and taught as a matter of healthy debate. Otherwise you are just training robots.
speedy_thrills said:
I had a classmate once who dropped a N.Z.$2800 molecular biology class because genetics and aspects of his Christianity where "incompatible". I was astonished really, not about the incompatibility but that someone would waste that much money just to avoid an uncomfortable subject. If it had turned out to be a class with women discussing periods and childbirth I'd still have sat it out just to accumulate the papers, how uncomfortable can it be for them?
Dawkins talks about the Muslim trainee doctors in the UK - doctors, note! - who walk out of lectures when they hear things that contradict the accounts given in the Koran. It's almost literally unbelievable.
jbi said:
I believe religion and science are two different things and should be kept separate... however I do have a problem with the way evolution is taught as absolute indisputable fact while we are never taught about the problems associated with it.
Evolution is an argument with many holes, like a massively incomplete fossil record. What about the Cambrian explosion? Why did nearly all major phyla appear nearly out of nowhere and continue to the present day more or less "unchanged"?
These are things that need to be brought up and taught as a matter of healthy debate. Otherwise you are just training robots.
There are no 'holes' in evolution. It is observable. It is like gravity. It is an indusputable fact. Newton explained gravity - in Principia - and it was so accurate that Americans flew to the Moon using Newtonian physics. However, Einstein proved that Newton was wrong. Gravity is not an attractive force. The 'hole' in Newton's explanation was that he could not explain the force. During the period that Newtonian physics was believed very few people drifted off into space.Evolution is an argument with many holes, like a massively incomplete fossil record. What about the Cambrian explosion? Why did nearly all major phyla appear nearly out of nowhere and continue to the present day more or less "unchanged"?
These are things that need to be brought up and taught as a matter of healthy debate. Otherwise you are just training robots.
If some vicar suggested that invisible angels were holding onto our ankles, would you expect that to be taught in schools just because there was some doubt about the Newtonian explanation of gravity?
Darwin has, to a certain degree, been proved wrong in his theory of evolution. But evolution still exists. He merely explained what he saw. As he had no idea about DNA his explanation was going to be flawed in detail.
There is considerale debate amongst evolutionary scientists regarding what many would see as details but they regard as important. Is evolution something that could work steadily or does it required some near extinction event to trigger it into full flow? That is what should be discussed in school, not whether evolution or gravity exists.
Gravity exists because the term was invented to describe something that was observed. An apple falls. The cause is gravity. Evolution exists in exactly the same way. Read Almost Like a Whale. For people like me, and I have to say probably you, who have little grounding in biology, it goes through the proof of evolution step by step and then proposes theories (some of which have since been shown to be highly improbable). You come out the end better informed. And quite excited.
The thing with evolution is that it works. It is going on now, even with humans. Look up sickel-cell anaemia, evolution in all its terrible glory. People die because of evolution. It exists, it is there, it is everywhere. Just like gravity. Just like ignorance.
Jimbeaux said:
I find it amusing that folks way over on Treasure Island get worked up over a proposed legislative bill in one of 50 states. 
I think people get worked up because they (quite rightly) believe this to be the 'thin end of the wedge' and the worlds only (very well armed) superpower will end up ruled and occupied by complete mentalists who dismiss basic science as 'sorcery and witchcraft'Looks like some of your own intelligent, well spoken, celebrity residents are also completely staggered at the thought of mental religious types with their fingers on the nuclear trigger running the country:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy0Dldv7AOI&fea...
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