Long term solution to our economic woes
Discussion
DSM2 said:
fesuvious said:
Science - seeks to prove things
There is no proof whatsoever Jesus existed, yet his supposed existence is used as a fact by a man speaking in support of science.
I'm confused
But there is some evidence that he might have existed, he just wasn't all that he was cracked up to be, son of god and all that........There is no proof whatsoever Jesus existed, yet his supposed existence is used as a fact by a man speaking in support of science.
I'm confused
Derek Chevalier said:
Steffan said:
The solution is not, in itself, difficult
Are you sure? What percentage of the population are moaning about the current "austerity" when it hasn't even started in earnest? The political consequences could be a challenge. Which is why I believe neither party will face this until forced to do so either, post EU fall over, or if that still does not reduce the excesses of madness in UK politics, then the IMF will return to control the purse strings as the UK returns to insolvency. In between eight and y=twelve years at the current angle of dive.
The country is being run by children who are having a great time and refusing to face any difficult problems. They need a strict nanny to bring them back into line. The electoral system cannot produce any adult decisions in the UK. The IMF will oblige in due course.
Ridiculous it undoubtedly is, as a way to govern a country, but that, I am afraid is the way of modern politics. Politicians court celebrity and popularity and steadfastly refuse to make difficult decisions, or to face reality. Hence the steady slide over the last thirty years towards insolvency, once again, having escaped its clutches in the 1970's. Neither party will face any of the difficult decisions. Too busy playing with their expensive toys and games courtesy of the taxpayers.
That process gets us around the inadequacy of the politicians. At a price: there will be real trouble over the cuts in government expenditure needed when they arrive. But if you put off all difficult decisions, there must be a day of reckoning, as most adults realise.
It would be far better if the politicians grew up and acted like adults. But the, as the saying goes, If wishes came true......
head Government HE supported.Education. Start early, teach children to be self reliant and good citizens.
Pour money into schools and colleges for a generation, then pass the baton onto them.
If it works, we'll find solutions to enough of our problems to help the country (and the World).
If it fails, well, we tried!
Pour money into schools and colleges for a generation, then pass the baton onto them.
If it works, we'll find solutions to enough of our problems to help the country (and the World).
If it fails, well, we tried!
The Don of Croy said:
Education. Start early, teach children to be self reliant and good citizens.
Pour money into schools and colleges for a generation, then pass the baton onto them.
If it works, we'll find solutions to enough of our problems to help the country (and the World).
If it fails, well, we tried!
So the fact that labour spending on education has gone from 37 billion in 1997 to 88 billion when they left, yet the level of education ranks us 19 with 18 European countries ahead of us. At least they can text speak and say init... better than being able to speak several languages like most other countries.Pour money into schools and colleges for a generation, then pass the baton onto them.
If it works, we'll find solutions to enough of our problems to help the country (and the World).
If it fails, well, we tried!
Well we tried...
Steffan said:
That is the essence of this problem. We have lost the art of electing politicians who actually have any real sense of responsibility and desire to actually correct the successive overspending by politicians buying votes through the Benefits Society. Celebrity status and achieving huge personal wealth drives modern politics I am afraid. Hence the fiddles and overspending.
The problem is totally caused by the continuous and totally unaffordable public borrowing requirement that constant government overspending has caused within the UK. The taxpayer cannot afford the dreams and callous vote rigging attempted by modern politicians through benefits largesse.
There has to be a new approach in politics. No political grandstanding, largesse, no massive meaningless summits, no, utterly pointless photo opportunities and no, celebrity culture in politics. A big dose of "we cannot afford it" is needed throughout government, local government and public administration.
The solution is not, in itself, difficult. The real problem, is how we achieve that solution, with the idiots in charge hell bent on celebrity and glory at our expense. I have absolutely no idea. But that is the answer in a nutshell.
holy sht. agree completely. who are you and what have you done with the real steffan?The problem is totally caused by the continuous and totally unaffordable public borrowing requirement that constant government overspending has caused within the UK. The taxpayer cannot afford the dreams and callous vote rigging attempted by modern politicians through benefits largesse.
There has to be a new approach in politics. No political grandstanding, largesse, no massive meaningless summits, no, utterly pointless photo opportunities and no, celebrity culture in politics. A big dose of "we cannot afford it" is needed throughout government, local government and public administration.
The solution is not, in itself, difficult. The real problem, is how we achieve that solution, with the idiots in charge hell bent on celebrity and glory at our expense. I have absolutely no idea. But that is the answer in a nutshell.
Steffan said:
....I believe neither party will face this until forced to do so...
govy borrowing costs up -> more qe -> sterling lower, import costs up. repeat until inflation or currency crisis or both.none of our politicians have the backbone, intelligence or electoral support to do anything about it.
it will be forced on us by the bond and fx markets eventually.
in answer to the thread title; a couple of ideas, education, specifically i'd introduce a compulsory gcse in finance to cover government funding, markets and personal finance, at least some people would have a clue what the fvck they were voting for then. secondly i'd introduce a minimum age of 45 for mp's so we can see how these chimps did in real jobs, i'd also third the number of them and triple the pay to attract a few less idiots.
Edited by fbrs on Monday 9th July 15:06
Steffan said:
Derek Chevalier said:
Steffan said:
The solution is not, in itself, difficult
Are you sure? What percentage of the population are moaning about the current "austerity" when it hasn't even started in earnest? The political consequences could be a challenge. Which is why I believe neither party will face this until forced to do so either, post EU fall over, or if that still does not reduce the excesses of madness in UK politics, then the IMF will return to control the purse strings as the UK returns to insolvency. In between eight and y=twelve years at the current angle of dive.
The country is being run by children who are having a great time and refusing to face any difficult problems. They need a strict nanny to bring them back into line. The electoral system cannot produce any adult decisions in the UK. The IMF will oblige in due course.
Ridiculous it undoubtedly is, as a way to govern a country, but that, I am afraid is the way of modern politics. Politicians court celebrity and popularity and steadfastly refuse to make difficult decisions, or to face reality. Hence the steady slide over the last thirty years towards insolvency, once again, having escaped its clutches in the 1970's. Neither party will face any of the difficult decisions. Too busy playing with their expensive toys and games courtesy of the taxpayers.
That process gets us around the inadequacy of the politicians. At a price: there will be real trouble over the cuts in government expenditure needed when they arrive. But if you put off all difficult decisions, there must be a day of reckoning, as most adults realise.
It would be far better if the politicians grew up and acted like adults. But the, as the saying goes, If wishes came true......
I actually think the current Government aren't doing too bad a job given what went on before they got to power.
fbrs said:
Steffan said:
That is the essence of this problem. We have lost the art of electing politicians who actually have any real sense of responsibility and desire to actually correct the successive overspending by politicians buying votes through the Benefits Society. Celebrity status and achieving huge personal wealth drives modern politics I am afraid. Hence the fiddles and overspending.
The problem is totally caused by the continuous and totally unaffordable public borrowing requirement that constant government overspending has caused within the UK. The taxpayer cannot afford the dreams and callous vote rigging attempted by modern politicians through benefits largesse.
There has to be a new approach in politics. No political grandstanding, largesse, no massive meaningless summits, no, utterly pointless photo opportunities and no, celebrity culture in politics. A big dose of "we cannot afford it" is needed throughout government, local government and public administration.
The solution is not, in itself, difficult. The real problem, is how we achieve that solution, with the idiots in charge hell bent on celebrity and glory at our expense. I have absolutely no idea. But that is the answer in a nutshell.
holy sht. agree completely. who are you and what have you done with the real steffan?The problem is totally caused by the continuous and totally unaffordable public borrowing requirement that constant government overspending has caused within the UK. The taxpayer cannot afford the dreams and callous vote rigging attempted by modern politicians through benefits largesse.
There has to be a new approach in politics. No political grandstanding, largesse, no massive meaningless summits, no, utterly pointless photo opportunities and no, celebrity culture in politics. A big dose of "we cannot afford it" is needed throughout government, local government and public administration.
The solution is not, in itself, difficult. The real problem, is how we achieve that solution, with the idiots in charge hell bent on celebrity and glory at our expense. I have absolutely no idea. But that is the answer in a nutshell.
Derek Chevalier said:
Steffan said:
Derek Chevalier said:
Steffan said:
The solution is not, in itself, difficult
Are you sure? What percentage of the population are moaning about the current "austerity" when it hasn't even started in earnest? The political consequences could be a challenge. Which is why I believe neither party will face this until forced to do so either, post EU fall over, or if that still does not reduce the excesses of madness in UK politics, then the IMF will return to control the purse strings as the UK returns to insolvency. In between eight and y=twelve years at the current angle of dive.
The country is being run by children who are having a great time and refusing to face any difficult problems. They need a strict nanny to bring them back into line. The electoral system cannot produce any adult decisions in the UK. The IMF will oblige in due course.
Ridiculous it undoubtedly is, as a way to govern a country, but that, I am afraid is the way of modern politics. Politicians court celebrity and popularity and steadfastly refuse to make difficult decisions, or to face reality. Hence the steady slide over the last thirty years towards insolvency, once again, having escaped its clutches in the 1970's. Neither party will face any of the difficult decisions. Too busy playing with their expensive toys and games courtesy of the taxpayers.
That process gets us around the inadequacy of the politicians. At a price: there will be real trouble over the cuts in government expenditure needed when they arrive. But if you put off all difficult decisions, there must be a day of reckoning, as most adults realise.
It would be far better if the politicians grew up and acted like adults. But the, as the saying goes, If wishes came true......
I actually think the current Government aren't doing too bad a job given what went on before they got to power.
The coalition are not as bad, I grant you, but a Chancellor who is so scared of being found out, that he send out a young female underling to be destroyed on TV by J Paxman at 45 minutes notice, and a Prime Minister who leaves his very young daughter, on her own in the pub, after postprandial drinkypoos, and is renowned for his U turn specialities in government, are not a lot use, in charge of the UK.
They may not be as bad. They are very little better: no serious decisions will be made, since they are not up to the job. The IMF will be the route chosen, by default.
Crafty_ said:
Don't worry, good old Ed has the solution, get the banks to sell high street branches to newcomers: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/ba...
Of course. More competition.Such a good idea. I mean there are only what, 4 major Clearing Banks, a few ex-Building Societies (who now "think" they are proper Banks, several lesser sized retail Banks including new players like Virgin Money, Metro etc. Of course many of them are considerably less well financed than the "Big 4" & relying on more Inter-Bank lending than others perhaps - not unlike Northern Rock. Oh hang on haven't we heard that name before ?
(back to square one.............)
What every sensible person needs to do is vote with their feet.
The current govt are bent on giving the bankers even more money, because no doubt of the financial support they get from them, for the implied offers of well paid jobs when they retire and because of a misguided belief that they are driving the economy. Everything you say is right, Steffan, but the factor which you don't mention, is that politicians sell their power for present or future favours including highly paid sinecures in Europe, NATO or the UN, as well a merchant bank consultancies or directorships, particularly in the US. That is how things happen that we all know are against the interests of the UK but happen anyway. The people making the decisions have got their own corrupt reasons for doing so.
Move your bank accounts to either new or existing purely retail banks . Starve the dinosaurs to death.
If we get a sounder financial system that will be a good start.
The current govt are bent on giving the bankers even more money, because no doubt of the financial support they get from them, for the implied offers of well paid jobs when they retire and because of a misguided belief that they are driving the economy. Everything you say is right, Steffan, but the factor which you don't mention, is that politicians sell their power for present or future favours including highly paid sinecures in Europe, NATO or the UN, as well a merchant bank consultancies or directorships, particularly in the US. That is how things happen that we all know are against the interests of the UK but happen anyway. The people making the decisions have got their own corrupt reasons for doing so.
Move your bank accounts to either new or existing purely retail banks . Starve the dinosaurs to death.
If we get a sounder financial system that will be a good start.
cardigankid said:
What every sensible person needs to do is vote with their feet.
The current govt are bent on giving the bankers even more money, because no doubt of the financial support they get from them, for the implied offers of well paid jobs when they retire and because of a misguided belief that they are driving the economy. Everything you say is right, Steffan, but the factor which you don't mention, is that politicians sell their power for present or future favours including highly paid sinecures in Europe, NATO or the UN, as well a merchant bank consultancies or directorships, particularly in the US. That is how things happen that we all know are against the interests of the UK but happen anyway. The people making the decisions have got their own corrupt reasons for doing so.
Move your bank accounts to either new or existing purely retail banks . Starve the dinosaurs to death.
If we get a sounder financial system that will be a good start.
very well thought out idea... not!!The current govt are bent on giving the bankers even more money, because no doubt of the financial support they get from them, for the implied offers of well paid jobs when they retire and because of a misguided belief that they are driving the economy. Everything you say is right, Steffan, but the factor which you don't mention, is that politicians sell their power for present or future favours including highly paid sinecures in Europe, NATO or the UN, as well a merchant bank consultancies or directorships, particularly in the US. That is how things happen that we all know are against the interests of the UK but happen anyway. The people making the decisions have got their own corrupt reasons for doing so.
Move your bank accounts to either new or existing purely retail banks . Starve the dinosaurs to death.
If we get a sounder financial system that will be a good start.
the retail branch of many of the big banks only exists cause the banks are forced to keep them... let them dissolve retail, concentrate on Corporate/Investment and the banks will be finally happy to move out of retail.
Why does joe public assume that retail is where the money is made? Can you tell me this? Retail is the poorest performer out of the lot. Most of the high paid jobs are not in Retail banks, they are just relatively normal amounts of pay. Investment banking is were most of the higher than average wages are paid (not all are very high, but no point trying to explain that as you won't believe me).
Anyways, on to Investment banking 101.
They don't get their money from you depositing it, they get it from investment funds, high net individuals and companies wishing to use the investment services of the bank.
They make their money via doing the following:
Advice
Financing
Trading
Research
Each of which they take a commission/fee for doing so, they will also trade with their own money.
So people like you coming along and telling people to vote with your feet and withdraw your money and starve them, show just how stupid and misinformed you really are, if you are going to state something like that, at least read up on the subject first and not jump in with ignorance and state pure drivel about how to bring the banks to their knees by withdrawing savings.
What would they be able to trade or finance without a massive retail deposit book?
Agreed it isn't very profitable in and of itself, but as I understand it corporate finance and trading are both done largely with the deposits brought in by the consumer bank.
The advisory side of investment banking is almost an entirely stand alone business.
Agreed it isn't very profitable in and of itself, but as I understand it corporate finance and trading are both done largely with the deposits brought in by the consumer bank.
The advisory side of investment banking is almost an entirely stand alone business.
London424 said:
Don't companies have nice expensive R&D departments coming up with the science type stuff?
R&D is more technology than science.lots of technology is reliant on science that was discovered several decades in the past. i.e. basic science, which is required to advance science (and therefore technology) gives staggering returns, but only over the very long term (decades). Therefore companies don't fund it very much (anymore). Bell Labs, for example, where so many advances in computing and semiconductors were made, has been closed for ages now. AT&T don't do any basic science...
to really advance our society we need the government to put its weight behind basic science.
we actually have a very good system in the UK already - the research councils are more-or-less fit for purpose and they fund excellent research. Sadly they can't fund enough of it. The money is being concentrated more and more to fewer institutions and (even worse imo) to fewer scientists (this will reduce the diversity of work done in the UK).
the UK has a very efficient system and we already lead the world (literally) if you measure the number of citations (an approximation for the 'impact' of scientific work) per unit of money spent.
the government are doing some slightly dubious things like prioritising graphene and spending 50 million on a research centre for that (which I welcome). But we need scientists to decide where the money goes, not politicians.
we just need more money allocated to the research councils to dole out to scientists - the solution is as simple as that.
it's a hard sell - give us lots of money, let us play. But science funding as a government is like playing the lottery - it doesn't cost much, you might not win much, or very often, but when you do win, you win big and it changes your world. (quantum mechanics, the internet, lasers, synthetic drugs, etc. etc.)
the UK has a very efficient system and we already lead the world (literally) if you measure the number of citations (an approximation for the 'impact' of scientific work) per unit of money spent.
the government are doing some slightly dubious things like prioritising graphene and spending 50 million on a research centre for that (which I welcome). But we need scientists to decide where the money goes, not politicians.
we just need more money allocated to the research councils to dole out to scientists - the solution is as simple as that.
it's a hard sell - give us lots of money, let us play. But science funding as a government is like playing the lottery - it doesn't cost much, you might not win much, or very often, but when you do win, you win big and it changes your world. (quantum mechanics, the internet, lasers, synthetic drugs, etc. etc.)
Edited by Use Psychology on Tuesday 10th July 18:07
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