But There Are No Jobs
Discussion
Caulkhead said:
Pothole said:
Caulkhead said:
Pothole said:
Caulkhead said:
How many jobs there are depends on where you are to some degree. I ran a recruitment business for for a few years and I have to say a lot of the people who I spoke to who were unemployed not because they couldn't find a job, they couldn't find the one they wanted.
When I left a job in the mid-nineties and the new job fell through I swapped my £500 suit for overalls and delivered plant equipment and drove a bailiff round for months for £7.00 an hour until I found the opportunity I wanted. The key to avoiding unemployment IMHO is flexibility a lack of ego.
Nobody will give me that kind of a job these days. I know, I've applied.When I left a job in the mid-nineties and the new job fell through I swapped my £500 suit for overalls and delivered plant equipment and drove a bailiff round for months for £7.00 an hour until I found the opportunity I wanted. The key to avoiding unemployment IMHO is flexibility a lack of ego.
I don't know what's different between the nineties and now - I had a guy knock on the door a couple of weeks ago and I've just been able to give him three months work helping our cable installers on a big job. If he's any good I'll try to find him something permanent.
Pothole said:
Cool story, bro. Anything even a tiny bit relevant to add?
The relevance is way back then you could usually walk out of one job into another, certainly in a week or so, not like these days when there are 200 plus applicants for a job on the tills at Asda/Tesco etc.Minimum wage jobs are all well and good if you are a teenager living at home with your parents, but not much use if you have three kids and need to find £1000 pm for a mortgage like many have to.
singlecoil said:
A few years ago I, through no fault of my own I like to think, was in a no job situation. In a way I was lucky because I knew that, due to my age, I wasn't going to get a job anyway, even if there weren't so many people applying for every job.
So it was simple, stay at home or create my own job. Fortunately I was able to build on knowledge acquired through my woodworking hobby, found an inexpensive workshop on a nearby farm, and started making kitchens. It beats applying for jobs because prospective customers don't ask my age or my employment history, as long as I offer them a nice kitchen at a decent price I'm in business.
I know starting a business isn't going to work for everyone, but I would like to see people at least thinking and talking about it.
Good post, Singlecoil. I also find myself wondering what it is about self-employment that puts people off. You get better money, you decide your own working arrangements, there's no problem with convincing someone else to take you on, and best of all I think is that the value proposition to your customers is extremely simple and clear cut. You offer a service, they decide whether to buy your service or not. You get to exercise all your talents such as interpersonal skills, communications, negotiating, and so on.So it was simple, stay at home or create my own job. Fortunately I was able to build on knowledge acquired through my woodworking hobby, found an inexpensive workshop on a nearby farm, and started making kitchens. It beats applying for jobs because prospective customers don't ask my age or my employment history, as long as I offer them a nice kitchen at a decent price I'm in business.
I know starting a business isn't going to work for everyone, but I would like to see people at least thinking and talking about it.
singlecoil said:
A few years ago I, through no fault of my own I like to think, was in a no job situation. In a way I was lucky because I knew that, due to my age, I wasn't going to get a job anyway, even if there weren't so many people applying for every job.
So it was simple, stay at home or create my own job. Fortunately I was able to build on knowledge acquired through my woodworking hobby, found an inexpensive workshop on a nearby farm, and started making kitchens. It beats applying for jobs because prospective customers don't ask my age or my employment history, as long as I offer them a nice kitchen at a decent price I'm in business.
I know starting a business isn't going to work for everyone, but I would like to see people at least thinking and talking about it.
I dream of doing this, jacking in my IT job and making a living cabinets/wardrobes etc. It must be hugely satisfying making this kind of stuff which people ohh and aahh over and appreciate your skills and hardwork. So it was simple, stay at home or create my own job. Fortunately I was able to build on knowledge acquired through my woodworking hobby, found an inexpensive workshop on a nearby farm, and started making kitchens. It beats applying for jobs because prospective customers don't ask my age or my employment history, as long as I offer them a nice kitchen at a decent price I'm in business.
I know starting a business isn't going to work for everyone, but I would like to see people at least thinking and talking about it.
I guess many people unemployed don't have the startup capital and are worried about what happens if it fails. Having a regular pay cheque at the end of the month is probably a huge comfort to alot of people.
honest_delboy said:
I dream of doing this, jacking in my IT job and making a living cabinets/wardrobes etc. It must be hugely satisfying making this kind of stuff which people ohh and aahh over and appreciate your skills and hardwork.
I guess many people unemployed don't have the startup capital and are worried about what happens if it fails. Having a regular pay cheque at the end of the month is probably a huge comfort to alot of people.
You're in the lucky position of being able to use the earnings from your current job to invest in tools and training/experience to build up your skills so that if you were to lose employment you'd have an alternative to fall back on.I guess many people unemployed don't have the startup capital and are worried about what happens if it fails. Having a regular pay cheque at the end of the month is probably a huge comfort to alot of people.
You are right in that some people think they can't make a move without startup capital, but I would suggest they are looking at things the wrong way round. Many successful entrepreneurs start with nothing. And in this day and age, with job security being a myth, I would argue that being dependent on someone else's competence for your regular paycheque is way riskier than relying one one's own skills and resources.
Gaspode said:
singlecoil said:
A few years ago I, through no fault of my own I like to think, was in a no job situation. In a way I was lucky because I knew that, due to my age, I wasn't going to get a job anyway, even if there weren't so many people applying for every job.
So it was simple, stay at home or create my own job. Fortunately I was able to build on knowledge acquired through my woodworking hobby, found an inexpensive workshop on a nearby farm, and started making kitchens. It beats applying for jobs because prospective customers don't ask my age or my employment history, as long as I offer them a nice kitchen at a decent price I'm in business.
I know starting a business isn't going to work for everyone, but I would like to see people at least thinking and talking about it.
Good post, Singlecoil. I also find myself wondering what it is about self-employment that puts people off. You get better money, you decide your own working arrangements, there's no problem with convincing someone else to take you on, and best of all I think is that the value proposition to your customers is extremely simple and clear cut. You offer a service, they decide whether to buy your service or not. You get to exercise all your talents such as interpersonal skills, communications, negotiating, and so on.So it was simple, stay at home or create my own job. Fortunately I was able to build on knowledge acquired through my woodworking hobby, found an inexpensive workshop on a nearby farm, and started making kitchens. It beats applying for jobs because prospective customers don't ask my age or my employment history, as long as I offer them a nice kitchen at a decent price I'm in business.
I know starting a business isn't going to work for everyone, but I would like to see people at least thinking and talking about it.
Colonial said:
A friend of mine is up to job application no.254
She volunteers time for charities as well so she isn't just sitting around the house.
The jobs she is applying for are "beneath" her. 26, uni grad, 6 years working in a post office through uni.
She has had one interview in that time. For a junior admin role. She was told she was over qualified for it.
It may sound a bit harsh, but she needs to 'tailor' her CV for the job she applies for. If that means making yourself look less qualified then so be it - just a means to an end.She volunteers time for charities as well so she isn't just sitting around the house.
The jobs she is applying for are "beneath" her. 26, uni grad, 6 years working in a post office through uni.
She has had one interview in that time. For a junior admin role. She was told she was over qualified for it.
fido said:
It may sound a bit harsh, but she needs to 'tailor' her CV for the job she applies for. If that means making yourself look less qualified then so be it - just a means to an end.
Definitely this. We get sent loads of CVs from agencies. If any of them show any sign of not having been tailored to suit the application, they go straight in the bin. If someone can't be bothered to spend a bit of time thinking about what they can offer a prospective employer, and communicating that effectively, then why would that prospective employer expend any effort interviewing them?Gaspode said:
Definitely this. We get sent loads of CVs from agencies. If any of them show any sign of not having been tailored to suit the application, they go straight in the bin. If someone can't be bothered to spend a bit of time thinking about what they can offer a prospective employer, and communicating that effectively, then why would that prospective employer expend any effort interviewing them?
When you sign up with an agency you upload a CV and can apply in 'one click' fashion, so it just forwards the same details to everybody. I think there's a fine line with the whole 'tailor the CV to suit the job' because you can go too far with that to the point of merely telling the employer what they want to hear, which doesn't help them.martin84 said:
I think there's a fine line with the whole 'tailor the CV to suit the job' because you can go too far with that to the point of merely telling the employer what they want to hear, which doesn't help them.
I didn't say lie on your CV. If you're going for an Executive job then they might want to read about your postgraduate thesis and all the subjects you studied at Mediocre University (formerly Polytechic). If you're going for Cashier positon at Yum Burgers then "Golf Studies, Mediocre University, 2008-2011" will suffice. It's not a natural skill to pick up as a graduate, because you spent the last 10 years trying to gain qualifications, only to hide them away from jealous potential bosses or HR robots - but it is a life skill that will keep you in work. Just to add, contractors do it all the time - emphasise the skills required for a particular project.Edited by fido on Thursday 26th July 16:31
Pothole said:
Apart from the fact that I have a full time job and care for my 83 year old mother? What's stopping you from being less agressive?
Interesting that you find a straightforward question aggressive. You are in a full-time job, which as the statistics demonstrate, is by far the best place to get another job, should you wish to do so. I know from personal experience that caring for elderly relatives can be time consuming, and can eat into study time, so it may take longer than you would like to improve your employability, but it can be done. In my experience what holds most people back is their lack of self-belief and determination rather than any objective lack of skills or experience. I see many people applying for jobs, as I am often asked to assess their technical abilities, and the usual view of the interviewing panel is that skills can be taught, experience can be gained, but a positive attitude and a willingness to engage with the job is something that the candidate has to bring with them. Sadly, very few of them seem to do so.
Gaspode said:
Pothole said:
Apart from the fact that I have a full time job and care for my 83 year old mother? What's stopping you from being less agressive?
Interesting that you find a straightforward question aggressive. You are in a full-time job, which as the statistics demonstrate, is by far the best place to get another job, should you wish to do so. I know from personal experience that caring for elderly relatives can be time consuming, and can eat into study time, so it may take longer than you would like to improve your employability, but it can be done. In my experience what holds most people back is their lack of self-belief and determination rather than any objective lack of skills or experience. I see many people applying for jobs, as I am often asked to assess their technical abilities, and the usual view of the interviewing panel is that skills can be taught, experience can be gained, but a positive attitude and a willingness to engage with the job is something that the candidate has to bring with them. Sadly, very few of them seem to do so.
I have thought long and hard about setting up a business. I have yet to come up with an idea which
a. I reckon I could make money with and/or
b. which would play to my strengths.
fido said:
I didn't say lie on your CV. If you're going for an Executive job then they might want to read about your postgraduate thesis and all the subjects you studied at Mediocre University (formerly Polytechic). If you're going for Cashier positon at Yum Burgers then "Golf Studies, Mediocre University, 2008-2011" will suffice. It's not a natural skill to pick up as a graduate, because you spent the last 10 years trying to gain qualifications, only to hide them away from jealous potential bosses or HR robots - but it is a life skill that will keep you in work. Just to add, contractors do it all the time - emphasise the skills required for a particular project.
But at the same time you've still got to try to stand out. If they receive 100 applications all 'tailored' exactly to the job, essentially all saying the same thing then how do you bump yourself up the list? Never really been a problem for me because I hardly went to school and I doubt any HR manager will be too jealous of GCSE grade E in English Edited by fido on Thursday 26th July 16:31
Back on pg 1 the OP made a point about her stepdad (a plasterer) probably ending up as a pizza delivery boy. The disappearance of the UK construction industry is going to trigger a lot of skills being lost in this way. Hard to get those skills back when (a) there are bugger all apprenticeships out there and (b) the people who have the skills aren't around to pass them on to apprentices anyway.
Gaspode said:
You are right in that some people think they can't make a move without startup capital, but I would suggest they are looking at things the wrong way round. Many successful entrepreneurs start with nothing. And in this day and age, with job security being a myth, I would argue that being dependent on someone else's competence for your regular paycheque is way riskier than relying one one's own skills and resources.
I agree, especially with the point about startup capital. Obviously, depending on the nature of the business being started, some is going to be needed but all too often people overestimate the amount necessary. In my own case, I was able to get three or four thousand together and I made do, then when the first job came in I used the profits to buy more equipment as needed. Other lines of work might need more, some might need less, but it's always worth coming at it from the 'what's the minimum I can get away with?' rather than the 'lease a new van etc etc' approach that one sometimes sees people adopting.I wouldn't recommend anyone who already has a job to try it, unless they reckon they are onto a sure thing, but somebody who has a bit of redundancy money should at least consider it. Anybody who has reason to believe that they will lose their job in the near future should do too.
Blackpuddin said:
Back on pg 1 the OP made a point about her stepdad (a plasterer) probably ending up as a pizza delivery boy. The disappearance of the UK construction industry is going to trigger a lot of skills being lost in this way. Hard to get those skills back when (a) there are bugger all apprenticeships out there and (b) the people who have the skills aren't around to pass them on to apprentices anyway.
The construction industry may be in the doldrums, but there is still demand out there. My mate Steve used to work for a general building company, until he got made redundant as the company couldn't sustain its overheads and the boss wound the company up. Since then he's been self employed, working on word of mouth recommendations, and he's never been busier. I've been waiting for him to do some work for me for months. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff