The Wasted Vote
Discussion
McWigglebum3rd said:
Mon Ami Mate said:
That is where the Party had to be positioned to win centrist votes. The view was that you win the election and then move gradually to the right. They couldn't have foreseen a coalition.
So let me get this rightI should vote for the tory party as what they are currently bangin on about to win my vote is not what they belive in
Or in other words i should vote for them as they are lying to me
Errrrmmmm
No thanks
REALIST123 said:
This, with the reservation that a few years may be all the Labour Party needs to put us irretrievably down the toilet.
They also need the collusion of a timid Tory party who dare not attack them on the things they do worst because the Tories themselves wouldn't do anything different. It has worked a charm for them over the last 20 years and looks set to continue doing so into the 2020s.This really in extraordinary. UKIP supporters are like a bunch of spoilt kids. Give me exactly what I want or I'll stamp my foot, take my bat away and go and play by myself in the corner. Yes, you have the ability to screw up the game, but you don't have the ability to force everybody else to do what you want them to.
Actually, it's pathetically reminscent of the Peoples' Front of Judea. We need to unite against the common enemy. Who's that over in the corner Reg? Oh that's Nigel Farage. Splitter.
Actually, it's pathetically reminscent of the Peoples' Front of Judea. We need to unite against the common enemy. Who's that over in the corner Reg? Oh that's Nigel Farage. Splitter.
Mon Ami Mate said:
This really in extraordinary. UKIP supporters are like a bunch of spoilt kids. Give me exactly what I want or I'll stamp my foot, take my bat away and go and play by myself in the corner. Yes, you have the ability to screw up the game, but you don't have the ability to force everybody else to do what you want them to.
Actually, it's pathetically reminscent of the Peoples' Front of Judea. We need to unite against the common enemy. Who's that over in the corner Reg? Oh that's Nigel Farage. Splitter.
So i should vote for what i don't want to get what i wantActually, it's pathetically reminscent of the Peoples' Front of Judea. We need to unite against the common enemy. Who's that over in the corner Reg? Oh that's Nigel Farage. Splitter.
Okay i'm convinced
Socialist workers party for me from here on in
Mon Ami Mate said:
This really in extraordinary. UKIP supporters are like a bunch of spoilt kids. Give me exactly what I want or I'll stamp my foot, take my bat away and go and play by myself in the corner.
Giving me ANYTHING that I want might have made a difference. As it stands I will not vote for blue labour to keep out red labour, the "Conservatives" are still obviously big state, nannying, tax and waste social democrats and have absolutely nothing for me. Furthermore if you seriously believe that that lying weasel has any intention, even if by some miracle he did get a second term, of permitting a referendum on the EU then you are even more delusional than I thought.Einion Yrth said:
Giving me ANYTHING that I want might have made a difference. As it stands I will not vote for blue labour to keep out red labour, the "Conservatives" are still obviously big state, nannying, tax and waste social democrats and have absolutely nothing for me. Furthermore if you seriously believe that that lying weasel has any intention, even if by some miracle he did get a second term, of permitting a referendum on the EU then you are even more delusional than I thought.
Complete nonsense.powerstroke said:
Mon Ami Mate said:
McWigglebum3rd said:
total and utter 100% pure unrefined bulls
tI heard that f
king muppet before the electionGreenest government ever
The only way i can convince the tory party i don't want the labour party policies is to vote for UKIP.
So, where do you want to start from in 2015? A Conservative government that you can help to move further right or a Labour government that will take the country ever further left?
As the Republicans in the US have come to realise just lately, there aren't enough old angry white guys around any more.
You want a tory party, then that party having learned from 13 years worth of mistakes is going to be pretty centrist for the foreseeable future. You want a right wing angry white old guys party, vote for UKIP. See which one the electorate is likely to choose in sufficient numbers come the next election
Mon Ami Mate said:
Einion Yrth said:
Giving me ANYTHING that I want might have made a difference. As it stands I will not vote for blue labour to keep out red labour, the "Conservatives" are still obviously big state, nannying, tax and waste social democrats and have absolutely nothing for me. Furthermore if you seriously believe that that lying weasel has any intention, even if by some miracle he did get a second term, of permitting a referendum on the EU then you are even more delusional than I thought.
Complete nonsense.rs1952 said:
You want a tory party, then that party having learned from 13 years worth of mistakes is going to be pretty centrist for the foreseeable future. You want a right wing angry white old guys party, vote for UKIP. See which one the electorate is likely to choose in sufficient numbers come the next election
Almost certainly neither, so I'll vote with my conscience.Einion Yrth said:
My tax bill is higher, what it is being spent on often fulfills my definition of waste, I give you the "minimum unit price" for alcohol, one of CMD's favourite ideas I believe, as an example of the nanny state and then we have the state of energy generation, the renewables obligation, feed in tariffs etc. as an example of big state stupidity and policies not good for the common man. There is no advantage to me that I can see of a Cameroon government over the other idiots. Furthermore telling me that my concerns are "complete nonsense" is unlikely to reassure me and bring me back to the fold. So far your only reason to vote for the feckers seems to be that they are lying to the country, not of course something we didn't know, but scarcely a good thing surely.
We don't have a Conservative government.rs1952 said:
We are forgetting our recent history. The Tory party shifted right after the 1997 election defeat with Haig, IDS and Howard and lost two more elections.
As the Republicans in the US have come to realise just lately, there aren't enough old angry white guys around any more.
You want a tory party, then that party having learned from 13 years worth of mistakes is going to be pretty centrist for the foreseeable future. You want a right wing angry white old guys party, vote for UKIP. See which one the electorate is likely to choose in sufficient numbers come the next election
Alternatively, if the 'kippers want some proper good-old-fashioned robust right-wing Tory action, how about we just proscribe UKIP, round up all the activists and stick them in an internment camp on West Falkland? Nothing on the camp TV but BBC greenist documentaries, and the only internet access will be to Mumsnet. Sorted.As the Republicans in the US have come to realise just lately, there aren't enough old angry white guys around any more.
You want a tory party, then that party having learned from 13 years worth of mistakes is going to be pretty centrist for the foreseeable future. You want a right wing angry white old guys party, vote for UKIP. See which one the electorate is likely to choose in sufficient numbers come the next election
Mon Ami Mate said:
Einion Yrth said:
My tax bill is higher, what it is being spent on often fulfills my definition of waste, I give you the "minimum unit price" for alcohol, one of CMD's favourite ideas I believe, as an example of the nanny state and then we have the state of energy generation, the renewables obligation, feed in tariffs etc. as an example of big state stupidity and policies not good for the common man. There is no advantage to me that I can see of a Cameroon government over the other idiots. Furthermore telling me that my concerns are "complete nonsense" is unlikely to reassure me and bring me back to the fold. So far your only reason to vote for the feckers seems to be that they are lying to the country, not of course something we didn't know, but scarcely a good thing surely.
We don't have a Conservative government.greenest government ever
All well before may 2010
McWigglebum3rd said:
Hug a hoodie
greenest government ever
All well before may 2010
Hug a hoodie was taken completely out of context. A significant number of centrists believe in the green nonsense. To attract their votes and actually get voted in it was necessary to appeal to them. Get their votes, get into power and then prove it is total nonsense. In the previous two elections the Conservative Party had focussed on core vote and heavily defeated. If UKIP supporters are serious about political change the only way they will achieve what they want is by campaigning for it and winning the argument from within the Conservative Party. Many Conservatives, including me, have very similar instincts and attitudes to many UKIP members.greenest government ever
All well before may 2010
Einion Yrth said:
And will be very heavily defeated.
What is your alternative? I don't identify with many things that come out of the upper echelons of the Conservative Party at the moment, but I say so within the party. We debate what we think and, trust me, many Conservatives feel the same. The idea is to work to make the party represent the wishes of its supporters, not to go off in a huff the moment it doesn't. It's always a compromise, no political party will ever dovetail 100 per cent with what I consider to be ideal.
Mon Ami Mate said:
Hug a hoodie was taken completely out of context. A significant number of centrists believe in the green nonsense. To attract their votes and actually get voted in it was necessary to appeal to them.
So when are they going to start disproving it then?Conservative Party's own website said:
Action to date
• We have set up 'UK Green Investments' to start investing now ahead of the establishment of the Green Investment Bank.
• We have published ambitious targets to reduce carbon emissions, setting an example to our competitors in Europe. However, we will not put British industry at risk, so we will revisit the targets we have set if other countries fail to match our ambition.
• At the Durban climate conference in December 2011, we were instrumental in delivering a ground breaking global agreement on climate change. More than 120 countries formed a 'coalition of high ambition' in support of a roadmap to a legally-binding deal, to be in place by 2015.
Planned actions
• By 2015, we will have invested £3 billion of public money in the Green Investment Bank, unleashing a further £15 billion of private investment.
• We will work towards a global deal on climate change to be agreed no later than 2015.
• The Carbon Price Floor will take effect from April 2013, incentivising low-carbon energy.
They're trumpeting their achievements and planning a further an orgy of government spending and regulation domestically and pushing the MMGW agenda globally. The above alone is reason enough for me not to vote for them.• We have set up 'UK Green Investments' to start investing now ahead of the establishment of the Green Investment Bank.
• We have published ambitious targets to reduce carbon emissions, setting an example to our competitors in Europe. However, we will not put British industry at risk, so we will revisit the targets we have set if other countries fail to match our ambition.
• At the Durban climate conference in December 2011, we were instrumental in delivering a ground breaking global agreement on climate change. More than 120 countries formed a 'coalition of high ambition' in support of a roadmap to a legally-binding deal, to be in place by 2015.
Planned actions
• By 2015, we will have invested £3 billion of public money in the Green Investment Bank, unleashing a further £15 billion of private investment.
• We will work towards a global deal on climate change to be agreed no later than 2015.
• The Carbon Price Floor will take effect from April 2013, incentivising low-carbon energy.
If you think this is just a bit of window dressing to catch some floating voters I believe you are seriously in denial.
And while I am obviously not a believer in MMGW I don't really think saying any thing that sounds good to get elected is a good way to approach elections in a democracy. Firstly because it's fundamentally dishonest. More pragmatically because it leaves you either having to do a U turn once elected or being bound to carry out the stupid plans you don't believe in because you need to get elected again next time, and all your core voters are stupid.
But that is the whole problem with the modern Conservative party - they simply won't make the case for conservatism.
eharding said:
Einion Yrth said:
wolves_wanderer said:
Mon Ami Mate said:
In the previous two elections the Conservative Party had focussed on core vote and heavily defeated..
and now they are taking their core vote for granted...It seems its the Tory tactical voters that are keeping out UKIP not Ukip keeping out the conservatives out to me.
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