No tax paid by Rolls Royce in 2012
Discussion
z4me said:
toppstuff said:
More populist, political b
ks from MP's and the media, only really telling half the story.
We are sewing the seeds of our own doom.
So your happy for RR to make £1.4bn in profits, pay £218m in tax abroad, nothing in UK, and don't want to know the full story?ks from MP's and the media, only really telling half the story.We are sewing the seeds of our own doom.
king miracle!!!!And no, I dont give a monkeys what the public balance sheet says. If its true it should be trumpeted as a complete success story! Have you got any idea of the kickings we used to get???
z4me said:
toppstuff said:
More populist, political bks from MP's and the media, only really telling half the story.
We are sewing the seeds of our own doom.
So your happy for RR to make £1.4bn in profits, pay £218m in tax abroad, nothing in UK, and don't want to know the full story?ks from MP's and the media, only really telling half the story.We are sewing the seeds of our own doom.
In fact, screw it, i'd be happy for them to make £400bn in profits and pay NO corporation tax legally or not- the amount of people they employ far outweighs the small amount of corporation tax they don't pay.
z4me said:
So your happy for RR to make £1.4bn in profits, pay £218m in tax abroad, nothing in UK, and don't want to know the full story?
We know the full story, tax system includes breaks and incentives to encourage businesses to invest and grow. RR use those incentives to invest in British workers and develop a large export market bringing money in to the country. The only bit that's wrong is the headline which should be applauding this.WTF? We have been stcanning manufacturing for 50 years. So now companies make all their stuff abroad and only the admin dept lives here and the management and their leggy secretaries are a burden. So guess what we get no tax from them. This is proof that our crappy little country with its various political parties funded by sainsburies and the like are more and more irrelavent on the world platform. We have a few raw materials left to flog and when thats gone we are finished. Buggered up by spineless politicoes and st for brains public sector whitehall wallas. There is an urgent public sector sacking requirement and it neesds seeing to, never mind bloody RR.
tcanning manufacturing for 50 years. So now companies make all their stuff abroad and only the admin dept lives here and the management and their leggy secretaries are a burden. So guess what we get no tax from them. This is proof that our crappy little country with its various political parties funded by sainsburies and the like are more and more irrelavent on the world platform. We have a few raw materials left to flog and when thats gone we are finished. Buggered up by spineless politicoes and st for brains public sector whitehall wallas. There is an urgent public sector sacking requirement and it neesds seeing to, never mind bloody RR.Let's pretend R.R. never existed.
Add to that other major British companies.
Would UK be a better place.
Open to debate, but that discussion could well be in German.
Companies pay billions in Salaries and millions in payroll taxes and a fair bit in insurance premiums, which all contribute to the country.
Occaisionally a company has to make statements in it's annual shareholder meetings that are "unpleasant" like "shareholders should not expect this coming years growth to match that of last year"
To maintain continued shareholder support the company needs to be honest.
If one percent of this honesty could be transfered in some way to the politicians we would all be better off. The political way is to always blame somebody else, the opposing party, developers, banking, investment banking, take your pick.
It's never their fault, instead of doing what will benefit the majority, they choose the path that will maintain the status quo. ie them in power.
I assume most are aware Corp Tax is double taxation. Make it too onerous you'll get nothing and may well lose the jobs and pay roll taxes that go with it.
Add to that other major British companies.
Would UK be a better place.
Open to debate, but that discussion could well be in German.
Companies pay billions in Salaries and millions in payroll taxes and a fair bit in insurance premiums, which all contribute to the country.
Occaisionally a company has to make statements in it's annual shareholder meetings that are "unpleasant" like "shareholders should not expect this coming years growth to match that of last year"
To maintain continued shareholder support the company needs to be honest.
If one percent of this honesty could be transfered in some way to the politicians we would all be better off. The political way is to always blame somebody else, the opposing party, developers, banking, investment banking, take your pick.
It's never their fault, instead of doing what will benefit the majority, they choose the path that will maintain the status quo. ie them in power.
I assume most are aware Corp Tax is double taxation. Make it too onerous you'll get nothing and may well lose the jobs and pay roll taxes that go with it.
I have no problem with RR paying no CT on £1.4bn pre-tax profit, or Starbucks, or whoever, but if that's the case then why should I pay £90k or so on the measly pre-tax profit I'll be declaring for 2012? I pay business rates and employers NI, I employ people, why shouldn't my company be exempt as well?
Corporation tax shouldn't only be paid by small and medium sized businesses, we have enough crap to deal with. Either abolish it entirely, reduce it substantially, or make sure all companies pay it - and I'd prefer option 1.
Corporation tax shouldn't only be paid by small and medium sized businesses, we have enough crap to deal with. Either abolish it entirely, reduce it substantially, or make sure all companies pay it - and I'd prefer option 1.
RYH64E said:
I have no problem with RR paying no CT on £1.4bn pre-tax profit, or Starbucks, or whoever, but if that's the case then why should I pay £90k or so on the measly pre-tax profit I'll be declaring for 2012? I pay business rates and employers NI, I employ people, why shouldn't my company be exempt as well?
Corporation tax shouldn't only be paid by small and medium sized businesses, we have enough crap to deal with. Either abolish it entirely, reduce it substantially, or make sure all companies pay it - and I'd prefer option 1.
Nothing stopping you from structuring your business like they do is there? I suppose it's a pain in the ass. Keeps my missus in work though (tax consultant) Corporation tax shouldn't only be paid by small and medium sized businesses, we have enough crap to deal with. Either abolish it entirely, reduce it substantially, or make sure all companies pay it - and I'd prefer option 1.
RYH64E said:
I have no problem with RR paying no CT on £1.4bn pre-tax profit, or Starbucks, or whoever, but if that's the case then why should I pay £90k or so on the measly pre-tax profit I'll be declaring for 2012? I pay business rates and employers NI, I employ people, why shouldn't my company be exempt as well?
Corporation tax shouldn't only be paid by small and medium sized businesses, we have enough crap to deal with. Either abolish it entirely, reduce it substantially, or make sure all companies pay it - and I'd prefer option 1.
Here you go.Corporation tax shouldn't only be paid by small and medium sized businesses, we have enough crap to deal with. Either abolish it entirely, reduce it substantially, or make sure all companies pay it - and I'd prefer option 1.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ct/forms-rates/claims/randd...
London424 said:
Are you suggesting that RR managed to offset the CT liabilty on £1.4bn pre-tax profits purely through R&D? I'd bet that the use of overseas subsidiaries was more significant.Anyway, I tried to use this allowance last year but couldn't comply with the criteria quoted below. Most small businesses will struggle to meet these criteria.
HMRC said:
Your company or organisation can only claim for R&D Relief if an R&D project seeks to achieve an advance in overall knowledge or capability in a field of science or technology through the resolution of scientific or technological uncertainty - and not simply an advance in its own state of knowledge or capability.
The other thing that didn't help my case was Capital Allowances being cut from £100k to £25k in a year when I re-invested £200k of my hard earned cash in plant and machinery, which seemed a bit harsh. Putting it back up to £250k this year doesn't really help as I spent the money last year.vodkalolly said:
WTF? We have been stcanning manufacturing for 50 years. So now companies make all their stuff abroad and only the admin dept lives here and the management and their leggy secretaries are a burden. So guess what we get no tax from them. This is proof that our crappy little country with its various political parties funded by sainsburies and the like are more and more irrelavent on the world platform. We have a few raw materials left to flog and when thats gone we are finished. Buggered up by spineless politicoes and st for brains public sector whitehall wallas. There is an urgent public sector sacking requirement and it neesds seeing to, never mind bloody RR.
Nobody will admit it but basically, you are right. This was a good country with great people and the politicians ftcanning manufacturing for 50 years. So now companies make all their stuff abroad and only the admin dept lives here and the management and their leggy secretaries are a burden. So guess what we get no tax from them. This is proof that our crappy little country with its various political parties funded by sainsburies and the like are more and more irrelavent on the world platform. We have a few raw materials left to flog and when thats gone we are finished. Buggered up by spineless politicoes and st for brains public sector whitehall wallas. There is an urgent public sector sacking requirement and it neesds seeing to, never mind bloody RR.ked it for what they could get and sold it down the river. All we have now is the wreckage. Rolls Royce is now a German company. So much for all the guys who died in 39-45. Why on earth should they pay taxes in the UK?Take it from someone who remembers the 50's. At one time people believed in Britain. Now they don't. They don't trust the politicians one inch. And they are right. No son of mine is going to die in a trench for any damn 'principle' never mind Queen and Country.
Edited by cardigankid on Wednesday 6th March 21:44
RYH64E said:
London424 said:
Are you suggesting that RR managed to offset the CT liabilty on £1.4bn pre-tax profits purely through R&D? I'd bet that the use of overseas subsidiaries was more significant.Anyway, I tried to use this allowance last year but couldn't comply with the criteria quoted below. Most small businesses will struggle to meet these criteria.
HMRC said:
Your company or organisation can only claim for R&D Relief if an R&D project seeks to achieve an advance in overall knowledge or capability in a field of science or technology through the resolution of scientific or technological uncertainty - and not simply an advance in its own state of knowledge or capability.
The other thing that didn't help my case was Capital Allowances being cut from £100k to £25k in a year when I re-invested £200k of my hard earned cash in plant and machinery, which seemed a bit harsh. Putting it back up to £250k this year doesn't really help as I spent the money last year.el stovey said:
traxx said:
Dont British Airways buy GE?
BA have (or have ordered) RR engines on the B787
B777-200
B767
B757
B747
A380
BA is pretty much totally an RR operator on all aircraft with an RR option, BA tend to get a pretty good deal on anything they buy as they are something of a bellwether for other airlines.
As far as the UK corporation tax remember that RR report underlying revenue. The vast majority of RRs products are sold in dollars their costs are incured in pounds, dollars and euros. They hedge about three years worth of currency and don't attempt to make a proft on this market so in the long term the average value of the currency trading is zero. Depending on what the exchange rates do the value of hedged currency over one year can dwarf the actual profit and loss made by the company in that year, I suspect this may have been contributory to them paying no corporation this year.
Actually one thing I have never worked out is what happens to RRs profits, they most certainly aren't paid as dividends. I presume they're used to purchase shares hence the vast rise in share value.
We need more R-Rs, paying lots of people good money to do good jobs, bringing in money from abroad and lots of lovely tax via employees' income and nat ins taxes (workers, engineers, whatever, on a payscale level where they can't do the old tax avoiding!). More please and shame on the MP for not putting sense before politics.
Agreed I don’t blame Rolls-Royce or Starbucks or any other company (regardless of the name they operate under) for exploiting the tax system with a series of offsets and deferrals. Any company would do the same. It just serves to highlight the serious shortcoming of a tax system that favours taxing profits and capital gains over other forms of taxation (perhaps taxing revenues or similar).
cardigankid said:
vodkalolly said:
WTF? We have been stcanning manufacturing for 50 years. So now companies make all their stuff abroad and only the admin dept lives here and the management and their leggy secretaries are a burden. So guess what we get no tax from them. This is proof that our crappy little country with its various political parties funded by sainsburies and the like are more and more irrelavent on the world platform. We have a few raw materials left to flog and when thats gone we are finished. Buggered up by spineless politicoes and st for brains public sector whitehall wallas. There is an urgent public sector sacking requirement and it neesds seeing to, never mind bloody RR.
Rolls Royce is now a German company. tcanning manufacturing for 50 years. So now companies make all their stuff abroad and only the admin dept lives here and the management and their leggy secretaries are a burden. So guess what we get no tax from them. This is proof that our crappy little country with its various political parties funded by sainsburies and the like are more and more irrelavent on the world platform. We have a few raw materials left to flog and when thats gone we are finished. Buggered up by spineless politicoes and st for brains public sector whitehall wallas. There is an urgent public sector sacking requirement and it neesds seeing to, never mind bloody RR.
who wants to tell him?Oh good, someone has.
Pop into their factory, which is in England by the way, and ask to buy a car. See what happens
What I find funny, is that the same people (or media) moaning that Starbucks should pay tax where their sales are, also seem to be moaning that Rolls Royce should be paying tax where they are based, not where their sales are. Er, right.
I'm sure we all agree that RR is a great company, and we're glad that we have a company that's successful at a global level. Jolly good that it was bailed out by the government then, isn't it?
I'm sure we all agree that RR is a great company, and we're glad that we have a company that's successful at a global level. Jolly good that it was bailed out by the government then, isn't it?
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