Are drugs REALLY a problem?
Discussion
Purity14 said:
Liverpool.
To put it into perspective I park my Car and motorbike in the same (underground) carpark as as a Ferrari and 2 Porsche.
Outside not 100 yards away there are people sleeping rough.
Its a real spectrum of people, and lifestyles, and whilst there is crime, there isn't much.
Im not a scouser, but I have lived here for work for the last 6 years, and I do like it.
My Brother Lives in Liverpool as well and they certainly are more in your face than most places I've been. I Live and work in Glasgow and the drugs scene has devastated lives and communities all over this place up here and the deadbeats tend to avoid most main areas unlike in Liverpool. I was asked out right 3/4 times in an hour if I wanted/had any gear, you just don't see that up here. To put it into perspective I park my Car and motorbike in the same (underground) carpark as as a Ferrari and 2 Porsche.
Outside not 100 yards away there are people sleeping rough.
Its a real spectrum of people, and lifestyles, and whilst there is crime, there isn't much.
Im not a scouser, but I have lived here for work for the last 6 years, and I do like it.
I'm also of the opinion that drugs should be legalised and controlled by the state to rid the world of low life Dealers and scum while controlling the amount addicts and recreational users can have, simultaneously wiping out the national debt through taxation.
Purity14 said:
Depends where you live, I live in a city centre.
I get asked every day if i want to buy some drugs, just from walking from my car to my apartment.
They approach you and ask you if you need anything, if you say no, then they say "okay" if you ask "like what?" or "what do you mean?" They will tell you what they have.
I also get asked if i can spare some change twice or three times in that period.
I also see someone sleeping rough every morning on the way to work.
You must live in a pretty-sI get asked every day if i want to buy some drugs, just from walking from my car to my apartment.
They approach you and ask you if you need anything, if you say no, then they say "okay" if you ask "like what?" or "what do you mean?" They will tell you what they have.
I also get asked if i can spare some change twice or three times in that period.
I also see someone sleeping rough every morning on the way to work.
tty-city centre then....... either that or you liver round the corner from Junkiesville..... Never in all my life in Edinburgh have I just been approached in the street by random junkies trying to sell their wares. Being offered E's and coke, etc. etc. in clubs is par for the course....Snowboy said:
If drugs were legalized, even if they were taxed, they would be cheap.
Pot would cost the same as brocolli.
Chemical drugs would cost the same as aspirin or ibuprofen.
Crime related to affording drugs would drop.
Criminal income would drop.
Gang income and power would drop.
Terrorist income would drop.
Drug Curious youngsters could get drugs from trusted sources, shops and chemists, rather than having to associate with criminals.
Drugs could be bought and taken in safe places, like pubs and clubs provide safe places for alcohol consumption.
Drug addiction would be treated as a medical problem not a legal one.
Over the years I've changed my mind many times about legalising drugs.
I'm now in the legalise them camp.
Let people choose.
And stop wasting money trying to stop people taking them that could be better spent elsewhere.
We look back at alcohol prohibition in the US and laugh at the stupid idea; yet we're doing the same with drugs.
WOW!!!!! Snowy, for once I simply cannot find fault with your line of thinking..... Sir, I salute your non-wooly thinking on this emotive topic.Pot would cost the same as brocolli.
Chemical drugs would cost the same as aspirin or ibuprofen.
Crime related to affording drugs would drop.
Criminal income would drop.
Gang income and power would drop.
Terrorist income would drop.
Drug Curious youngsters could get drugs from trusted sources, shops and chemists, rather than having to associate with criminals.
Drugs could be bought and taken in safe places, like pubs and clubs provide safe places for alcohol consumption.
Drug addiction would be treated as a medical problem not a legal one.
Over the years I've changed my mind many times about legalising drugs.
I'm now in the legalise them camp.
Let people choose.
And stop wasting money trying to stop people taking them that could be better spent elsewhere.
We look back at alcohol prohibition in the US and laugh at the stupid idea; yet we're doing the same with drugs.
P.S. I corrected a wee typo of yours......
Mojooo said:
My main reason for thinking drugs should stay illegal is because I think more people would take them if they were legal - maybe not now but in 10 years when a new generation is born where drugs are legal and normal. Yes many can take it and get on fine but there are lots that end up too far gone and become a drain on their family and society.
aside from that I can see a lot of benefits.
unfortnatley i think what proves my point are 'legal highs' - many people - especially young, are taking them because they think the fact that they are not banned like class A drugs means they must somehow be safer. the effects of legal highs are much worse than what may be reported. people falling serious ill every week is not uncommon and that was just in my local area!
You obviously haven't been acquainted with statistics and figures from The Netherlands, Portugal or Switzerland who have taken the pragmatic step of decriminalising or legalising drugs. aside from that I can see a lot of benefits.
unfortnatley i think what proves my point are 'legal highs' - many people - especially young, are taking them because they think the fact that they are not banned like class A drugs means they must somehow be safer. the effects of legal highs are much worse than what may be reported. people falling serious ill every week is not uncommon and that was just in my local area!
In each country, they have seen a marked improvement in reduction of addicts of hard drugs and reduction in uptake of soft drugs. Take away the allure of illegality and you take away the allure of "being naughty" - QED you lessen the impact of intoxicating substances.
Purity14 said:
xjsdriver said:
Purity14 said:
Depends where you live, I live in a city centre.
I get asked every day if i want to buy some drugs, just from walking from my car to my apartment.
They approach you and ask you if you need anything, if you say no, then they say "okay" if you ask "like what?" or "what do you mean?" They will tell you what they have.
I also get asked if i can spare some change twice or three times in that period.
I also see someone sleeping rough every morning on the way to work.
You must live in a pretty-sI get asked every day if i want to buy some drugs, just from walking from my car to my apartment.
They approach you and ask you if you need anything, if you say no, then they say "okay" if you ask "like what?" or "what do you mean?" They will tell you what they have.
I also get asked if i can spare some change twice or three times in that period.
I also see someone sleeping rough every morning on the way to work.
tty-city centre then....... either that or you liver round the corner from Junkiesville..... Never in all my life in Edinburgh have I just been approached in the street by random junkies trying to sell their wares. Being offered E's and coke, etc. etc. in clubs is par for the course....t people and they might get what they want. Its pretty obvious from this thread that people who haven't tried anything see any illegal drugs at the same level as heroin/crack. A very dangerous view.
Anything in between could be legalised and controlled and have a far less destructive effect than alcohol. Cut out the dodgy legal highs too.
Anything in between could be legalised and controlled and have a far less destructive effect than alcohol. Cut out the dodgy legal highs too.
NerveAgent said:
Its pretty obvious from this thread that people who haven't tried anything see any illegal drugs at the same level as heroin/crack. A very dangerous view.
Anything in between could be legalised and controlled and have a far less destructive effect than alcohol. Cut out the dodgy legal highs too.
Re: Legal Highs.....entirely part of the problem is not knowing how safe, or unsafe they really are without recourse to testing. Anything in between could be legalised and controlled and have a far less destructive effect than alcohol. Cut out the dodgy legal highs too.
IMO, a large part of the problem with "drugs" is the media driven grouping of them all into one category ("drugs").
Many popular drugs (ecstacy, cannabis) aren't addictive and are less harmful than alcohol and certainly cigarrettes (or even horse riding!), but are lumped in with heroin and crack cocaine, which are in a different league entirely in terms of their long term impact on the user.
For me it's a no brainer that ecstacy and cannabis should be legalised, they're so widely available and used at the moment, I don't forsee a big increase in the amount of people using them and the current (minimal) ill-effects of their use. It is literally all upside - users get more reliable doses, with increased information and support, the government gets taxes and dealers lose a large part of their clientele.
The argument for legalising heroin and crack is much more complex. On one hand they create a dependency that has a significant impact on the users' life, but on the other, pure versions of heroin at least are significantly less harmful than street versions, indeed it's possible for users to lead an almost normal life if they have a regular supply of the clean drug. On balance, I'd say that they should be legalised, but prescription only with dedicated centres for monitoring and supporting users. The costs would be big, obviously, but then talking to a police officer who worked on a robbery team, a large percentage of domestic burglaries are perpetrated by junkies, so it may well be a price worth paying.
In my view drugs like Crystal Meth (which thankfully doesn't seem to be that big over here... yet) are so detrimental to the user that they should remain illegal and dealers should be heavily punished with serious prison time. Hopefully with the above drugs being legalised, there would be little demand for it in any case.
The question then arises about what happens to the dealers and their supply chain that exists now? If you take their source of income away, I doubt very much that they'll roll up to the job centre the next morning in a suit and tie, so there could well be unanticipated side effects of legalising various drugs.
Many popular drugs (ecstacy, cannabis) aren't addictive and are less harmful than alcohol and certainly cigarrettes (or even horse riding!), but are lumped in with heroin and crack cocaine, which are in a different league entirely in terms of their long term impact on the user.
For me it's a no brainer that ecstacy and cannabis should be legalised, they're so widely available and used at the moment, I don't forsee a big increase in the amount of people using them and the current (minimal) ill-effects of their use. It is literally all upside - users get more reliable doses, with increased information and support, the government gets taxes and dealers lose a large part of their clientele.
The argument for legalising heroin and crack is much more complex. On one hand they create a dependency that has a significant impact on the users' life, but on the other, pure versions of heroin at least are significantly less harmful than street versions, indeed it's possible for users to lead an almost normal life if they have a regular supply of the clean drug. On balance, I'd say that they should be legalised, but prescription only with dedicated centres for monitoring and supporting users. The costs would be big, obviously, but then talking to a police officer who worked on a robbery team, a large percentage of domestic burglaries are perpetrated by junkies, so it may well be a price worth paying.
In my view drugs like Crystal Meth (which thankfully doesn't seem to be that big over here... yet) are so detrimental to the user that they should remain illegal and dealers should be heavily punished with serious prison time. Hopefully with the above drugs being legalised, there would be little demand for it in any case.
The question then arises about what happens to the dealers and their supply chain that exists now? If you take their source of income away, I doubt very much that they'll roll up to the job centre the next morning in a suit and tie, so there could well be unanticipated side effects of legalising various drugs.
Far and away the drug I see the most as a paramedic is Heroin. Vile, destructive drug that destroys lives and once it has a grip is difficult to get off. Generally users are unpleasant to deal with and not very grateful when you save their lives. They never believe us either when we tell them "You were 2 minutes from dying"
trashbat said:
Thankyou4calling said:
I'm not keen on Donkey rides or roller coasters .
You don't need to bother with that. You could just curl up and take crack.http://www.wave965.com/news/local/10-million-lotte...
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/12/when-...
Second highest crack use, highest alcohol incapacity rate, twice the normal mental health admission, highest suicide rate, highest family breakdown, 1 in 67 children in care. So yeah - kind of is a problem.
Illegal or not crack, heroine, cocaine, amphetamine, meth amphetamine, ketamine and all other manner of drugs are not suitable for human consumption (Including alcohol).
I've done my fair share, I don't want to tell anyone what to do with their mind or body, but I think it's a responsible state legislator that enforces an ideal of abstinence. I understand all the arguments for and against and have never been convinced that major changes in the way we deal with drug abuse will do anything to stop people taking them - which at the end of the day must be the desired aim.
Ruskie said:
Far and away the drug I see the most as a paramedic is Heroin. Vile, destructive drug that destroys lives and once it has a grip is difficult to get off. Generally users are unpleasant to deal with and not very grateful when you save their lives. They never believe us either when we tell them "You were 2 minutes from dying"
What percentage of the heroin users you see have mental health issues, would you say?It seems to me that cause and effect are often confused when the media glosses over the subject of drug addiction, especially with heroin.
On another note, surely you're aware of morphine, demitrol, etc. which are essentially legalised (for medical use) heroin, yet have very few of the side effects of street heroin?
Edited by youngsyr on Friday 27th June 11:32
The question to my mind is, of the addicts in Blackpool, how many ventured willingly into serious drug use of their own accord, how many did the same but largely because it was illegal, and how many were pressured in by people looking to profit from crime? Personally I think it's heavily weighted towards the latter two.
(I'm from the Fylde too, but fortunately for me, somewhere slightly better off)
(I'm from the Fylde too, but fortunately for me, somewhere slightly better off)
youngsyr said:
What percentage of the heroin users you see have mental problems, would you say?
Addiction is a mental problem, it's an illness and you can as easily get addicted to prescription opiates as you can to street heroine, easier infact, the effects and side effects are largely the same.FredClogs said:
youngsyr said:
What percentage of the heroin users you see have mental problems, would you say?
Addiction is a mental problem, it's an illness and you can as easily get addicted to prescription opiates as you can to street heroine, easier infact, the effects and side effects are largely the same.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff