Grassroouts Out Campaign Dates...

[v8250]

alfie2244 said:

FredClogs said:

This conversation ideally demonstrates the problem with the out campaigned and a lot of recent support that UKIP have picked up, there is no common base political or economic ideology behind the "grass roots" out campaign. On one hand you've got right leaning economic liberals who believe that the EU is stifling and controlling market forces and on the other hand you've got traditional labour leftist people who believe that the UK should throw up protective sanctions on trade and imports and create some kind of self sustaining walled city (which the whole world will banging on the door of to by our - I don't know what). Both side displaying a suitable level of flag waving and general jingoism to appeal to those unclear enough to have a good think.

I shudder to think what would happen to domestic UK politics were we ever to go for an OUT vote.

Yes but it is the fact that it is the EU doing the stifling and controlling that is the problem...the UK is more than capable of doing this itself should it wish to do so...can you not see that?

It may help if you had a look at this for a few hours.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/summary/glossary.html

Edited by alfie2244 on Wednesday 17th February 17:57

Thank you, Alfie, for high lighting this. It's about time some people properly educate themselves and really understand the st we're in thanks to the EU.

All, there is no real answer as to what a post Brexit UK will look like, but we are not a third rate back street nation. Our industry leaders will not allow their sectors to be simply pissed away because we're no longer a suckling pig to Brussels. And, our complaining doubt mongering politicians can openly hang themselves if they resist. In fact, I see a new wave of bright highly focused politicians on the horizon post Brexit...those of the type who understand the economics of industry and who are not within the political clique to exclusively line their own pockets. Five to ten years post Brexit and all the doubters will be wondering what the risk was in the first place, much like the Millennium Bug...a much ado about nothing. Not only will we economically survive, many see a proper resurgence in UK growth once the dust has settled. The only financial limitation we'll struggle with is UK debt, an unacceptable debt that has been exasperated due to crippling EU fiscal policy and piss poor UK Govt.

[4x4Tyke]

[v8250]

4x4Tyke said:

Looks like a perfectly edible banana, to me.

"Now stop right there. No eating of curved bananas. The EU-overlords dictate curvature of less than 10degs"

On a serious note, bananas are a highly nutritious food source...I wonder what is the annual tonnage of banana food waste as a direct result of EU intervention? Food for thought or starving millions...?

[powerstroke]

FredClogs said:

Hoofy said:

Come on then, what do I get for the £55m a day that Britain pays?

Well the £55million figure is a bit of a myth as I'm sure you're aware but what we get is "guaranteed" access to the worlds largest market place and a say in how that market place is administered and organised.

Yes we really need all the german , french, Italian cars ,plant and HGVs
we would be in a mess if a guy who sells chinese photocopers couldn't lease an Audi...
Im sure germany would refuse to sell us things
Um seriously kid have you seen the trade defacit we have with the rest of the EU ??????

[FredClogs]

powerstroke said:

FredClogs said:

Hoofy said:

Come on then, what do I get for the £55m a day that Britain pays?

Well the £55million figure is a bit of a myth as I'm sure you're aware but what we get is "guaranteed" access to the worlds largest market place and a say in how that market place is administered and organised.

Yes we really need all the german , french, Italian cars ,plant and HGVs
we would be in a mess if a guy who sells chinese photocopers couldn't lease an Audi...
Im sure germany would refuse to sell us things
Um seriously kid have you seen the trade defacit we have with the rest of the EU ??????

It's not a question of whether or not they would sell us things, more a question of whether or not they would buy our things.

[Jinx]

FredClogs said:

It's not a question of whether or not they would sell us things, more a question of whether or not they would buy our things.

Who cares - EU is a mature market in rapid decline. India and China is where the growth is.

[FredClogs]

Jinx said:

FredClogs said:

It's not a question of whether or not they would sell us things, more a question of whether or not they would buy our things.

Who cares - EU is a mature market in rapid decline. India and China is where the growth is.

Well that's one way of looking at it, here's another way of looking at it...

[eatcustard]

FredClogs said:

It's not a question of whether or not they would sell us things, more a question of whether or not they would buy our things.

Yes they would, business is business.

[Jinx]

FredClogs said:

Well that's one way of looking at it, here's another way of looking at it...

Not quite true as a lot of that "trade to Europe" is not final destination Europe but via European trade hubs.

[loose cannon]

FredClogs said:

Yes, largely because of the brutality and expense of two world wars caused by centuries old European discourse and of course the realisation that imperial colonialism and slavery was perhaps not all that great an example to set your kids.

We're an Island nation of 70 million people, increasingly irrelevant to world trade, we have no unique skills other than brewing whisky, making fancy wool sweaters, overly buttered biscuits and moving other peoples money around for them (which in itself is not really unique to London).

If you're still holding on to some Rule Britannia fantasy then I don't want to be the one to burst your bubble, but perhaps try getting out a bit more?

Whilst I agree we don't have much industry anymore were is the money coming in from at the moment then that will suddenly stop if we are to leave the eu, do they pay us lots to be in ? Something we don't no about or should we all hail the banking and finance industry for paying everyone's wages, we don't export lots as you stated above so im confused how you think leaving will destroy the uk

[plasticpig]

powerstroke said:

Yes we really need all the german , french, Italian cars ,plant and HGVs
we would be in a mess if a guy who sells chinese photocopers couldn't lease an Audi...
Im sure germany would refuse to sell us things
Um seriously kid have you seen the trade defacit we have with the rest of the EU ??????

It would be a lot worse if it wasn't for the a massive surplus in the trade in services with the EU. Something which could be badly affected by leaving the EU. Free movement of people and capital helps a lot when exporting services. Services account for 40% of our exports.

[Jinx]

Of course the real question is also what will staying in look like? Given the multiple attacks on our finance sectors from the EU it will only be a matter of time before the UK loses this advantage over out European competitors (yes that's right they are our competitors not "partners in Europe" )
So remember when you vote it is not the choice between an unknown Brexit and a known EU but an unknown EU future as well (one that is getting more and more uncomfortable politically and financially for the UK) .

[4x4Tyke]

v8250 said:

4x4Tyke said:

Looks like a perfectly edible banana, to me.

"Now stop right there. No eating of curved bananas. The EU-overlords dictate curvature of less than 10degs"

On a serious note, bananas are a highly nutritious food source...I wonder what is the annual tonnage of banana food waste as a direct result of EU intervention? Food for thought or starving millions...?

[John145]

Business is a red herring, just as it was in the last vote.

What you're voting for is ever closer union.

IMO, the modern world wants smaller governments. The end of empires and the growth of indepedence movements and decentralised government. Hence, I hope for an out vote. I prefer a small state and an in vote is for the opposite.

[CaptainSlow]

eatcustard said:

handpaper said:

v8250 said:

I have seen some poles over the past weeks confirming 68% are voting OUT.

Most of the Poles in my workplace want the UK to Leave, too.
"fking Bulgarians", they mutter...

Are they allowed to vote?

No. Originally the EU wanted all EU citizens living in the UK to have the right to vote. Turkeys Christmas anyone?

[ATG]

alfie2244 said:

Where were we before we joined the "common market"? Major trading nation for centuries and now we can't stand on our own 2 feet? - my arse.

Of course we could survive outside the EU, but why make life harder for ourselves?

The economic case for EU membership had been made convincingly over and over again. Truth is the "out" brigade either don't understand it or don't care. I suspect it's generally the latter, because from what I can see the real motivation for leaving the EU is primarily emotional, not rational.

If you go to one of these campaign meetings, look around at your fellow travelers and ask your self honestly if you'd trust them to make sound, informed decisions on other subjects too.

[Jinx]

ATG said:

The economic case for EU membership had been made convincingly over and over again.

Sorry that must have passed me by. The economic case for trading with Europe is self evident but being part of the EU is not.
The self same "economic case" you allude to was made for the exchange rate mechanism and for joining the €

[anonymous-user]

v8250 said:

4x4Tyke said:

I wonder what is the annual tonnage of banana food waste as a direct result of EU intervention? Food for thought or starving millions...?

10% min, ie about 1.7 million tonnes a year not able to be sold, or 45,000 lorry loads.

[v8250]

http://livestream.com/accounts/16851580/events/484...

Gents, here's the livestream link for this evening's GO London event at QEII Conference Centre.

[voyds9]

FredClogs said:

It's not a question of whether or not they would sell us things, more a question of whether or not they would buy our things.

Does make me wonder how USA, China make ends meet without access to the European market.