Banning the Burqini...
Discussion
desolate said:
My son goes to a single sex school and my daughter was as a single sex school until last term and is now moving to a mixed school. There is sex segregation in other walks of life.
I am confirmed atheist.
As am I and as is Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins etc. And on this subject you need to read what they are saying.I am confirmed atheist.
Mothersruin said:
You're not understanding anything are you.
As I said, she's purely the result of how the majority (so it seems, happy to be proved wrong) of French people are very scared and deeply distrustful of any indicator of Islam. Rightly or wrongly depending on our views, obviously.
What would you do if you were them? I hear you condemn but I don't hear your answers.
Btw, French Polic are armed. If it had been a ten year old being warned for littering, they'd still have been armed
If I were them I wouldn't be scared of any indicator of IslamAs I said, she's purely the result of how the majority (so it seems, happy to be proved wrong) of French people are very scared and deeply distrustful of any indicator of Islam. Rightly or wrongly depending on our views, obviously.
What would you do if you were them? I hear you condemn but I don't hear your answers.
Btw, French Polic are armed. If it had been a ten year old being warned for littering, they'd still have been armed
French courts have suspended the ban. Common sense at last
lionelf said:
desolate said:
I don't deny we need to address the issue of Radical Islam and related terrorism but I see muslims intergrated into society every day I leave the house
You say "I don't deny we need to address the issue of Radical Islam and related terrorism" but then go on to almost down play it with your "but....".Please don't just pay this issue lip service, address it now by suggesting a solution. As I said, I'm a left wing Liberal but people will die from terrorist incidents while this 'try to please everybody' prevarication continues.
Disestbalish the church
Drop the Lords Spiritual from the HoL (the existence of the HoL is for another thread)
Ban the sponsorship of all schools by any religion
Ban worship in schools
Change the teaching of Religion so that it is factual/historical
(Effectively make all schools 100% secular)
That would be a start and would put the foundations in place for a genuinely secular state.
That won't happen.
I would also be a bit tighter on the use of provocative language, but that is pretty subjective and difficult to police.
All the stuff about burkas et al is a red herring, although I agree that people should show their face and that I wouldn't be against properly draughted regulations about when it is appropriate to cover one's face.
I am not 100% au fait with the non-eu immigration regulations but I would be in favour of a beefed up citizenship test that included being able to speak English. This would have to be carefully draughted as well.
I am also 100% against the kind of military interventions we have made in the Middle East.
What do you think?
Mothersruin said:
Alpinestars said:
Mothersruin said:
Free will my arse. She'll have been waiting for her husband who'd have rocked up wearing a tiny pair of shorts asking for sun cream to be rubbed into his back.
Evidence? Or is that your view of women?The saddest is seeing young girls suddenly be wrapped up when they hit puberty. They go from carefree to seemly having the weight of the world on their shoulders.
Just observation and my interpretation.
I only ever speak for myself with my comments. I don't claim to represent anyone else.
Mothersruin said:
See, I get that and I whole heartily agree.
But....
Tell us what we should do.
If you were the EU then it would be that more EU is needed. So, do we need to be more accepting, do we need to embrace Islam and all convert to the book? Would that solve the issues the cultural schism the west is going through?
We don't need to embrace islam at all. Nor do we need to "ban" islam or "eradicate" Islam. In the West the reason most people have moved away from Christianity is (IMO) because we created a society where we didn't need to rely on a mythical God to enforce a cultural way of life. We educated people to show them there was a better way. You can't convince anybody that your way is better by forcing them, only by educating them. But....
Tell us what we should do.
If you were the EU then it would be that more EU is needed. So, do we need to be more accepting, do we need to embrace Islam and all convert to the book? Would that solve the issues the cultural schism the west is going through?
Mothersruin said:
So you agree with sex segregation on the whole?
Which bit of "I don't care as long as it doesn't belittle women" do you not get?I don't give a st/hoot/two hoots how people arrange their lives vis a vis gender so long as one sex is not being forced by the other to do whatever it is they are doing.
Alpinestars said:
Mothersruin said:
I completely complied with their laws, respected their religion and culture and erred on the side of caution if I was unsure of anything. At no time did I even hint at them changing stuff for my benefit.
Those companies/countries provided you a living and a career and your pay back is the hate you're showing. It's very sad, but you're not seeing the irony of the stance you're taking. desolate said:
My solution:
Disestbalish the church
Drop the Lords Spiritual from the HoL (the existence of the HoL is for another thread)
Ban the sponsorship of all schools by any religion
Ban worship in schools
Change the teaching of Religion so that it is factual/historical
(Effectively make all schools 100% secular)
That would be a start and would put the foundations in place for a genuinely secular state.
That won't happen.
I would also be a bit tighter on the use of provocative language, but that is pretty subjective and difficult to police.
All the stuff about burkas et al is a red herring, although I agree that people should show their face and that I wouldn't be against properly draughted regulations about when it is appropriate to cover one's face.
I am not 100% au fait with the non-eu immigration regulations but I would be in favour of a beefed up citizenship test that included being able to speak English. This would have to be carefully draughted as well.
I am also 100% against the kind of military interventions we have made in the Middle East.
What do you think?
I'd go with that. Disestbalish the church
Drop the Lords Spiritual from the HoL (the existence of the HoL is for another thread)
Ban the sponsorship of all schools by any religion
Ban worship in schools
Change the teaching of Religion so that it is factual/historical
(Effectively make all schools 100% secular)
That would be a start and would put the foundations in place for a genuinely secular state.
That won't happen.
I would also be a bit tighter on the use of provocative language, but that is pretty subjective and difficult to police.
All the stuff about burkas et al is a red herring, although I agree that people should show their face and that I wouldn't be against properly draughted regulations about when it is appropriate to cover one's face.
I am not 100% au fait with the non-eu immigration regulations but I would be in favour of a beefed up citizenship test that included being able to speak English. This would have to be carefully draughted as well.
I am also 100% against the kind of military interventions we have made in the Middle East.
What do you think?
Edited by Alpinestars on Friday 26th August 14:25
Mothersruin said:
Just having seen it on a regular basis.
The saddest is seeing young girls suddenly be wrapped up when they hit puberty. They go from carefree to seemly having the weight of the world on their shoulders.
Just observation and my interpretation.
I only ever speak for myself with my comments. I don't claim to represent anyone else.
As a father of 3 girls I have a huge amount of experience in this area. To any man who thinks he will be able to tell his wife or daughters what they should wear let me assure you that you ARE wrong and you WILL lose. My wife pays little or no attention to my suggestions and I've never even bothered with any of my daughters.The saddest is seeing young girls suddenly be wrapped up when they hit puberty. They go from carefree to seemly having the weight of the world on their shoulders.
Just observation and my interpretation.
I only ever speak for myself with my comments. I don't claim to represent anyone else.
FWIW there's far more arguments between Mum and daughters over what is/isn't suitable. But then i re ember my sister having the same argument with HER mum and I'd be surprised if that hasn't happened in every family down the generations, regardless of religion.
Countdown said:
Mothersruin said:
See, I get that and I whole heartily agree.
But....
Tell us what we should do.
If you were the EU then it would be that more EU is needed. So, do we need to be more accepting, do we need to embrace Islam and all convert to the book? Would that solve the issues the cultural schism the west is going through?
We don't need to embrace islam at all. Nor do we need to "ban" islam or "eradicate" Islam. In the West the reason most people have moved away from Christianity is (IMO) because we created a society where we didn't need to rely on a mythical God to enforce a cultural way of life. We educated people to show them there was a better way. You can't convince anybody that your way is better by forcing them, only by educating them. But....
Tell us what we should do.
If you were the EU then it would be that more EU is needed. So, do we need to be more accepting, do we need to embrace Islam and all convert to the book? Would that solve the issues the cultural schism the west is going through?
Alpinestars said:
I'd go with that, but you'd be pretty pissed after all that draughting .
I actually changed it to that as well. I hope my obvious illiteracy doesn't invalidate my point.In fact if they had spent more time teaching me English rather than RE and singing fkign hymns maybe my spelling would be better. But that's the Catholics for you.
Alpinestars said:
Mothersruin said:
Alpinestars said:
Mothersruin said:
Free will my arse. She'll have been waiting for her husband who'd have rocked up wearing a tiny pair of shorts asking for sun cream to be rubbed into his back.
Evidence? Or is that your view of women?The saddest is seeing young girls suddenly be wrapped up when they hit puberty. They go from carefree to seemly having the weight of the world on their shoulders.
Just observation and my interpretation.
I only ever speak for myself with my comments. I don't claim to represent anyone else.
Just going on experience. Could be wrong.
desolate said:
I actually changed it to that as well. I hope my obvious illiteracy doesn't invalidate my point.
In fact if they had spent more time teaching me English rather than RE and singing fkign hymns maybe my spelling would be better. But that's the Catholics for you.
Course it doesn't. I'm just being facetious. In fact if they had spent more time teaching me English rather than RE and singing fkign hymns maybe my spelling would be better. But that's the Catholics for you.
Countdown said:
Mothersruin said:
Just having seen it on a regular basis.
The saddest is seeing young girls suddenly be wrapped up when they hit puberty. They go from carefree to seemly having the weight of the world on their shoulders.
Just observation and my interpretation.
I only ever speak for myself with my comments. I don't claim to represent anyone else.
As a father of 3 girls I have a huge amount of experience in this area. To any man who thinks he will be able to tell his wife or daughters what they should wear let me assure you that you ARE wrong and you WILL lose. My wife pays little or no attention to my suggestions and I've never even bothered with any of my daughters.The saddest is seeing young girls suddenly be wrapped up when they hit puberty. They go from carefree to seemly having the weight of the world on their shoulders.
Just observation and my interpretation.
I only ever speak for myself with my comments. I don't claim to represent anyone else.
FWIW there's far more arguments between Mum and daughters over what is/isn't suitable. But then i re ember my sister having the same argument with HER mum and I'd be surprised if that hasn't happened in every family down the generations, regardless of religion.
Must have been a one off.
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