Its A Tall As The Eiffel Tower & Being Built In London...
Discussion
sleep envy said:
not really although you'll be unlikely to be granted planning permission unless you take into account sustainibility and green policy
Oh dear lord - perhaps this is the dreaded bureaucracy/ red tape that blights many of the proposed new 'super-tall' buildings... If my rather poor memory serves me correct, the Shard was granted planning permission a very long time ago. Moreover, there have been numerous other buildings planned for central London that seem to have got precisely nowhere.I was speaking to a chap in Dubai recently who told me that when they want to build a new 'super-tall' building they just do it. It can go from a paper plan to the finished article in a relatively short space of time.
I'm sure UAE planning regulations exist, but as with anything in the Country - if a Sheik wants something, they get it - and generally the people behind major projects are well connected.
It's interesting, because I generally hate Planning conditions in the UK - but having lived in the UAE I see why they're needed.
It's interesting, because I generally hate Planning conditions in the UK - but having lived in the UAE I see why they're needed.
Mattt said:
It's interesting, because I generally hate Planning conditions in the UK - but having lived in the UAE I see why they're needed.
Why is this? I've heard it pretty much a building site everywhere out there but surely in a few years when they've run out of money/oil and the building work dries up won't it be brilliant there?
Dr Imran T said:
sleep envy said:
not really although you'll be unlikely to be granted planning permission unless you take into account sustainibility and green policy
Oh dear lord - perhaps this is the dreaded bureaucracy/ red tape that blights many of the proposed new 'super-tall' buildings... If my rather poor memory serves me correct, the Shard was granted planning permission a very long time ago. Moreover, there have been numerous other buildings planned for central London that seem to have got precisely nowhere.I was speaking to a chap in Dubai recently who told me that when they want to build a new 'super-tall' building they just do it. It can go from a paper plan to the finished article in a relatively short space of time.
There's just no coordination of design on a micro or macro level it seems - yes there are certain major plans, but there doesn't seem to be the joined up thinking of development and infrastructure together.
I find business zoning odd/non existent too - in a lot of areas businesses just operate out of Villas in the middle of residential areas.
I find business zoning odd/non existent too - in a lot of areas businesses just operate out of Villas in the middle of residential areas.
one other thing that gets me is the typical shortsighted green policy bashing
taking rainwater harvesting as an example, personally I think it's a great idea as it reduces demand on the supply and waste/foul networks
not only that if it's adopted policy on new dwellings the owner/occupier will benefit from reduced water bills
installation costs are negligable these days so it's cost neutral
furthermore, there will be less chance of water shortages/hose pipe bans if there's less demand on the network and reduced risk of localised flooding when stormwater drains are below the current capacity requirement
taking rainwater harvesting as an example, personally I think it's a great idea as it reduces demand on the supply and waste/foul networks
not only that if it's adopted policy on new dwellings the owner/occupier will benefit from reduced water bills
installation costs are negligable these days so it's cost neutral
furthermore, there will be less chance of water shortages/hose pipe bans if there's less demand on the network and reduced risk of localised flooding when stormwater drains are below the current capacity requirement
sleep envy said:
one other thing that gets me is the typical shortsighted green policy bashing
taking rainwater harvesting as an example, personally I think it's a great idea as it reduces demand on the supply and waste/foul networks
not only that if it's adopted policy on new dwellings the owner/occupier will benefit from reduced water bills
installation costs are negligable these days so it's cost neutral
furthermore, there will be less chance of water shortages/hose pipe bans if there's less demand on the network and reduced risk of localised flooding when stormwater drains are below the current capacity requirement
<chokes on sandwich>......you bloody communist!taking rainwater harvesting as an example, personally I think it's a great idea as it reduces demand on the supply and waste/foul networks
not only that if it's adopted policy on new dwellings the owner/occupier will benefit from reduced water bills
installation costs are negligable these days so it's cost neutral
furthermore, there will be less chance of water shortages/hose pipe bans if there's less demand on the network and reduced risk of localised flooding when stormwater drains are below the current capacity requirement
sleep envy said:
Dr Imran T said:
sleep envy said:
not really although you'll be unlikely to be granted planning permission unless you take into account sustainibility and green policy
Oh dear lord - perhaps this is the dreaded bureaucracy/ red tape that blights many of the proposed new 'super-tall' buildings... If my rather poor memory serves me correct, the Shard was granted planning permission a very long time ago. Moreover, there have been numerous other buildings planned for central London that seem to have got precisely nowhere.I was speaking to a chap in Dubai recently who told me that when they want to build a new 'super-tall' building they just do it. It can go from a paper plan to the finished article in a relatively short space of time.
Central London for instance is a quite 'built-up' anyway thus I don't understand why there are so many objections and hoops to jump through before work can commence.I will see if I can dig up some more info. on the subject.
sleep envy said:
one other thing that gets me is the typical shortsighted green policy bashing
taking rainwater harvesting as an example, personally I think it's a great idea as it reduces demand on the supply and waste/foul networks
not only that if it's adopted policy on new dwellings the owner/occupier will benefit from reduced water bills
installation costs are negligable these days so it's cost neutral
furthermore, there will be less chance of water shortages/hose pipe bans if there's less demand on the network and reduced risk of localised flooding when stormwater drains are below the current capacity requirement
all that kind of stuff is simply sense, and is ignored for horsestaking rainwater harvesting as an example, personally I think it's a great idea as it reduces demand on the supply and waste/foul networks
not only that if it's adopted policy on new dwellings the owner/occupier will benefit from reduced water bills
installation costs are negligable these days so it's cost neutral
furthermore, there will be less chance of water shortages/hose pipe bans if there's less demand on the network and reduced risk of localised flooding when stormwater drains are below the current capacity requirement
t such as mmgw counter measures (windymills). get it right at a micro level, and the macro is much easier to manage.the edgar st tower in manhattan is a good example
Edited by tamore on Thursday 14th October 17:24
Approved 2003
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2003/nov/19/urba...
I can not remember whether the Shard was brought to the public's attention prior to that? thus it may well have been in the pipeline for sometime before approval was finally granted. Due completion date is 2012 which we all are aware of.
Almost a decade from approval to completion chaps!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2003/nov/19/urba...
I can not remember whether the Shard was brought to the public's attention prior to that? thus it may well have been in the pipeline for sometime before approval was finally granted. Due completion date is 2012 which we all are aware of.
Almost a decade from approval to completion chaps!
Dr Imran T said:
Approved 2003
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2003/nov/19/urba...
I can not remember whether the Shard was brought to the public's attention prior to that? thus it may well have been in the pipeline for sometime before approval was finally granted. Due completion date is 2012 which we all are aware of.
Almost a decade from approval to completion chaps!
so? this is london, not a desert.http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2003/nov/19/urba...
I can not remember whether the Shard was brought to the public's attention prior to that? thus it may well have been in the pipeline for sometime before approval was finally granted. Due completion date is 2012 which we all are aware of.
Almost a decade from approval to completion chaps!
Dr Imran T said:
Approved 2003
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2003/nov/19/urba...
I can not remember whether the Shard was brought to the public's attention prior to that? thus it may well have been in the pipeline for sometime before approval was finally granted. Due completion date is 2012 which we all are aware of.
Almost a decade from approval to completion chaps!
sorry, I don't followhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2003/nov/19/urba...
I can not remember whether the Shard was brought to the public's attention prior to that? thus it may well have been in the pipeline for sometime before approval was finally granted. Due completion date is 2012 which we all are aware of.
Almost a decade from approval to completion chaps!
you're using an example that was awarded PP 7 years ago, the regs have been revised twice since then and will be revised again before it hits pracitcal completion
what's your point?
My point is that it seems to take a very long time to move things along. I understand the comparisons with Dubai are not like-for-like. There are other developed cities where progress is somewhat more rapid when approving and constructing super-tall buildings. However, my point is not solely aimed at the approval of tall buildings but at the arduous process of getting permission..
Not wanting to veer of topic too much but obtaining approval for the 3rd runway at Heathrow has been going on for a long time. In the time that we have been dithering other airports such as Paris CDG and Frankfurt have had there runways approved and built.
There was some head honcho at Heathrow who seem pretty annoyed with trying to get approval for any sort of expansion at the airport.
Not wanting to veer of topic too much but obtaining approval for the 3rd runway at Heathrow has been going on for a long time. In the time that we have been dithering other airports such as Paris CDG and Frankfurt have had there runways approved and built.
There was some head honcho at Heathrow who seem pretty annoyed with trying to get approval for any sort of expansion at the airport.
sleep envy said:
Dr Imran T said:
My point is that it seems to take a very long time to move things along.
may I ask, what do you do for a living?I found this in the Guardian 2003:
In a move that will change the skyline of London, the deputy prime minister, John Prescott, has given the go-ahead for the 66-storey London Bridge Tower after a public inquiry. His decision is likely to encourage other tower block developments in the city.
Permission was granted following a three-year battle and despite fervent opposition from English Heritage, which complained that the building would have an "oppressive" impact on London and spoil the views of St Paul's Cathedral and the Tower of London.
A letter explaining Mr Prescott's decision rejected English Heritage's objections. It said the 305m tower "would stand comfortably in its immediate urban or townscape context".
English Heritage expressed its disappointment at the decision. In a statement it said: "We continue to believe that the tower, if it is ever built, would be an inappropriate addition to the skyline in that area."
It argued that the decision does not signal a green light for other tall buildings: "All new cases will continue to be considered on their merits against the established policy framework."
Edited by Dr Imran T on Thursday 14th October 18:37
Tbh you sound like a layman in terms of construction.
Whilst planners are the bane of my professional life, and currently my personal one too, I'm pretty glad we've got a robust system in place. London wouldn't be the same if it ended up looking like Coventry with a pocket of highrise.
Whilst planners are the bane of my professional life, and currently my personal one too, I'm pretty glad we've got a robust system in place. London wouldn't be the same if it ended up looking like Coventry with a pocket of highrise.
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