Muslim protests in UK
Discussion
s1962a said:
As I said in my post, clearly you've never met women that wear the Hijab.
Incidentally, do you know any women that wear the sheitel or tichel?
I haven't. If you're trying to deflect attention from Islam, I'll cave and admit all of the Abrahamic religions are guilty of trying to sculpt women as second class citizens. However I don't recall any British women being beaten and imprisoned after being raped by a Jewish man in the toilets of a bar in Jerusalem.Incidentally, do you know any women that wear the sheitel or tichel?
Art0ir said:
s1962a said:
As I said in my post, clearly you've never met women that wear the Hijab.
Incidentally, do you know any women that wear the sheitel or tichel?
I haven't. If you're trying to deflect attention from Islam, I'll cave and admit all of the Abrahamic religions are guilty of trying to sculpt women as second class citizens. However I don't recall any British women being beaten and imprisoned after being raped by a Jewish man in the toilets of a bar in Jerusalem.Incidentally, do you know any women that wear the sheitel or tichel?
Colonial said:
How about the Amish shaving off beards of those that trangress the ethics of society. Can we say all Christians are guilty of that?
I don't think it's helpful or adds anything to the discussion, because the discussion of hijab/niqab is based on a false presupposition that all Muslim women are required to wear them, they aren't and they don't, it's a tiny minority that do, and is as curious to me as it is to any of the posters here who are so hostile to Muslims.968 said:
I don't think it's helpful or adds anything to the discussion, because the discussion of hijab/niqab is based on a false presupposition that all Muslim women are required to wear them, they aren't and they don't, it's a tiny minority that do, and is as curious to me as it is to any of the posters here who are so hostile to Muslims.
I am hostile to Islam as an institution, not to Muslims in general.
968 said:
My bad. About 3 million British Muslims, of which at least 1-2 million are Pakistani origin.
Are the rape gangs mainly or only Pakistani?http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Mermaid said:
Are the rape gangs mainly or only Pakistani?
The ones that have been reported on and referred to here are of Pakistani origin, however, of course there are plenty of examples of men and groups of men and women grooming and sexually abusing children, of all sexes, which seems to be conveniently forgotten in this discussion.I recall seeing footage of the elections in Egypt after the uprising and a queue of women outside a polling station were being asked which way they would vote. I think there were about 20 women and only one wore the veil, most of the others said they would not vote for the muslim brotherhood candidate because they didn't want to take the veil.
Hardly an authoritative gauging of the situation I admit but it was interesting none the less.
I also feel that in France, after the Burkha ban was introduced, we should have seen muslim women on the street in their thousands demanding the right to wear it. As I recall it was only men, or women accompanied by men, who seemed to be protesting.
Again, hardly scientific, just struck me as a little telling.
Hardly an authoritative gauging of the situation I admit but it was interesting none the less.
I also feel that in France, after the Burkha ban was introduced, we should have seen muslim women on the street in their thousands demanding the right to wear it. As I recall it was only men, or women accompanied by men, who seemed to be protesting.
Again, hardly scientific, just struck me as a little telling.
br d said:
I recall seeing footage of the elections in Egypt after the uprising and a queue of women outside a polling station were being asked which way they would vote. I think there were about 20 women and only one wore the veil, most of the others said they would not vote for the muslim brotherhood candidate because they didn't want to take the veil.
Hardly an authoritative gauging of the situation I admit but it was interesting none the less.
I also feel that in France, after the Burkha ban was introduced, we should have seen muslim women on the street in their thousands demanding the right to wear it. As I recall it was only men, or women accompanied by men, who seemed to be protesting.
Again, hardly scientific, just struck me as a little telling.
Yes, probably says a lot, for me. Certainly having travelled to north africa, the middle east, south asia and the far east, the numbers of women who wear hijab is nearly always the minority.Hardly an authoritative gauging of the situation I admit but it was interesting none the less.
I also feel that in France, after the Burkha ban was introduced, we should have seen muslim women on the street in their thousands demanding the right to wear it. As I recall it was only men, or women accompanied by men, who seemed to be protesting.
Again, hardly scientific, just struck me as a little telling.
968 said:
Mermaid said:
Are the rape gangs mainly or only Pakistani?
The ones that have been reported on and referred to here are of Pakistani origin, however, of course there are plenty of examples of men and groups of men and women grooming and sexually abusing children, of all sexes, which seems to be conveniently forgotten in this discussion.Neither making rediculous claims that the majority of muslims are bad or burying heads in the sand will help the problem.
StottyZr said:
To be fair 968, the grooming and sexually abusing of children is a cultural problem. Theres pages of genuine statistics floating around to back this up, saying "it happens everywhere" isn't going to help solve the problem at hand. Your right of course, there is many examples of men and groups of men and women doing these things, but statistically in the UK its more common for the offender to be a muslim. And this needs to be addressed.
Neither making rediculous claims that the majority of muslims are bad or burying heads in the sand will help the problem.
I'd be very surprised if it is more common for these offenses to be committed by Muslims. It might be that in certain deprived areas of the UK, proportionately, there may be more men of Muslim origin involved with such cases than other groups. Nonetheless, it needs to be addressed for sure. However, then asking every single Pakistani/Muslim to justify their existence in this country and asking them to demonstrate their contribution to society is also nonsensical.Neither making rediculous claims that the majority of muslims are bad or burying heads in the sand will help the problem.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Hmmm...I wouldn't say so. Her dad's 1st generation so "relatively" religious. Her brothers I would consider to be as pretty well integrated (eldest is a ex UK Armed Forces, second one is a doorman, 3rd one is an unemployed weed smoking 17yo chav). I think it's something she picked up at Uni, not through peer pressure(for a 21yo she's pretty clued up) but probably from seeing other Asian girls behaving like pi55ed up ladettes.
I'll be honest. I really don't like the ninja gear. My Mrs doesn't wear it but NOT because I say so. It's because she doesn't want to. The stuff about Asian/Muslim women being downtrodden and suppressed is a false stereotype.
As an aside, this should be a good movie to see - London film festival.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2012/aug/29/relucta...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2012/aug/29/relucta...
The overriding issue in all of this is quite simple, any immigrant who has a problem with their adopted country should go back to the country they immigrated from. I think you will find the British people are more than happy to accomodate and welcome with open arms anyone from any background so long as they actually like Britain and are happy to try to fit in and adopt some elements of the British culture and customs.
I love hearing about the many immigrants who have come here and made a successfull and happy life for themselves, there must be thousands who have come here and contibuted to our society, created jobs and wealth for the country.
I have no time, however, for those who come here to steal from our social funds and then try to change our way of life from within, those kind of immigrants can f
k off back to the place they so desperately wanted to escape.
If thats racist then I'm afraid I must be a racist.
I love hearing about the many immigrants who have come here and made a successfull and happy life for themselves, there must be thousands who have come here and contibuted to our society, created jobs and wealth for the country.
I have no time, however, for those who come here to steal from our social funds and then try to change our way of life from within, those kind of immigrants can f
k off back to the place they so desperately wanted to escape.If thats racist then I'm afraid I must be a racist.
968 said:
StottyZr said:
To be fair 968, the grooming and sexually abusing of children is a cultural problem. Theres pages of genuine statistics floating around to back this up, saying "it happens everywhere" isn't going to help solve the problem at hand. Your right of course, there is many examples of men and groups of men and women doing these things, but statistically in the UK its more common for the offender to be a muslim. And this needs to be addressed.
Neither making rediculous claims that the majority of muslims are bad or burying heads in the sand will help the problem.
I'd be very surprised if it is more common for these offenses to be committed by Muslims. It might be that in certain deprived areas of the UK, proportionately, there may be more men of Muslim origin involved with such cases than other groups. Nonetheless, it needs to be addressed for sure. However, then asking every single Pakistani/Muslim to justify their existence in this country and asking them to demonstrate their contribution to society is also nonsensical.Neither making rediculous claims that the majority of muslims are bad or burying heads in the sand will help the problem.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-12...
His comments were factual, thats how he got away with saying something so seemingly racist. Sayeeda Warsi also backed his comments, I tend to find she talks a lot of sense.
StottyZr said:
Apologies I said "muslim" I actually meant Pakistani.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-12...
His comments were factual, thats how he got away with saying something so seemingly racist. Sayeeda Warsi also backed his comments, I tend to find she talks a lot of sense.
I don't think you'll find many people that argue with his comments. Indeed the fact that proportionately, as Tonker has pointed out, this group are overrepresented in convictions of these types, has to be addressed and as you note, Warsi (who is a Pakistani origin Muslim, last time I looked) has been quite outspoken on the issue, so not a deafening silence. Indeed I have heard of much discussion and soul searching about this from people who live in such areas. The reasons have to be explored and I feel that people are trying to address these issues. However, as Tonker also says, the descent of this debate into realms of labelling the entire population of a section of society is not helpful or right.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-12...
His comments were factual, thats how he got away with saying something so seemingly racist. Sayeeda Warsi also backed his comments, I tend to find she talks a lot of sense.
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