Tax Avoidance = Immoral
Discussion
martin84 said:
turbobloke said:
What Labour did, in summary, was to screw up the country at such a great price that our children will be paying for years.
Nothing like some biased hyperbole is there?http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/reality-check-w...
martin84 said:
turbobloke said:
What Labour did, in summary, was to screw up the country at such a great price that our children will be paying for years.
Nothing like some biased hyperbole is there?Do you accept that the New Labour administrations from 1997 till the caolition took over, committed to a level of government spending and therefore borrowing, that was well beyond the actual level that the UK economy could actually afford or support from taxation receipts alone?
My own view is that they clearly did: that the consequences are very significant debts that will take years and years to repay, and that during those many years, they will cost the UK huge sums in interest paid on the loans.
My view is that this tendency of modern politicians to spend more than the country can earn, or generate in taxation receipts, is the prime reason why so many countries across the financial world are in such difficulty.
Clearly you have views. I am interested to understand the method behind the approach.
martin84 said:
Steffan said:
I actually agree with you on this the Laffer curve is the key. There is undoubtedly a diminishing return when taxation is perceived to be excessive by the taxpayer.
General school of thought is that curve - in regards to the top rate of income tax - is about 40%. Gordon Brown delivered 11 budgets to the house of commons and in none of them did he bring in a higher top rate of income tax because even he knew that was the level where you get the most out of the rich.sadly, it is merely the headline rate income tax. There is NI to pay, SDLT when you buy a house, VAT of 20% on most consumption, duties on fuel and alcohol, road tax, import taxes...
I cannot for the life of me figure out why there is an incentive to minimise one's tax burden...
..especially when it is used so well for education, policing, health and translating pointless documents into 30 obscure languages...
coyft said:
In that case who is immoral? The tax avoider or the politicians for enslaving future taxpayers?
Both. Politicians enslave the taxpayer by spending and borrowing mire than the taxpayer can afford, in the taxpayers name. Tax avoider's seek to avoid taxes, by using devices and artificial mechanisms, that do not for m=part of an underlying business transaction, that are therefore dropped onto the shoulders of all the other taxpayers, who again pick up the tab.Of the two Politicians are far more dangerous. Both are wrong
coyft said:
Steffan said:
coyft said:
In that case who is immoral? The tax avoider or the politicians for enslaving future taxpayers?
Both. Politicians enslave the taxpayer by spending and borrowing mire than the taxpayer can afford, in the taxpayers name. Tax avoider's seek to avoid taxes, by using devices and artificial mechanisms, that do not for m=part of an underlying business transaction, that are therefore dropped onto the shoulders of all the other taxpayers, who again pick up the tab.Of the two Politicians are far more dangerous. Both are wrong
Politicians could introduce a top rate of tax of 90%, morally I may not agree with it, but I would be obliged to comply with it.
In my opinion a citizens duty is to ensure that they comply with the law and pay the correct amount of tax.
Paying a penny more tax than you have to is silly not savvy.
turbobloke said:
Agreed, the notion of paying more tax than you have to as morally superior or even desirable is simplistic collectivist twaddle. I've yet to read a substantiated account of voluntary additional monies being handed over by a tax-me-more-and-vip-me-harder-Brunhilde masochist. A USA state apparently set up a scheme where this can be done and allegedly a thousand dollars extra was received but there was no clue as to whether the chief tax collector had set an example
Paying a penny more tax than you have to is silly not savvy.
Thats true, but there comes a point where you know you are taking advantage of various loopholes and going against social 'etiquette' for lack of a better word.Paying a penny more tax than you have to is silly not savvy.
Don't get me wrong, if I had the choice of using K2 then I would probably use it, but I wouldn't have a moral leg to stand on if I got found out by the general public... thats just life.
Its like queue jumping. There's no law against it, but don't be surprised when people get miffed at you doing it.
mrmr96 said:
"There is no such thing as the 'spirit of the rules', only 'the rules'."
Quite. Of course the reason why our politicians have not closed all the dodgy Jersey loopholes is because they and their mates are themselves enjoying all the Jersey loopholes.The whole existence of Jersey, Isle Of Man etc under the umbrella of UK military protection etc is completely inexcusable.
It's a sad fact we have to rely on the Americans clamping down on tax havens to achieve anything at all. Meanwhile there are still plenty of places for dodgy Russians, dodgy Arabs and dodgy Africans to hide their money - in the sense of "hide in full view". Switzerland? I wouldn't cross the road for it.
Ozzie Osmond said:
It's a sad fact we have to rely on the Americans clamping down on tax havens to achieve anything at all.
seriously? delaware llc. tax free, no kyc or aml, no reporting, legally protected ownership secrecy, 100 miles from NY. costs about 250 quid. you take away tax competition guess what that leaves the politicians to do...http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/55991000/gif...
Edited by fbrs on Sunday 24th June 04:47
Eric Mc said:
I think he meant to say "That leaves the Americans to clamp down on everybody elses's tax havens".
Exactly.People moan about a comedian's "hypocrisy", we moan about the "morality" of tax avoidance. These things are small beer in the overall scheme of things and only serve to deflect attention from where it should be. Your average man in the street is so easily distracted it's untrue.
Let the leaders of these countries lead by example and sort their own houses out first. Then maybe people will listen to them. Stop profligate waste on what the money is spent on, and then maybe there (a) won't be as much need for such punitive taxation and (b) would be less people inclined to take measures to avoid.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Are you a genuine "low earner" or have you overlooked,
52% marginal rate on income.- VAT 20% (paid out of taxed income)
- Council Tax (paid out of taxed income)
- Stamp Duty (paid out of taxed income)
- Fuel duty (paid out of taxed income and itself subject to VAT)
- Airport tax (paid out of taxed income)
- Oh, I forgot the 40% Inheritance Tax payable at the end, if you've got anything left....
Not sure if this has been mentioned before in this thread, but one of the actions I would take if I were Osborne, would be that EVERYONE who is on the public payroll should be on PAYE. That should include the BBC, quangos and anyone who is paid out of public coffers. There should be absolutely no exclusions from this; no BBC news presenters being paid into a private company account, no dodgy CEs of Quangos being paid gross into their dodgy company accounts.
This may not solve the whole issue of immoral tax avoidance, but at least the public sector would be setting an example.
This may not solve the whole issue of immoral tax avoidance, but at least the public sector would be setting an example.
The BBC are suggesting Carr has improved his ratings see:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-18569...
No such thing as bad publicity.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-18569...
No such thing as bad publicity.
NorthernBoy said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
Are you a genuine "low earner" or have you overlooked,
52% marginal rate on income.- VAT 20% (paid out of taxed income)
- Council Tax (paid out of taxed income)
- Stamp Duty (paid out of taxed income)
- Fuel duty (paid out of taxed income and itself subject to VAT)
- Airport tax (paid out of taxed income)
- Oh, I forgot the 40% Inheritance Tax payable at the end, if you've got anything left....
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