Brexit Poll 1/2/16

[///ajd]

loafer123 said:

So you are saying that the EU external tariff on cars is 10%, but because the UK doesn't have its own external tariff at the moment, we wouldn't have one in return?

Firstly, what a load of tenuous rubbish. We would apply, under continuity rules, the same tariffs as now until a separate agreement was brought in.

Secondly, we could very quickly apply whatever tariffs we want if people apply punitive tariffs against us. Of course, this triggers a trade war which, in the case of Germany, would be more painful for them than us and wouldn't happen.

Take it up with the official economists for brexit, minford et al - its their idea, not mine. I agree its rubbish, that why I bring it up!!

If you apply tariffs to imports, you won't get minfords magic 8% cheaper cost of living.

cake and eat it. I'm glad you can see its nonsense, still want to vote for it? nevermind the economy, feel the sovereignty!

[Murph7355]

///ajd said:

Take it up with the official economists for brexit, minford et al - its their idea, not mine. I agree its rubbish, that why I bring it up!!

If you apply tariffs to imports, you won't get minfords magic 8% cheaper cost of living.

cake and eat it. I'm glad you can see its nonsense, still want to vote for it? nevermind the economy, feel the sovereignty!

Do you have any links that note your beloved Minford's ideas are policy/will categorically be implemented?

Do you also have any links from your favoured Remain economists where they have been able to predict accurately say 2yrs out...let alone 14yrs out?

It seems like you're putting a massive amount of store in guess work IMO. Go ask an economist what factors might impact the accuracy of their predictions. Then take the rose tinteds off and start thinking about how many of those could quite easily apply in the EU. Perhaps start with countries defaulting. Then add in additional members who are unlikely to be net contributors (let's face it, there are no more geographically European nations to add to the mix who could possibly fall into this camp, and yet the Ponzi scheme needs additional victims). Perhaps then look to an uplift in terrorist activities (safer in? Try telling that to the people of Paris, Brussels and Munich).

The economic arguments are a bunch of old bunkum from both sides. A red herring. No one can predict anything to any degree of accuracy, and no one can categorically prove either way whether a course of action will be positive or negative. One of the key factors (control of our own currency) is in place regardless of which way people vote. At least for now.

[///ajd]

Murph7355 said:

Do you have any links that note your beloved Minford's ideas are policy/will categorically be implemented?

Do you also have any links from your favoured Remain economists where they have been able to predict accurately say 2yrs out...let alone 14yrs out?

It seems like you're putting a massive amount of store in guess work IMO. Go ask an economist what factors might impact the accuracy of their predictions. Then take the rose tinteds off and start thinking about how many of those could quite easily apply in the EU. Perhaps start with countries defaulting. Then add in additional members who are unlikely to be net contributors (let's face it, there are no more geographically European nations to add to the mix who could possibly fall into this camp, and yet the Ponzi scheme needs additional victims). Perhaps then look to an uplift in terrorist activities (safer in? Try telling that to the people of Paris, Brussels and Munich).

The economic arguments are a bunch of old bunkum from both sides. A red herring. No one can predict anything to any degree of accuracy, and no one can categorically prove either way whether a course of action will be positive or negative. One of the key factors (control of our own currency) is in place regardless of which way people vote. At least for now.

It is on the economistsforbrexit website, and also laid out in the Ruth Lea link that was kindly provided above (or in the other thread, can't recall).

Ask yourself why is this the best plan the official leave economists can come up with?

Why is it officiallly endorsed by the official campaign if you don't like it?

[FiF]

turbobloke said:

///ajd said:

Who is this new professor then, are his views useful in supporting the leave case?

As he knows, but in typical ///ajd fashion ignores, the original point was in a discussion which concerned the usual Remainder theme of Remainders = educated, not just professors but educated professional people, whilst Leavers = a bit thick. Which elicited the comment that being a professor, even in a completely unrelated discipline, doesn't exclude from supporting Brexit.

///ajd decided to conflate that with Minford as if he is the only person with the job title of professor to get interested and have an opinion on such matters.

When told it's nothing to do with Minford, he remains unconvinced, and continues his baiting posts, because he doesn't realise he is completely out of order. No patience for this anymore.

[///ajd]

FiF said:

turbobloke said:

///ajd said:

Who is this new professor then, are his views useful in supporting the leave case?

As he knows, but in typical ///ajd fashion ignores, the original point was in a discussion which concerned the usual Remainder theme of Remainders = educated, not just professors but educated professional people, whilst Leavers = a bit thick. Which elicited the comment that being a professor, even in a completely unrelated discipline, doesn't exclude from supporting Brexit.

///ajd decided to conflate that with Minford as if he is the only person with the job title of professor to get interested and have an opinion on such matters.

When told it's nothing to do with Minford, he remains unconvinced, and continues his baiting posts, because he doesn't realise he is completely out of order. No patience for this anymore.

So whats his name then?

You said this professsor had strong brexit views and was sure we'd be OK out.

I'd like to look up who he is and see if he has some killer arguments.

[FiF]

///ajd said:

So whats his name then?

You said this professsor had strong brexit views and was sure we'd be OK out.

I'd like to look up who he is and see if he has some killer arguments.

Obviously baiting is obvious. Get out.

[///ajd]

FiF said:

///ajd said:

So whats his name then?

You said this professsor had strong brexit views and was sure we'd be OK out.

I'd like to look up who he is and see if he has some killer arguments.

Obviously baiting is obvious. Get out.

As I thought, the 'other prof' closer to home was indeed fictional. Oh dear.

Have a quick google, you might find another brexit professor!

[FiF]

///ajd said:

FiF said:

///ajd said:

So whats his name then?

You said this professsor had strong brexit views and was sure we'd be OK out.

I'd like to look up who he is and see if he has some killer arguments.

Obviously baiting is obvious. Get out.

As I thought, the 'other prof' closer to home was indeed fictional. Oh dear.

Have a quick google, you might find another brexit professor!

You really are a piece of work.
I'm sure it's a total breaking of site rules to post the real name of an individual who hasn't made any public statement in their own name concerning their views on this.
Apart from the site rules it could do irreparable harm considering the vindictive way we have seen the Remain campaign has dealt with individuals they perceive to have stepped away from their line.
I have respect for others wishes, including my own, to remain anonymous and for the rules pertaining to use of this site.
Yet you, have the downright audacity to accuse of lies, because you have no respect.
You don't know anything, you have no knowledge of whom referenced, starting with the first person.
You only have the ability to be a nasty unpleasant troll.
As before, please go away.
Discussion over.

[RYH64E]

FiF said:

As he knows, but in typical ///ajd fashion ignores, the original point was in a discussion which concerned the usual Remainder theme of Remainders = educated, not just professors but educated professional people, whilst Leavers = a bit thick.

Actually, the original point was a statement to the effect that the remain vote was bolstered by those 'incapable of rational thought'.

[///ajd]

FiF said:

///ajd said:

FiF said:

///ajd said:

So whats his name then?

You said this professsor had strong brexit views and was sure we'd be OK out.

I'd like to look up who he is and see if he has some killer arguments.

Obviously baiting is obvious. Get out.

As I thought, the 'other prof' closer to home was indeed fictional. Oh dear.

Have a quick google, you might find another brexit professor!

You really are a piece of work.
I'm sure it's a total breaking of site rules to post the real name of an individual who hasn't made any public statement in their own name concerning their views on this.
Apart from the site rules it could do irreparable harm considering the vindictive way we have seen the Remain campaign has dealt with individuals they perceive to have stepped away from their line.
I have respect for others wishes, including my own, to remain anonymous and for the rules pertaining to use of this site.
Yet you, have the downright audacity to accuse of lies, because you have no respect.
You don't know anything, you have no knowledge of whom referenced, starting with the first person.
You only have the ability to be a nasty unpleasant troll.
As before, please go away.
Discussion over.

Er, it was you, and no one else, who brought this new professor into the thread, and furthermore in an attempt to slander remainers who it seems were dismissing his views.

How can anyone have dismissed his views if no one knows who he is or what his views are?

Its all very confusing.

[Mario149]

Funkycoldribena said:

Mario149 said:

It's not saying there aren't valid arguments for the leave side, but to assume that on average the smartest people in the country are all making the same wrong decision is a bit daft.

I don't think it is.
You've got to be pretty dumb to vote for an institution that wastes millions and ignores democracy.How the hell anyone with an ounce of brainpower would want more of it is bewildering.

And with comments like we see why it's generally "the not quite as sharp as the rest" wanting Brexit. As someone else said, if you can't see the nuances here and the fact it's not as cut and dried as you'd like, then you're not really on the ball. I'm pro Remain, but I acknowledge there are some benefits to Brexit. I just think there are more benefits to Remain. I've been debating FOR the Brexit cause on FB with friends (who know I'm Remain) to stimulate debate and make people think about their own decision.

[FiF]

RYH64E said:

FiF said:

As he knows, but in typical ///ajd fashion ignores, the original point was in a discussion which concerned the usual Remainder theme of Remainders = educated, not just professors but educated professional people, whilst Leavers = a bit thick.

Actually, the original point was a statement to the effect that the remain vote was bolstered by those 'incapable of rational thought'.

Not quite true, to which you immediately assumed he meant Remain and countered by taking it down the educated =Remain etc.

Turbobloke correctly pointed out as follows

Turbobloke said:

The comment from REALIST123 was that, in their view based on their experience, there are far too many - rather than 'those on the remain side' i.e. all.

Which you then took further down the line accusing TB of splitting hairs, if splitting hairs involves reading accurately what somebody wrote, and went on quoting the stats and resulted in my heavy paraphrasing above.

In my opinion there are indeed too many people who aren't capable of giving the matter rational thought or choose not to do so but simply choose a view based on following personalities or based on tribalism; both sides guilty just to make it clear.

[Mario149]

powerstroke said:

Mario149 said:

Funkycoldribena said:

Shows you can be very bright in one area of life but very dim in others.

Not really, no. We're not talking nerdy professors here who never step outside the library, we're by and large talking about professional people who are well educated and have been successful in life.

It's not saying there aren't valid arguments for the leave side, but to assume that on average the smartest people in the country are all making the same wrong decision is a bit daft.

Most are just good at remembering what some other idiot has told them and putting it on a exam paper , some of the daftest people I've ever met had a degree .... clever on paper but no common sense... so I have no difficulty in seeing why they would drink in the official line on the EU ...

That's the standard "university of life" answer and is basically b*ll*cks. We all know people without degrees who are switched on and do well, and vice versa. But if you're trying to argue that somehow on average the cream of the crop, the best and brightest, the people to which we should entrust the big decisions, all somehow slipped through the net of education and success and are biding their time working at Sainsburys on £15K with a couple of O-Levels just waiting for the moment they can let their intellectual and analytical brilliance shine through for the Brexit vote because apparently the AB/uni educated demographic are mostly morons, I think you're somewhat shy of the mark.

Edited by Mario149 on Sunday 22 May 15:07

[Vincefox]

Is anyone voting based on issues other than the potential financial implications?

[zygalski]

Bigotry & xenophobia would be popular reasons I would think.

[deltaevo16]

Vincefox said:

Is anyone voting based on issues other than the potential financial implications?

Yes indeed, to me the financial implications are totally up in the air, no one really knows one way or the other.
To me it's about the further expansion of the EU, the lack of democracy, the raids on sovereignty that have been eroded over the last decade. Faceless unelected bureaucrats making up the rules like they somehow know what's good for us.

If you have not watched Brexit the movie, I suggest you do, it's not a shouty immigration film, it's deals with lots of detail about how we are controlled by the EU, it's certainly an eye opener, and one that should be shown on mainstream Channels.

[Likes Fast Cars]

Funkycoldribena said:

Maybe it was a bit too vociferous, but its just so alien to my way of thinking.
I know its not greatly comparable but if I ran a company like the eu runs its affairs I'd be locked up and bankrupt within a few months, .....

Exactly.

[Likes Fast Cars]

REALIST123 said:

Oh well, at least I'll be able to tell my grandkids that I voted against it.

[Mario149]

Vincefox said:

Is anyone voting based on issues other than the potential financial implications?

Financial is a small part of how I'm choosing to vote. But I'm fundamentally in favour of a whole load of countries banding together with common aims. Europe has come *so* far in the last 70 years, and I'm actually quite proud of what has been achieved given the chaos at the end of the last war and the fact that we've been part of it. So apart from anything else, us throwing our teddies out of the pram and storming off in a huff just because migrants are suddenly high on the agenda, people aren't quite sure how the European parliament works and someone is saying we might be able to trade more outside but can't prove it, seems a bit of a waste.

[PRTVR]

Mario149 said:

Vincefox said:

Is anyone voting based on issues other than the potential financial implications?

Financial is a small part of how I'm choosing to vote. But I'm fundamentally in favour of a whole load of countries banding together with common aims. Europe has come *so* far in the last 70 years, and I'm actually quite proud of what has been achieved given the chaos at the end of the last war and the fact that we've been part of it. So apart from anything else, us throwing our teddies out of the pram and storming off in a huff just because migrants are suddenly high on the agenda, people aren't quite sure how the European parliament works and someone is saying we might be able to trade more outside but can't prove it, seems a bit of a waste.

Immigration high on the agenda..... wait till there is a rise in the far right throughout Europe then tell me that immigration is not a problem, Austria may be the first of many, we may be entering interesting times and not in a good way,all thanks to the EU and it's failure with immigration.