Are men afraid of transgender women?

[dudleybloke]

WinstonWolf said:

fking mental?

I'm sure 'heteronormative' and 'cisgendered' are actual words in your world, but they just make you look mental to everyone else.

I've only ever heard of those words on this thread.

[mph1977]

BrabusMog said:

Do you realise how intolerant your own posts sound? If you're so enlightened, I'd expect you to have respect for people who struggle to grasp this issue in the way you do. It makes you come across as a total prat.

There's a difference between genuine ignorance and the willful ignorance and bigotry being displayed by the 'powerfully built' ...

however that difference appears to be lost on some.

[Einion Yrth]

There's a difference between trying to educate and being aggressive and belligerent, a point apparently lost on you.

[dudleybloke]

I can't believe that Ricky Gervaise is getting grief off the libtards for taking the piss about Jenner's drink driving accident. Calling him transphobic when he never mentioned gender or sexuality.
Does this mean you are immune to criticism about anything if you wear a frock?

[BrabusMog]

mph1977 said:

BrabusMog said:

Do you realise how intolerant your own posts sound? If you're so enlightened, I'd expect you to have respect for people who struggle to grasp this issue in the way you do. It makes you come across as a total prat.

There's a difference between genuine ignorance and the willful ignorance and bigotry being displayed by the 'powerfully built' ...

however that difference appears to be lost on some.

Sorry mate, but you called me on something I said earlier and I wasn't being wilfully ignorant or a bigot, I was stating an opinion. People like you actually do the causes you support more damage than good, because the harder nosed people (I'm not one of them) will argue until you're both blue in the face, and then you all end up looking like prats.

This is a very sensitive and extreme subject, in my opinion bordering on taboo due to the age of some "trans" kids now, and it is something that I think really shouldn't be an issue until 18.

My opinion is: Allow your body to go through the change if you're unsure, maybe the hormones will catch up. If they don't, and counselling doesn't help, then maybe it's time for drastic and Life changing surgery. But it should not be undertaken lightly. I am also of the very strong opinion that even an 18 year old can barely make Life long decisions correctly, but I concede this is the legal adult age, so after that time it's up to them... But fk me, if I had made some permanent decisions even when I was 21, I'd not be in the comfortable position I am today.

[Smiler.]

dudleybloke said:

I can't believe that Ricky Gervaise is getting grief off the libtards for taking the piss about Jenner's drink driving accident. Calling him transphobic when he never mentioned gender or sexuality.
Does this mean you are immune to criticism about anything if you wear a frock?

Don't tell our resident wrong-righter about the latest Viz cartoon, Sid the Sex Change.

[BrabusMog]

dudleybloke said:

I can't believe that Ricky Gervaise is getting grief off the libtards for taking the piss about Jenner's drink driving accident. Calling him transphobic when he never mentioned gender or sexuality.
Does this mean you are immune to criticism about anything if you wear a frock?

I hope they haven't seen how Jenner is portrayed in South Park then

[dudleybloke]

BrabusMog said:

I hope they haven't seen how Jenner is portrayed in South Park then

Careful...... PC Principal will be after you!

[BrabusMog]

dudleybloke said:

BrabusMog said:

I hope they haven't seen how Jenner is portrayed in South Park then

Careful...... PC Principal will be after you!

[bodhi]

BrabusMog said:

Do you realise how intolerant your own posts sound? If you're so enlightened, I'd expect you to have respect for people who struggle to grasp this issue in the way you do. It makes you come across as a total prat.

I do find it interesting that those who spend their lives making up random words and preaching about tolerance, tend to be the most intolerant of the lot.

[otolith]

BrabusMog said:

My opinion is: Allow your body to go through the change if you're unsure, maybe the hormones will catch up. If they don't, and counselling doesn't help, then maybe it's time for drastic and Life changing surgery. But it should not be undertaken lightly. I am also of the very strong opinion that even an 18 year old can barely make Life long decisions correctly, but I concede this is the legal adult age, so after that time it's up to them... But fk me, if I had made some permanent decisions even when I was 21, I'd not be in the comfortable position I am today.

The trouble is that their body is about to make permanent and life altering changes all of its own accord. This is going to (a) cause them a great deal of distress and possibly contribute to them topping themselves and (b) mean that if they remain of their resolve that they are transgendered, any future transition will be considerably less successful.

To my mind, this temporary, reversible way of treating the condition is the conservative wait-and-see option.

[WinstonWolf]

mph1977 said:

WinstonWolf said:

I'm sure 'heteronormative' and 'cisgendered' are actual words in your world, but they just make you look mental to everyone else.

Thank you for confirming your ignorance and bigotry and that you view anyone outside your little bubble as a defective ...

the 1890s rang , they are wondering when you are going back ...

Ah, so you *can* communicate in English as well as fluent bullst bingo.

I'll let you into a secret. 99.9% of the world don't give a fk what 'cisgendered' and all your other made up niche words mean. Speak in English and people won't think you're such a nob.

Your language makes appear far more defective than any bloke who wants to wear a frock. It might make you seem big and clever in a meeting, in the real world, meh...

[BrabusMog]

bodhi said:

BrabusMog said:

Do you realise how intolerant your own posts sound? If you're so enlightened, I'd expect you to have respect for people who struggle to grasp this issue in the way you do. It makes you come across as a total prat.

I do find it interesting that those who spend their lives making up random words and preaching about tolerance, tend to be the most intolerant of the lot.

?

[BrabusMog]

otolith said:

BrabusMog said:

My opinion is: Allow your body to go through the change if you're unsure, maybe the hormones will catch up. If they don't, and counselling doesn't help, then maybe it's time for drastic and Life changing surgery. But it should not be undertaken lightly. I am also of the very strong opinion that even an 18 year old can barely make Life long decisions correctly, but I concede this is the legal adult age, so after that time it's up to them... But fk me, if I had made some permanent decisions even when I was 21, I'd not be in the comfortable position I am today.

The trouble is that their body is about to make permanent and life altering changes all of its own accord. This is going to (a) cause them a great deal of distress and possibly contribute to them topping themselves and (b) mean that if they remain of their resolve that they are transgendered, any future transition will be considerably less successful.

To my mind, this temporary, reversible way of treating the condition is the conservative wait-and-see option.

So if they put off the puberty, then what? Sex change surgery still has to happen, doesn't it? Surely that's going to be savage on the body of anyone, let alone a prepubescent? I don't see the physical argument for the puberty stalling drug, because in the long run the body is going to have to go through these drastic changes anyway.

[mph1977]

bodhi said:

BrabusMog said:

Do you realise how intolerant your own posts sound? If you're so enlightened, I'd expect you to have respect for people who struggle to grasp this issue in the way you do. It makes you come across as a total prat.

I do find it interesting that those who spend their lives making up random words and preaching about tolerance, tend to be the most intolerant of the lot.

you appear to be confusing have your prejudices challenged with intolerance ?

who has suggested that your 'normal' is deviant ... rather than challenging you on wanting to impose your normal on others ?

[otolith]

BrabusMog said:

So if they put off the puberty, then what? Sex change surgery still has to happen, doesn't it? Surely that's going to be savage on the body of anyone, let alone a prepubescent? I don't see the physical argument for the puberty stalling drug, because in the long run the body is going to have to go through these drastic changes anyway.

If they come to terms with their birth gender, they will stop the drugs and go through puberty as normal.

If they don't, when they are eventually old enough to consent to the process (16, I believe) they will change their therapy from the puberty suppressing drugs to hormone treatment. At that point, they will go through puberty of the gender they are transitioning to. After which, they can proceed with surgery (at 18, I believe).

[mph1977]

otolith said:

BrabusMog said:

So if they put off the puberty, then what? Sex change surgery still has to happen, doesn't it? Surely that's going to be savage on the body of anyone, let alone a prepubescent? I don't see the physical argument for the puberty stalling drug, because in the long run the body is going to have to go through these drastic changes anyway.

If they come to terms with their birth gender, they will stop the drugs and go through puberty as normal.

If they don't, when they are eventually old enough to consent to the process (16, I believe) they will change their therapy from the puberty suppressing drugs to hormone treatment. At that point, they will go through puberty of the gender they are transitioning to. After which, they can proceed with surgery (at 18, I believe).

yep that is exactly the pathway and it;s the pathway that WPATH suggest ( but of course the powerfully built have asserted there;s no consensus on any of the treatment / management of Gender Dysphoria et al )

[bodhi]

BrabusMog said:

bodhi said:

BrabusMog said:

Do you realise how intolerant your own posts sound? If you're so enlightened, I'd expect you to have respect for people who struggle to grasp this issue in the way you do. It makes you come across as a total prat.

I do find it interesting that those who spend their lives making up random words and preaching about tolerance, tend to be the most intolerant of the lot.

?

That was aimed at mph, not yourself

[bodhi]

mph1977 said:

bodhi said:

BrabusMog said:

Do you realise how intolerant your own posts sound? If you're so enlightened, I'd expect you to have respect for people who struggle to grasp this issue in the way you do. It makes you come across as a total prat.

I do find it interesting that those who spend their lives making up random words and preaching about tolerance, tend to be the most intolerant of the lot.

you appear to be confusing have your prejudices challenged with intolerance ?

who has suggested that your 'normal' is deviant ... rather than challenging you on wanting to impose your normal on others ?

The only prejudices I have, revolve around people who use ridiculous words like transphobic, cis-gendered and all the other PC-Speak you have come up with on this thread, because as mentioned they tend to be pretty damned intolerant of anyone who doesn't share their view on the world.

If someone wants a sex change I have no issue with that whatsoever. Wouldn't do it myself, and you can bet your bottom dollar I'd never sleep with one, but if someone wants to do that they can fill their boots.

Only thing I object to is all the fawning over Caitlyn Jenner, all the nonsense around "Ooh isn't she brave?". No, quite frankly, no she isn't. She's rolling in cash, has a supportive family and lived in the most liberal place in America, so no I don;t think she's been especially brave. Others who have done the same thing in less favourable circumstances then yes, but a reality TV start from California? Get f**ked.

[BrabusMog]

otolith said:

BrabusMog said:

So if they put off the puberty, then what? Sex change surgery still has to happen, doesn't it? Surely that's going to be savage on the body of anyone, let alone a prepubescent? I don't see the physical argument for the puberty stalling drug, because in the long run the body is going to have to go through these drastic changes anyway.

If they come to terms with their birth gender, they will stop the drugs and go through puberty as normal.

If they don't, when they are eventually old enough to consent to the process (16, I believe) they will change their therapy from the puberty suppressing drugs to hormone treatment. At that point, they will go through puberty of the gender they are transitioning to. After which, they can proceed with surgery (at 18, I believe).

You'll need to help me out here then... Are you saying that there will be no requirement for surgery when these trans kids take these drugs? So a boy who is actually a girl won't need surgery, he'll just get a vagina and lose a penis by taking drugs? If that is the case then fair enough, the puberty delaying treatment is a great idea, but for any other outcome it is borderline retarded.