Can we talk about Germany for a bit?
Discussion
s3fella said:
Not yet, but plenty of unwelcome fore play going on. AJS- said:
Though that leads us on to something else our wonderful leaders seem to have ignored in allowing huge numbers of migrants in with no real plan to integrate them. As they are stuck in limbo, unwelcomed, unable to work or integrate, even the doctors, engineers and genuine moderates are perfect prey for these radical nutjobs.
This is the real problem. Also for the children. It would be wierd to grow up in a place where people said you did not belong. That will make some people angry. And it only takes a few bad apples. Instead of importing chaos we should be exporting order. But the root problem is birthrates which leads to disenfranchising of many people. Syrian population:
1950 4 million
2015 23-25 million
2035 50+ million
It has to end somewhere, inevitably civil war.
Nearly all the problem spots in the world have one thing in common, high birth rates.
Birth rates are never mentioned on the BBC et al. Even Prof Hawkins "threats to mankind" conveniently omitted it.
Also all the rich countries in the world have low birth rates.
Yet we are told that those countries need higher birthrates to get rich and pay pensions.
Fishy!
Hugo a Gogo said:
the mayor of Köln is a woman, btw
you didn't mention any of that in your post
still, thanks for your informed opinion
The Mayor's sex is utterly irrelevant. you didn't mention any of that in your post
still, thanks for your informed opinion
Their Chancellor who opened the doors and invited them in is woman too, what's your point? That men would be better somehow?
Sex has nothing to do with competence or incompetence in this case. It's 2016 unless you forgot, no room for sexist attitudes like that, my friend.
interesting birth rates video http://www.upworthy.com/a-3-minute-totally-fascina...
s3fella said:
Hugo a Gogo said:
the mayor of Köln is a woman, btw
you didn't mention any of that in your post
still, thanks for your informed opinion
The Mayor's sex is utterly irrelevant. you didn't mention any of that in your post
still, thanks for your informed opinion
Their Chancellor who opened the doors and invited them in is woman too, what's your point? That men would be better somehow?
Sex has nothing to do with competence or incompetence in this case. It's 2016 unless you forgot, no room for sexist attitudes like that, my friend.
your post was about that link, and only that link, that's what I was responding to
Pesty said:
More enrichment.
Other migrants were caught "emptying their bowels" in the children's pool and masturbating in a hot tub, according to reports.
They are thought to have been caught on CCTV before laughing at pool staff when challenged about their behaviour.
Following the allegations, the historic Johannisbad baths in Zwickau, Saxony has banned migrants from the premises until further notice.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/637276/Johanni...
sOther migrants were caught "emptying their bowels" in the children's pool and masturbating in a hot tub, according to reports.
They are thought to have been caught on CCTV before laughing at pool staff when challenged about their behaviour.
Following the allegations, the historic Johannisbad baths in Zwickau, Saxony has banned migrants from the premises until further notice.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/637276/Johanni...
tting in the kids pool - even uncivilised people know not to do thatI find it strange that Germany is fked. No one has told me, people I know here or my family or friends. Yes there is st happening which cannot be tolerated in any way, shape or form but as a whole Germany is better off than most countries in Europe including, IMO, the UK.
The migrant problem is playing out quite negatively ATM but there were problems with the Gastarbeiter program in the past with regards to segregation and integration which still exist.
People can blame Mutti for opening the doors to migrants but this was very brave and humane. Every nation that had a hand in the pot when Syria was bombed should be helping with this huge problem. There is no easy or comforable solution to what is currently happening with the influx of migrants other than a time machine. Meddling in North Afican affairs over the past 5 years (and for many years previous) has had terrible consequences which cannot be repaired. With Austria closing boarders and impelmenting a migrant cap as well as some Nordic countries and Germany turning people who have no chance of asylem away, which is correct, the flow could be slowed down somewhat but we need Greece and Turkey to start playing ball.
What really worries me more than the migrant crisis is Turkey. Using this as a bargining chip to inch their way closer to EU membership is terrifying. Erdoğan, to me, is a toxic mixture of Stalin, Putin and Napoleon who is in charge of a land that is somewhere between the 3rd and 1st world and is too big to govern effectively with far too many tribal differences.
I went into it in a bit more detail (either on this or the migrant thread) but I still come to the same conclusion. Things will be interesting and if anything is resolved in the next 10 years or so, I will be astonished.
ked. No one has told me, people I know here or my family or friends. Yes there is st happening which cannot be tolerated in any way, shape or form but as a whole Germany is better off than most countries in Europe including, IMO, the UK.The migrant problem is playing out quite negatively ATM but there were problems with the Gastarbeiter program in the past with regards to segregation and integration which still exist.
People can blame Mutti for opening the doors to migrants but this was very brave and humane. Every nation that had a hand in the pot when Syria was bombed should be helping with this huge problem. There is no easy or comforable solution to what is currently happening with the influx of migrants other than a time machine. Meddling in North Afican affairs over the past 5 years (and for many years previous) has had terrible consequences which cannot be repaired. With Austria closing boarders and impelmenting a migrant cap as well as some Nordic countries and Germany turning people who have no chance of asylem away, which is correct, the flow could be slowed down somewhat but we need Greece and Turkey to start playing ball.
What really worries me more than the migrant crisis is Turkey. Using this as a bargining chip to inch their way closer to EU membership is terrifying. Erdoğan, to me, is a toxic mixture of Stalin, Putin and Napoleon who is in charge of a land that is somewhere between the 3rd and 1st world and is too big to govern effectively with far too many tribal differences.
I went into it in a bit more detail (either on this or the migrant thread) but I still come to the same conclusion. Things will be interesting and if anything is resolved in the next 10 years or so, I will be astonished.
Hugo a Gogo said:
interesting birth rates video http://www.upworthy.com/a-3-minute-totally-fascina...
Glad you are posting on the thread to give some ying to the yang.I see no evidence of slowing birth rates in the problem countries and i see those countries exporting high birth rate culture to new countries. That is why the birth rate in the UK is accelerating. So I am not as optimistic.
If high birthrate culture spreads, then we have a demographic culture change nightmare and civil problems in stable countries. 50% of babies @born in Belgium are muslim.
bencollins said:
If high birthrate culture spreads, then we have a demographic culture change nightmare and civil problems in stable countries. 50% of babies @born in Belgium are muslim.
Born in the West to Muslim parents. In contrast, other births , increasingly, to non religious people .bencollins said:
This is the real problem. Also for the children. It would be wierd to grow up in a place where people said you did not belong. That will make some people angry. And it only takes a few bad apples. Instead of importing chaos we should be exporting order. But the root problem is birthrates which leads to disenfranchising of many people.
Syrian population:
1950 4 million
2015 23-25 million
2035 50+ million
It has to end somewhere, inevitably civil war.
Nearly all the problem spots in the world have one thing in common, high birth rates.
Birth rates are never mentioned on the BBC et al. Even Prof Hawkins "threats to mankind" conveniently omitted it.
Also all the rich countries in the world have low birth rates.
Yet we are told that those countries need higher birthrates to get rich and pay pensions.
Fishy!
I wouldn't rule it out as a grand scale motive for allowing mass migration. It has the potential to avoid or delay difficult choices about Europe's massive social security black hole.Syrian population:
1950 4 million
2015 23-25 million
2035 50+ million
It has to end somewhere, inevitably civil war.
Nearly all the problem spots in the world have one thing in common, high birth rates.
Birth rates are never mentioned on the BBC et al. Even Prof Hawkins "threats to mankind" conveniently omitted it.
Also all the rich countries in the world have low birth rates.
Yet we are told that those countries need higher birthrates to get rich and pay pensions.
Fishy!
The panic is overblown IMO though. Having a declining population for a time need not be a bad thing if we prepare for it in good time. Yes it will mean cutting some welfare programmes and it will mean a squeezed generation has higher taxes to support pensioners. But that's quite manageable compared with transplanting half the ME to Western Europe and hoping they pay taxes and turn out nice by our standards, like the kids we never had.
It's more of a specific problem than a general one. Plenty of British families do have 2 or 3 kids. Some stop at one and many have none at all. But we're not going to disappear completely. I would suspect an extreme outcrop of the baby boomer generation would prove to be an evolutionary dead end, and the population would reduce by this amount.
For the birth rate and population projections for Syria that is also overblown. TFR has been in freefall since the 1970s and is just above 2 now. Europe in the 70s. The problem there is I suspect the rural poor are out breeding the much vaunted Doctors and Engineers.
We face the same problem to a smaller degree but I would sooner attempt to turn the sons and daughters of benefit scroungers into the tax payers of tomorrow than attempt the same with the jihadists of today.
krallicious said:
People can blame Mutti for opening the doors to migrants but this was very brave and humane. Every nation that had a hand in the pot when Syria was bombed should be helping with this huge problem. There is no easy or comforable solution to what is currently happening with the influx of migrants other than a time machine..
Perhaps it is reassuring to blame the west for all the ills of the Middle-East because after all if that is the case a change of policy might help "solve" the issue. In point of fact however the West has had a very limited involvement in the Syrian civil war. So to talk about "Every nation that had a hand in the pot when Syria was bombed should be helping with this huge problem" is very wide of the mark.There is no realistic limit to refugee numbers due to growing instability in regions with rapidly growing populations.
Germany might have chosen to open its doors to all regardless as some way of atoning for the past, but other countries have more sense. Charity begins at home and the most important "humanitarian" obligation is to ensure that your children have a safe country to grow up in.
JagLover said:
Perhaps it is reassuring to blame the west for all the ills of the Middle-East because after all if that is the case a change of policy might help "solve" the issue. In point of fact however the West has had a very limited involvement in the Syrian civil war. So to talk about "Every nation that had a hand in the pot when Syria was bombed should be helping with this huge problem" is very wide of the mark.
Whatever helps you sleep.scherzkeks said:
JagLover said:
Perhaps it is reassuring to blame the west for all the ills of the Middle-East because after all if that is the case a change of policy might help "solve" the issue. In point of fact however the West has had a very limited involvement in the Syrian civil war. So to talk about "Every nation that had a hand in the pot when Syria was bombed should be helping with this huge problem" is very wide of the mark.
Whatever helps you sleep.scherzkeks said:
Actually, it is highly relevant when you call her a man and she isn't. It speaks to your thought process and attention to detail.
FWIW, I can't see the mayor's sex making any difference to how abhorrent her "arm's length" comment was, regarding how women ought to protect themselves from such attacks.Digga said:
scherzkeks said:
Actually, it is highly relevant when you call her a man and she isn't. It speaks to your thought process and attention to detail.
FWIW, I can't see the mayor's sex making any difference to how abhorrent her "arm's length" comment was, regarding how women ought to protect themselves from such attacks.Zod said:
It doesn't. The point being made was that, the poster's ignorance that the Cologne mayor is a woman, indicates a less than thorough review of the situation.
Do we know how old the mayor is?What colour is their hair?
What were they wearing when the interview was conducted?
Surely unless you can answer those questions you aren't fully aware of all the facts therefore unable to make a valid contribution!
John145 said:
Zod said:
It doesn't. The point being made was that, the poster's ignorance that the Cologne mayor is a woman, indicates a less than thorough review of the situation.
Do we know how old the mayor is?What colour is their hair?
What were they wearing when the interview was conducted?
Surely unless you can answer those questions you aren't fully aware of all the facts therefore unable to make a valid contribution!
Huge amount of delusion being displayed by our left wing hand wringers yet again.
And it is precisely that, complete "delusion".
Yep, nothing to see here, Germany is great, everything is great, these million one "refugees" are the future of Germany, and Europe. Schityakek's wife can walk around anyway she pleases safe in the knowledge that if anything bad should happen to her, there will be a fully trained refugee doctor or engineer only a stone's throw away.
Everything is great! Germany is great! Carry on.
Only, please don't fk up the rest of Europe anymore than it already is please with your Utopian claptrap.
And it is precisely that, complete "delusion".
Yep, nothing to see here, Germany is great, everything is great, these million one "refugees" are the future of Germany, and Europe. Schityakek's wife can walk around anyway she pleases safe in the knowledge that if anything bad should happen to her, there will be a fully trained refugee doctor or engineer only a stone's throw away.
Everything is great! Germany is great! Carry on.
Only, please don't f
k up the rest of Europe anymore than it already is please with your Utopian claptrap. Edited by poo at Paul's on Monday 25th January 13:21
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