Brexit - real world implications

[walm]

230TE said:

So if two countries working together are no better than one, how many countries' scientists do you have to pool before the results are worthwhile?

andymadmak was on the money with his comment.
The UK is a net contributor to the EU.
So it would be possible to take the gross savings and reallocate some of it back to the sectors who used to get help from the EU - in this case scientists, but farmers being the other oft-cited example.
The problem is that there is no guarantee that such an allocation will happen.
That's why they're pissed off in the UK.
Now they have to waste time lobbying government and crossing their fingers that whoever is in power at the relevant moment helps them out.
In reality that makes any long-term planning or long-term projects a nightmare!

It's far worse for the Swiss who will still be paying into the EU but just getting less back than they used to!!

[Rovinghawk]

walm said:

it would be possible to take the gross savings and reallocate some of it back to the sectors who used to get help from the EU -
The problem is that there is no guarantee that such an allocation will happen.

That's why they're pissed off in the UK.
In reality that makes any long-term planning or long-term projects a nightmare!

Just an idea- the government could short-term guarantee UK funding for all EU funded stuff, with the good stuff retained beyond that & the dross trimmed.

Hopefully this would provide some confidence in the worthwhile stuff.

[230TE]

walm said:

andymadmak was on the money with his comment.
The UK is a net contributor to the EU.
So it would be possible to take the gross savings and reallocate some of it back to the sectors who used to get help from the EU - in this case scientists, but farmers being the other oft-cited example.
The problem is that there is no guarantee that such an allocation will happen.
That's why they're pissed off in the UK.
Now they have to waste time lobbying government and crossing their fingers that whoever is in power at the relevant moment helps them out.
In reality that makes any long-term planning or long-term projects a nightmare!

I agree, and said as much on another thread. Loss of scientific funding is highly disruptive, bad for the UK strategically and should be a high priority for the Govt to fix. If that involves increasing public debt, it's one of the few times I have no problem with that.

[FourWheelDrift]

Wells Fargo Bank moving into London buying a complete block. So not only are banks not leaving new ones are coming in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36826974

London, the world's top financial centre just getting bigger.

[jjlynn27]

Awesome. Are they 'coming in' or moving existing employees into a new building?

[jjlynn27]

230TE said:

I agree, and said as much on another thread. Loss of scientific funding is highly disruptive, bad for the UK strategically and should be a high priority for the Govt to fix. If that involves increasing public debt, it's one of the few times I have no problem with that.

It's not just about loss of funding. It's also about participating in research with others. Why is that so hard to understand? Every single notable scientist that I've found says the same thing. Are they all perpetuating 'Project gimme money for research'?

[anonymous-user]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/br...

82% of CFO's said they expected a reduction in capital spending this year
83% of CFO's said they expect a slowdown in hiring

(figures were 34 and 29% at the last survey but the article doesn't say when it was)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36827769

[anonymous-user]

This is the breakdown of full time students studying at Cambridge 2013-2014 by country

Afghanistan 2
Albania 3
Algeria 1
Argentina 13
Armenia 6
Australia 224
Austria 85
Azerbaijan 7
Bahrain 1
Bangladesh 27
Barbados 1
Belarus 11
Belgium 66
Bolivia 1
Bosnia and Herzegovina 3
Botswana 7
Brazil 50
British National (Overseas) 19
Brunei Darussalam 9
Bulgaria 51
Cambodia 1
Cameroon 1
Canada 296
Cayman Islands 1
Chile 45
China 1,009
Colombia 16
Costa Rica 2
Cote D'Ivoire 1
Croatia 22
Cuba 1
Cyprus 111
Czech Republic 56
Denmark 49
Dominica 2
Ecuador 5
Egypt 33
El Salvador 1
Estonia 29
Ethiopia 1
Finland 46
Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia 3
France 266
Gambia 1
Georgia 2
Germany 695
Ghana 17
Gibraltar 1
Greece 143
Guatemala 1
Guyana 1
Hong Kong 120
Hungary 68
Iceland 6
India 302
Indonesia 17
Iran (Islamic Republic Of) 42
Iraq 2
Ireland 211
Israel 30
Italy 324
Jamaica 4
Japan 83
Jordan 10
Kazakhstan 18
Kenya 20
Korea, Republic of 110
Kuwait 1
Kyrgyzstan 4
Latvia 18
Lebanon 11
Liechtenstein 1
Lithuania 77
Luxembourg 8
Madagascar 2
Malawi 1
Malaysia 201
Maldives 2
Mali 1
Malta 11
Mauritius 13
Mexico 56
Moldova, Republic of 3
Mongolia 1
Morocco 2
Mozambique 1
Myanmar 1
Nepal 7
Netherlands 168
New Zealand 98
Nigeria 47
Norway 32
Oman 3
Pakistan 65
Palestinian Territory, Occupied 9
Panama 1
Peru 7
Philippines 10
Poland 193
Portugal 77
Qatar 2
Republic of Montenegro 3
Republic of Serbia 36
Romania 118
Russian Federation 66
Rwanda 1
Saudi Arabia 16
Singapore 297
Slovakia 36
Slovenia 22
Somalia 3
South Africa 62
South Sudan 1
Spain 136
Sri Lanka 34
Stateless 1
Sudan 2
Sweden 82
Switzerland 51
Syrian Arab Republic 5
Taiwan 69
Tajikistan 1
Tanzania, United Republic of 3
Thailand 101
Trinidad and Tobago 10
Tunisia 2
Turkey 43
Uganda 11
Ukraine 28
United Arab Emirates 1
United Kingdom 12,416
United States 766
Uruguay 3
Uzbekistan 2
Venezuela 2
Viet Nam 29
Yemen 1
Zambia 3
Zimbabwe 7
Commonwealth sub-total 14,301
Non-Commonwealth sub-total 6,115
Non-UK sub-total 8,000
GRAND TOTAL 20,416

[jjlynn27]

jsf said:

This is the breakdown of full time students studying at Cambridge 2013-2014 by country

And?

[230TE]

jjlynn27 said:

It's not just about loss of funding. It's also about participating in research with others. Why is that so hard to understand? Every single notable scientist that I've found says the same thing. Are they all perpetuating 'Project gimme money for research'?

Well, funding is important, you can't do a lot without it. But I must confess that most of my knowledge of scientific research funding comes from drinking beer with scientists, and a good few years ago at that, so I'm not really qualified to take this discussion further.

[anonymous-user]

jjlynn27 said:

And?

I'll let you figure that out.

[anonymous-user]

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings...

Mainland Europe is looking pretty st.

[jjlynn27]

jsf said:

jjlynn27 said:

And?

I'll let you figure that out.

I'm sorry can't. I'm not an 'engineer' that didn't go to university.

[KrissKross]

jjlynn27 said:

jsf said:

jjlynn27 said:

And?

I'll let you figure that out.

I'm sorry can't. I'm not an 'engineer' that didn't go to university.

Not doubt you can probably get a degree in trolling theses days..

[paul789]

Well, I'm a full-on remainer who accepts this IS happening. We ARE leaving and I do not think a second ref is desirable or realistic (the lse analysis shows the vote was always leave).

So I'm fully behind this now and really want it to work. I just hope this is all scaremongering / BS / covered by the global growth we'll see:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/confidential-deutsch...

[230TE]

paul789 said:

Well, I'm a full-on remainer who accepts this IS happening. We ARE leaving and I do not think a second ref is desirable or realistic (the lse analysis shows the vote was always leave).

So I'm fully behind this now and really want it to work. I just hope this is all scaremongering / BS / covered by the global growth we'll see:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/confidential-deutsch...

I came across "Business Insider" earlier. It's an odd little website, mixture of relentless Brexit bad news, bit of anti-Tory stuff, a story telling us how popular Jeremy Corbyn is, and a fair amount of clickbait. I'm not inclined to treat it as a respectable news source just yet.

[kurt535]

andymadmak said:

walm said:

230TE said:

So what did I miss out? (Other than that if the EU chops Swiss and British scientists from its research projects for political reasons, that's probably not a good thing for the research projects).

Yes. That is what you missed.
And pooling two frozen out countries doesn't help at all.

You are right. It does not help. It's also not in line with what the EU is saying should happen. I posted an extract last week from an EU e mail that. (regarding UK)

We could of course ask the EU to stick to its own rules, but I think we all know which way that would go. SO what would be wrong with UK and Switzerland teaming up on R&D projects? After all, the money that UK received from H2020 and similar was small beer compared to our net contributions, so finding funding for suitable projects should not be a major issue.
It would have been nice if the EU had found a way to "be big" in their dealings with those with whom it has disagreements. Sadly, it looks like they go in for this kind of petty minded, spiteful nonsense which is, as you say, unhelpful.
Methinks if this is the way things are going to be, then we are better off out of it. Having valuable research funding being dependant on the whim of corrupt political pygmies does not represent a sensible way forward.

Small beer? Can you provide numbers to support this statement please?

Was funnily enough in a meeting today with a person involved in directing funding who was also 'quite' busy fielding calls from companies based in R&D within Norfolk and Suffolk who are already concerned at being dropped from EU consortia bids because 'they are leaving'. His idea of small beer money is rather larger than yours and having had some firm figures of the sums involved on a national scale Id be interested to see whether you can quote the same?

[mondeoman]

kurt535 said:

andymadmak said:

walm said:

230TE said:

So what did I miss out? (Other than that if the EU chops Swiss and British scientists from its research projects for political reasons, that's probably not a good thing for the research projects).

Yes. That is what you missed.
And pooling two frozen out countries doesn't help at all.

You are right. It does not help. It's also not in line with what the EU is saying should happen. I posted an extract last week from an EU e mail that. (regarding UK)

We could of course ask the EU to stick to its own rules, but I think we all know which way that would go. SO what would be wrong with UK and Switzerland teaming up on R&D projects? After all, the money that UK received from H2020 and similar was small beer compared to our net contributions, so finding funding for suitable projects should not be a major issue.
It would have been nice if the EU had found a way to "be big" in their dealings with those with whom it has disagreements. Sadly, it looks like they go in for this kind of petty minded, spiteful nonsense which is, as you say, unhelpful.
Methinks if this is the way things are going to be, then we are better off out of it. Having valuable research funding being dependant on the whim of corrupt political pygmies does not represent a sensible way forward.

Small beer? Can you provide numbers to support this statement please?

Was funnily enough in a meeting today with a person involved in directing funding who was also 'quite' busy fielding calls from companies based in R&D within Norfolk and Suffolk who are already concerned at being dropped from EU consortia bids because 'they are leaving'. His idea of small beer money is rather larger than yours and having had some firm figures of the sums involved on a national scale Id be interested to see whether you can quote the same?

Rwhw ffs.
He gave you a scale for the comparison

[jjlynn27]

kurt535 said:

Small beer? Can you provide numbers to support this statement please?

Was funnily enough in a meeting today with a person involved in directing funding who was also 'quite' busy fielding calls from companies based in R&D within Norfolk and Suffolk who are already concerned at being dropped from EU consortia bids because 'they are leaving'. His idea of small beer money is rather larger than yours and having had some firm figures of the sums involved on a national scale Id be interested to see whether you can quote the same?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3683...

At some point people will realise that it's not just about funding.

[CaptainSlow]

jjlynn27 said:

Awesome. Are they 'coming in' or moving existing employees into a new building?

They've recently purchased a large business off another UK based bank. The business lends to customers across EMEA.