Are men afraid of transgender women?

[BrabusMog]

bodhi said:

That was aimed at mph, not yourself

Thank God

[otolith]

BrabusMog said:

otolith said:

BrabusMog said:

So if they put off the puberty, then what? Sex change surgery still has to happen, doesn't it? Surely that's going to be savage on the body of anyone, let alone a prepubescent? I don't see the physical argument for the puberty stalling drug, because in the long run the body is going to have to go through these drastic changes anyway.

If they come to terms with their birth gender, they will stop the drugs and go through puberty as normal.

If they don't, when they are eventually old enough to consent to the process (16, I believe) they will change their therapy from the puberty suppressing drugs to hormone treatment. At that point, they will go through puberty of the gender they are transitioning to. After which, they can proceed with surgery (at 18, I believe).

You'll need to help me out here then... Are you saying that there will be no requirement for surgery when these trans kids take these drugs? So a boy who is actually a girl won't need surgery, he'll just get a vagina and lose a penis by taking drugs? If that is the case then fair enough, the puberty delaying treatment is a great idea, but for any other outcome it is borderline retarded.

It doesn't remove the need for surgery (actually, for a F->M I guess it might remove the need for breast surgery?), but it does address a lot of the issues that surgery doesn't - think about the irreversible effect that puberty has on the shape of a person's body, their voice, their face, etc.

[irocfan]

Ste1987 said:

It doesn't really say anything about the actual procedure, but just the psychological aspects of the issue; that trans-people feel alienated because no cis person wants to have sex with them, and apparently that should be frowned upon

hang on a second... by that logic if I'm ugly/rich/poor/fat/skinny/white/black/mixed and loads of people don't want to have sex with me, does that make them an 'ist' too?

What complete cobblers. I don't know any TG peeps, would I act any differently to them compared to other people I know? Nope, I take the piss out my friends mercilessly and expect the same in return - as long as they're good with that we'll be fine.

I think the below is a quality 'thought of the day' and sums up how things should be

[mph1977]

otolith said:

It doesn't remove the need for surgery (actually, for a F->M I guess it might remove the need for breast surgery?), but it does address a lot of the issues that surgery doesn't - think about the irreversible effect that puberty has on the shape of a person's body, their voice, their face, etc.

doesn't remove the need for 'bottom' surgery but the rest will be on the 'blank canvas'

it will have an effect on breast development both FtM and MtF

[Hackney]

popeyewhite said:

mph1977 said:

are you uncomfortable with hving sex with gg who has a 'designer vagina' or has had a hysterecotmoy or was born without a womb ?

I'll take this one if I may?

My answer is this: I'm uncomfortable having sex with another man. So it doesn't really matter what's been done in the chopshop. And another man is what it is. Big bones, big legs, large lungs and strong, manly hands. In Bruce Jenner's case - big shoulders.

Sharon Davies just heard she's not your type and breathed a sigh of relief

[mph1977]

Hackney said:

popeyewhite said:

mph1977 said:

are you uncomfortable with hving sex with gg who has a 'designer vagina' or has had a hysterecotmoy or was born without a womb ?

I'll take this one if I may?

My answer is this: I'm uncomfortable having sex with another man. So it doesn't really matter what's been done in the chopshop. And another man is what it is. Big bones, big legs, large lungs and strong, manly hands. In Bruce Jenner's case - big shoulders.

Sharon Davies just heard she's not your type and breathed a sigh of relief

as has every other female serious swimmer, triathlete and a lot ofthe gymnasts ... and i think a fair few of the serious dancers are breathing a sigh of relief ...

[technodup]

mph1977 said:

so structural discrimination doesn;t exist then ? is that what you are saying ?

what do you propose ' the normal majority' does with people who don;t fit this 'normal' you speak of ?

What I'm saying is the majority of people on this thread, on PH and in the country at large are not transgender. They are normal in this context by the usual definition. That's what normal means.

I don't expect the majority to do anything. Why would ?

I'd guess as long as things don't affect them most people simply don't care. Where they do care is when the more 'enlightened' like yourself start throwing around isms because we're not on message enough. Your attitude does the cause no favours.

[BrabusMog]

mph1977 said:

as has every other female serious swimmer, triathlete and a lot ofthe gymnasts ... and i think a fair few of the serious dancers are breathing a sigh of relief ...

Care to make any comment on your own intolerance? Or would you just rather mince around these pages screaming bloody murder?

[mph1977]

BrabusMog said:

Care to make any comment on your own intolerance? Or would you just rather mince around these pages screaming bloody murder?

At no point have i implied that those who live a boring 'normal' suburban life are of less value , what i have done is challenged their views and challegned their assertions that their 'normal' should be imposed

the fact you cannot distinguish this shows rather a lot aobut the closed nature of your mind and the lack of openness you have to ideas other than your own .

[WinstonWolf]

mph1977 said:

BrabusMog said:

Care to make any comment on your own intolerance? Or would you just rather mince around these pages screaming bloody murder?

At no point have i implied that those who live a boring 'normal' suburban life are of less value , what i have done is challenged their views and challegned their assertions that their 'normal' should be imposed

the fact you cannot distinguish this shows rather a lot aobut the closed nature of your mind and the lack of openness you have to ideas other than your own .

Sorry but you do come across as one of the less tolerant posters on here.

[BrabusMog]

mph1977 said:

BrabusMog said:

Care to make any comment on your own intolerance? Or would you just rather mince around these pages screaming bloody murder?

At no point have i implied that those who live a boring 'normal' suburban life are of less value , what i have done is challenged their views and challegned their assertions that their 'normal' should be imposed

the fact you cannot distinguish this shows rather a lot aobut the closed nature of your mind and the lack of openness you have to ideas other than your own .

Oh mate, you're beyond help. I don't live a "normal" suburban life, and if you read my posts, you'll see I don't have a closed mind. But you need to realise that if someone doesn't share your opinion, it doesn't mean they are wrong. I really hate saying this, because it makes me cringe when I see others say it, but you're either on a windup, you're a troll, or you have serious issues when it comes to comprehension of other peoples beliefs.

[technodup]

mph1977 said:

assertions that their 'normal' should be imposed

Their normal? Your normal? It's just normal ffs. It either is or it isn't. And it can't be imposed on anyone.

Most people eat meat. Normal.
Vegetarians don't. Not normal. Different.

Most people are not transgender. Normal.
Transgenders. Not normal. Different.

You can't apply normality to something which isn't. You can say it shouldn't make a difference to attitude or whatever but it's never going to be normal.

[Looket]

mph1977 said:

At no point have i implied that those who live a boring 'normal' suburban life are of less value , what i have done is challenged their views and challegned their assertions that their 'normal' should be imposed

the fact you cannot distinguish this shows rather a lot aobut the closed nature of your mind and the lack of openness you have to ideas other than your own .

At no point have I, or pretty much anyone else, implied that those who live an exciting and fulfilling LGBTXYZ life are of less value. What we have done however is challenged your views and challenged your assertions that your 'normal' should be imposed on us.

The fact that you cannot distinguish this shows rather a lot about your closed, confused mind and your utter inability to grasp ideas and concepts outside your little SJW bubble.

[mph1977]

Looket said:

mph1977 said:

At no point have i implied that those who live a boring 'normal' suburban life are of less value , what i have done is challenged their views and challegned their assertions that their 'normal' should be imposed

the fact you cannot distinguish this shows rather a lot aobut the closed nature of your mind and the lack of openness you have to ideas other than your own .

At no point have I, or pretty much anyone else, implied that those who live an exciting and fulfilling LGBTXYZ life are of less value. What we have done however is challenged your views and challenged your assertions that your 'normal' should be imposed on us.

The fact that you cannot distinguish this shows rather a lot about your closed, confused mind and your utter inability to grasp ideas and concepts outside your little SJW bubble.

see technodup's poost immediately above for strong evidence if not proof otherwise ...

[popeyewhite]

Hackney said:

Sharon Davies just heard she's not your type and breathed a sigh of relief

TBH Sharon's the one that I'd consider going over to the other side for. And that hurdler from the Olympics years back.

[Looket]

mph1977 said:

see technodup's poost immediately above for strong evidence if not proof otherwise ...

Proof of what, exactly?

By any possibly definition, trans isn't normal.

[BrabusMog]

mph1977 is an idiot, people on this thread should stop engaging him. I'm about to email The Viz with an idea for a comic strip...

[p2c]

Looket said:

At no point have I, or pretty much anyone else, implied that those who live an exciting and fulfilling LGBTXYZ life are of less value. What we have done however is challenged your views and challenged your assertions that your 'normal' should be imposed on us.

The fact that you cannot distinguish this shows rather a lot about your closed, confused mind and your utter inability to grasp ideas and concepts outside your little SJW bubble.

Actually that is exactly what has been implied with the arguments that kids should be denied puberty suppressants.

By asserting that no trans identifying kids should be prescribed blockers in case a small subset of cissexual children mistakenly identifying as transsexual will be inconvenienced. This is assigning a lesser priority and value on the trans kids lives. This is more so apparent when you consider the blockers will not have a substantial or permanently detrimental effect on their lives whereas not prescribing them to trans kids is proven to do real harm to the transsexual child.


I will also say i am using cis and trans terms in the interests of clarity and accuracy in a discussion where it is necessary to distinguish between the two. You can not have a fair and equal discussion about Cis/Trans issues without using both terms as to use trans and to omit the cis is again assigning more privilege and value to the cissexual over the transsexual. You wont find such terms used much outside of this type of discussion because society widely assigns a priority of assumption to the cis identity.

[PurpleMoonlight]

If I have a trunk made out of skin grafts and part of my thigh muscle, would that make me an elephant?

[technodup]

mph1977 said:

see technodup's poost immediately above for strong evidence if not proof otherwise ...

Don't talk ste.

Not normal doesn't suggest lesser value. It's simply different.

normal
[nawr-muh l]

adjective
1.
conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.

4.
Biology, Medicine/Medical.
free from any infection or other form of disease or malformation, or from experimental therapy or manipulation.
of natural occurrence.

Do please tell us how transgender fits that definition...