Cameron - crackdown on booze abuse
Discussion
thinfourth2 said:
Yet again its a case of
See these folk over here breakng the law and causing hassle
We are going to tackle this problem by punishing an entirely different group of people who aren't causing any problems.
And one day rather than sitting on their arse moaning they might actually do something about these people that spoil it for others See these folk over here breakng the law and causing hassle
We are going to tackle this problem by punishing an entirely different group of people who aren't causing any problems.
superkartracer said:
Sadly thats what happens when people take the piss with freedom, make it £10 a pint and sort a s
t load of issues out in the UK in one simple move :thumb up:
Be thankful this drug is legal
Great plan, let's make fuel £10/ltr too, see what happens to road offences.t load of issues out in the UK in one simple move :thumb up:Be thankful this drug is legal
Edited by superkartracer on Thursday 16th February 10:02
Ill-applied sledgehammer to a nut, as usual.
Yep increase taxes . Great idea . bl--cks . Have you seen the pubs the price of beer is far to high now . 25 years ago the pubs where full most of the time .Now you are lucky to get a bar full at the end of the month when every one gets payed . Thats why we have binge drinking cause most people save up to blow it all in one night a month. Plus pubs and restaurants are already going out of business. What is the government going to do when all of them go . Think of all the dole they will have to pay out when they all close. Its getting to the stage that it feels like we all need a tag strapped to our legs . Go to work pay your high taxes go home a stay there cause we can't afford to go out.Life is for living.
I watched my father go from drinking a few pints a night to become an alcoholic , great fun.
What does this drug have to do with cars?, go look what damage it's done in Russia/Finland/USA and now the UK ( to name a few )
Personally i'd fk it off , and i love a drink
What does this drug have to do with cars?, go look what damage it's done in Russia/Finland/USA and now the UK ( to name a few )
Personally i'd f
k it off , and i love a drinkEdited by superkartracer on Thursday 16th February 10:22
superkartracer said:
I watched my father go from drinking a few pints a night to become an alcoholic , great fun.
What does this drug have to do with cars?
So you have personal issues clouding your judgement. I'm sorry for your situation but not everyone goes down that path, it is a minority.What does this drug have to do with cars?
Booze, cars, doesnt matter - its about using the wrong method to address a minority by screwing over everybody. Typically such 'solution' never actually address the minority its calimed to 'target'. Of course, that is the fashion...just look at Scotland banning multi-buy promotions, utterly useless and simply inconvenient to people.
superkartracer said:
I watched my father go from drinking a few pints a night to become an alcoholic , great fun.
What does this drug have to do with cars?, go look what damage it's done in Russia/Finland/USA and now the UK ( to name a few )
Personally i'd fk it off , and i love a drink
Do you think doubling the cost would of stopped your father becoming an alcoholic?What does this drug have to do with cars?, go look what damage it's done in Russia/Finland/USA and now the UK ( to name a few )
Personally i'd f
k it off , and i love a drinkthinfourth2 said:
Do you think doubling the cost would of stopped your father becoming an alcoholic?
Yes because he's the tightest i've ever met Good friend of mine ( who happens to be an ex SAS nutter ) was telling me about the abuse his father put him though because of drink , including the sexual abuse..
he went on to say most of the SAS guys had a background of alcoholic fathers and abuse, funny old world eh.
It's the same old , give morons free range and they can't control themselves and spoil it for sensible folk..
I was listening to a radio show last night about this last night.
There were two guys, one an alcoholic and the other a recovering alcoholic, and both said no matter how expensive you make alcohol people will always find a way of getting their hands on some - either by shoplifting, stealing, robbing, own brewing, etc, etc.
It's off sales which are the problem - £9 for 12 bottles of high strength lager is pretty much available in any supermarket, 2L bottle of cider for a few quid, own brand spirits for £10. People drink loads before they go out and then drink even more when they're out, added to the fact that planners have done wonders in grouping bars and clubs together really helps it when it's kicking out time. I've never seen problems is places where late night bars and clubs are spread far and wide.
Rather than hit the people who know how to behave around alcohol they should just bring back the drunk tanks - 15 hours in a cell doesn't sound much like fun to me, I know I'd learn from that experience.
Oh, and for those calling for prohibition really should think about what they post - there's pretty conclusive evidence that it doesn't work. We don't even have to go that far back to see it was a massive failure and just look how well controlled drugs are kept off the streets
There were two guys, one an alcoholic and the other a recovering alcoholic, and both said no matter how expensive you make alcohol people will always find a way of getting their hands on some - either by shoplifting, stealing, robbing, own brewing, etc, etc.
It's off sales which are the problem - £9 for 12 bottles of high strength lager is pretty much available in any supermarket, 2L bottle of cider for a few quid, own brand spirits for £10. People drink loads before they go out and then drink even more when they're out, added to the fact that planners have done wonders in grouping bars and clubs together really helps it when it's kicking out time. I've never seen problems is places where late night bars and clubs are spread far and wide.
Rather than hit the people who know how to behave around alcohol they should just bring back the drunk tanks - 15 hours in a cell doesn't sound much like fun to me, I know I'd learn from that experience.
Oh, and for those calling for prohibition really should think about what they post - there's pretty conclusive evidence that it doesn't work. We don't even have to go that far back to see it was a massive failure and just look how well controlled drugs are kept off the streets
Agree about prohibition, the simple solution would be to stop selling the super cheap st to kids and piss-artists ( you are right about an alcoholic, once you become one theres no escape ) and make the law very tough on people kicking others heads in, trashing the place and generally being aholes, simple.
t to kids and piss-artists ( you are right about an alcoholic, once you become one theres no escape ) and make the law very tough on people kicking others heads in, trashing the place and generally being aholes, simple.wiggy001 said:
If the problem is drunks causing trouble as they spill out of pubs - enforce the current laws that are in place, if necessary by bringing in more police / prisons and a legal system that isn't afraid to punish.
If the problem is the cost on the NHS of these people (and alcoholics) - this is part of a wider decline in social standards and attitudes which will take years to correct, but I believe is basically a result in the decline of social responsibility.
In short - neither of these issues can be solved by raising the price of alcohol. All this will do is affect small business adversely.
I honestly thought you must have been trolling with your point of view as I didn't believe any adult could honestly believe that banning/pricing people away from something that they don't like would be a solution to any issue.
I can't believe you don't see how much of a problem alcohol is on our streets today . Why do I have to avoid high streets in the evening when walking with the gf just because dIf the problem is the cost on the NHS of these people (and alcoholics) - this is part of a wider decline in social standards and attitudes which will take years to correct, but I believe is basically a result in the decline of social responsibility.
In short - neither of these issues can be solved by raising the price of alcohol. All this will do is affect small business adversely.
I honestly thought you must have been trolling with your point of view as I didn't believe any adult could honestly believe that banning/pricing people away from something that they don't like would be a solution to any issue.
heads being plastered and ready to fight anyone . I can't see how anyone that drinks 4 bottles of wine a week would be affected ?? I do drink , my 10 vodka redbuls a week ain't gonna put me into poverty ! I'm talking about those people that think it's ok to drink 5-10 pints a night to which I know many
Edited by frosted on Thursday 16th February 11:30
frosted said:
I can't believe you don't see how much of a problem alcohol is on our streets today . Why do I have to avoid high streets in the evening when walking with the gf just because dheads being plastered and ready to fight anyone . I can't see how anyone that drinks 4 bottles of wine a week would be affected ??
Roughly where about in London do you live?heads being plastered and ready to fight anyone . I can't see how anyone that drinks 4 bottles of wine a week would be affected ?? Btw, if the the loss leading alcohol is stopped and prices are shifted up you can guarantee that everything will increase in price too.
frosted said:
wiggy001 said:
If the problem is drunks causing trouble as they spill out of pubs - enforce the current laws that are in place, if necessary by bringing in more police / prisons and a legal system that isn't afraid to punish.
If the problem is the cost on the NHS of these people (and alcoholics) - this is part of a wider decline in social standards and attitudes which will take years to correct, but I believe is basically a result in the decline of social responsibility.
In short - neither of these issues can be solved by raising the price of alcohol. All this will do is affect small business adversely.
I honestly thought you must have been trolling with your point of view as I didn't believe any adult could honestly believe that banning/pricing people away from something that they don't like would be a solution to any issue.
I can't believe you don't see how much of a problem alcohol is on our streets today . Why do I have to avoid high streets in the evening when walking with the gf just because dIf the problem is the cost on the NHS of these people (and alcoholics) - this is part of a wider decline in social standards and attitudes which will take years to correct, but I believe is basically a result in the decline of social responsibility.
In short - neither of these issues can be solved by raising the price of alcohol. All this will do is affect small business adversely.
I honestly thought you must have been trolling with your point of view as I didn't believe any adult could honestly believe that banning/pricing people away from something that they don't like would be a solution to any issue.
heads being plastered and ready to fight anyone . I can't see how anyone that drinks 4 bottles of wine a week would be affected ?? Same thing - it's not alcohol that is ruining high streets at the weekend, it's people with no social responsibility.
Along the same lines - have you seen the number of people killed and injured by cars in this country? Should we ban cars? Increase the price of running a car four-fold? Or should we educate and punish where appropriate? After all... it's not actually the car that kills anyone, is it?
Do you get it yet?
rappers dosleep envy said:
frosted said:
I can't believe you don't see how much of a problem alcohol is on our streets today . Why do I have to avoid high streets in the evening when walking with the gf just because dheads being plastered and ready to fight anyone . I can't see how anyone that drinks 4 bottles of wine a week would be affected ??
Roughly where about in London do you live?heads being plastered and ready to fight anyone . I can't see how anyone that drinks 4 bottles of wine a week would be affected ?? Two words; Pickwick Papers. I suggest Frosted reads it. Anyone who thinks abuse of alcohol is recent, novel or not deeply ingrained in our culture needs to get out more.
superkartracer said:
Car deaths - 2500 per year
Drink related - 10000 per year
750,000 from eating to much lard ( heart attack )
Cannabis - about 10 per year
So, ban cars/fat people/drink and smoke dope, simples
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moUChycJzIc Drink related - 10000 per year
750,000 from eating to much lard ( heart attack )
Cannabis - about 10 per year
So, ban cars/fat people/drink and smoke dope, simples
Edited by superkartracer on Thursday 16th February 11:39
Tunku said:
I can imagine home brewing taking off again with high tax on bought alcohol. Wouldn't bother me, but I'd have to go and wash out all my old demijohns in the garage.
Already got mine back out, now have a nice selection of bitter, mild, stout, lager and wine, trouble is someone keeps drinking it.tiredcl said:
Why do these policies always come down to taxing the life out of the industry.
Yes I am biased, I work in the real ale industry.
Look at the pubs (not bars) that serve ale. They are generally cheaper than any bars in the city centre. How then do very few (if not none) require door supervisors and police attendance is effectively none existent.
Bearing in mind some breweries will produce ale at up to 12% abv and the pubs normally sell "real" cider. None of this cider will be below 6%.
The people who frequent these pubs are able to responsibly drink in a social environment and do not cause problems. Why then should these people be punished for the majority of tools who feel the need to drink their own body weight in pissy lager or fruit based drinks for the "lady".
Surely a more targeted approach is required to those who cause trouble or more specifically those who pre drink before going out. That is the problem, that is not social drinking, its drinking to be wasted. Personally I think the 24 cans for a tenner is where the problem is.
Its quality not quantity.
Going out in 2 weeks time, getting on the train and will be hitting 6-8 real ale pubs and drinking loads. Generally finish about 6pm after 10-12 pints (start 10am) and back up for work the following day with no hangover.Yes I am biased, I work in the real ale industry.
Look at the pubs (not bars) that serve ale. They are generally cheaper than any bars in the city centre. How then do very few (if not none) require door supervisors and police attendance is effectively none existent.
Bearing in mind some breweries will produce ale at up to 12% abv and the pubs normally sell "real" cider. None of this cider will be below 6%.
The people who frequent these pubs are able to responsibly drink in a social environment and do not cause problems. Why then should these people be punished for the majority of tools who feel the need to drink their own body weight in pissy lager or fruit based drinks for the "lady".
Surely a more targeted approach is required to those who cause trouble or more specifically those who pre drink before going out. That is the problem, that is not social drinking, its drinking to be wasted. Personally I think the 24 cans for a tenner is where the problem is.
Its quality not quantity.
We are never any trouble and it has grown to about a dozen of us going.
carmonk said:
Something needs to be done, though. I and my mates spent 20 years getting royally aholed yet we didn't start fights, smash windows, puke in the street (much), assault coppers, shout abuse and litter the place up and we only had one visit to A&E between us (not me). There's a difference between getting pissed and behaving like thousands of these s behave every night.
You have said it right there, though. Something needs to be done, but it isn't extracting more tax from those of us who drink without turning into morons. How about we properly punish those who do stupid, dangerous and violent things whether drunk or not. holed yet we didn't start fights, smash windows, puke in the street (much), assault coppers, shout abuse and litter the place up and we only had one visit to A&E between us (not me). There's a difference between getting pissed and behaving like thousands of these s behave every night.I can get drunk to the point of passing out if I really want to and I'll never start a fight, and most of the people I know are similar. Some people I have known can get 3 or 4 pints in them and blow up over nothing. Drink might accentuate the problem but it's the person drinking who is the problem.
If people want to drink until they're sick, incoherent of fast asleep that's really their own business. However if their idea of a good night out involves beating the crap out of someone then they ought not to have nights, or even days out, as they belong in prison.
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