GCSE qualifications to be scrapped?
Discussion
elster said:
At present the exam system doesn't educate, as you say, it teaches them to pass exams. They sit paper after paper after paper and practice questions, rather than teach the subject as a whole.
Yeah because nobody who did O Levels ever sat mock tests or used practice papers to prepare did they? 
martin84 said:
JontyR said:
Students shouldnt be allowed to resit their exams, just because they didnt get the A* they wanted.
So a student shouldn't be allowed to be disappointed with their result, go away, study harder and then come back to improve their grade and their prospects? Interesting.You don’t get this opportunity in many other walks of working life.....get it right first time, maybe learn by your mistakes and take that forward to the next job you do. But the idea of the exams is to learn to the best of your ability and show how you do on that instance!
There is too much option to learn the exam not the subject....and this doesn’t give you the understanding of the subject matter.....it just gets you a piece of paper that says you can pass an exam!
elster said:
The name is an irrelevance, but the ability to get marks on papers for answering question a 5 year old wouldn't have problems with is wrong.
At present the exam system doesn't educate, as you say, it teaches them to pass exams. They sit paper after paper after paper and practice questions, rather than teach the subject as a whole.
Where do you get the stuff that says a 5 year old could answer?At present the exam system doesn't educate, as you say, it teaches them to pass exams. They sit paper after paper after paper and practice questions, rather than teach the subject as a whole.
You parctice for all exams, always have, always will, if you don't you are an idiot
JontyR said:
There is too much option to learn the exam not the subject....and this doesn’t give you the understanding of the subject matter.....it just gets you a piece of paper that says you can pass an exam!
That's not going to change by scrapping a qualification. Not when plenty of people teaching the subjects came through the very same education system you're criticising. This is Gove's biggest problem, he might get as far as changing qualifications but thats the easy part, the hard part is getting good teachers and winning battles with the teaching unions.martin84 said:
elster said:
At present the exam system doesn't educate, as you say, it teaches them to pass exams. They sit paper after paper after paper and practice questions, rather than teach the subject as a whole.
Yeah because nobody who did O Levels ever sat mock tests or used practice papers to prepare did they? The text books now are currently weighted by with exam board produces them and questions very similar. The school I attended spent half a year going through past papers and past questions with mock exams. We were also taught all the way through school 'it is just as important to know how to answer the question as it is to know the subject'.
Do you really believe that rather than teaching people a subject it is better to teach people how to answer a question and the specific modules that will mate up to the questions by that specific exam board?
blueg33 said:
elster said:
The name is an irrelevance, but the ability to get marks on papers for answering question a 5 year old wouldn't have problems with is wrong.
At present the exam system doesn't educate, as you say, it teaches them to pass exams. They sit paper after paper after paper and practice questions, rather than teach the subject as a whole.
Where do you get the stuff that says a 5 year old could answer?At present the exam system doesn't educate, as you say, it teaches them to pass exams. They sit paper after paper after paper and practice questions, rather than teach the subject as a whole.
You parctice for all exams, always have, always will, if you don't you are an idiot
elster said:
Do you really believe that rather than teaching people a subject it is better to teach people how to answer a question and the specific modules that will mate up to the questions by that specific exam board?
Teachers, Schools and Headmasters are judged on their exam results. Ergo, teachers, schools and headmasters will focus all energies on their students passing tests.How do you propose we judge and evaluate teachers and their institutions if not by the basic numbers of how many of their students pass stuff?
It's not as simple as sitting here saying 'teach the subject not the exam' you need to say how you'd actually run the entire education system on that basis. If it was easy someone else would've already done it.
elster said:
At present the exam system doesn't educate, as you say, it teaches them to pass exams.
It becomes more of an issue when those who don't try A-Levels get out of college at 18 with their vocational qualifications. Very few of them are fit for purpose and the idea that you're getting a productive employee (that they often believe themselves to be) on day one is a dream, we've employed recent college leavers at the same time as people who have spent 8-10 years on handouts and there is no difference in work ethic, skill base or motivation in the majority of them. There are exceptions to every rule, but the majority of young people who are bright, articulate and motivated get through the education system, are focussed on their university pathway and would excel in any system that is imposed.
It isn't those at the top or bottom of the pile that need a system change, but the majority who need to be either pushed up or dumped with the detritus, these people are currently making up the annual grade improvements when in reality they should be having to work to keep up with the top 10%. I know that private education is seen by many as elitist, but the way that they prepare children for thinking rather than just passing exams is something that should be looked at closely as a way to improve standards.
But until we as a nation stop accepting mediocrity, stop making excuses for laziness, stop education establishments bending the rules to suit the 'needs' of children and start to develop a fit for purpose system (regardless of the exams) that rewards achievement, celebrates hard work and penalises those who don't pull their weight (perhaps via their parents) then we won't see any improvement in the overall quality of our workforce.
Chrisw666 said:
It becomes more of an issue when those who don't try A-Levels get out of college at 18 with their vocational qualifications. Very few of them are fit for purpose and the idea that you're getting a productive employee (that they often believe themselves to be) on day one is a dream
Well surely nobody expects a perfect employee at the age of 18 with no work experience. Schools haven't encouraged students to actually go to work for years, its all about heading to University. Personally I didn't fancy staying at school until I was 107.Chrisw666 said:
But until we as a nation stop accepting mediocrity, stop making excuses for laziness, stop education establishments bending the rules to suit the 'needs' of children and start to develop a fit for purpose system (regardless of the exams) that rewards achievement, celebrates hard work and penalises those who don't pull their weight (perhaps via their parents) then we won't see any improvement in the overall quality of our workforce.
Fair point. Now how do we do that?martin84 said:
Fair point. Now how do we do that?
Appoint a government with the spine to make wholesale changes and some very unpopular decisions, to remove league tables, re introduce grammar schools for those with a genuine academic talent and to allow other schools to formulate their own curriculum that meets the needs of their intake and local employment market. elster said:
You practice after you have finished teaching the subject, by focusing on the specific modules then you aren't educated on the subject. You have merely passed an exam. There needs to be a distinction between the two. After all we are now getting the best educated students ever in terms of exam results and yet the lowest education levels for decades by OECD levels.
I see what you mean, from what I can see with a son doing GCSE's at the moment, they are still taught the subject and only started doing practice papers just before the mocks in January. That is exactly the same as it was 20 years ago when I did my O levels.(for the record a 5 year old couldn't do this)
EdExcel 2011 Maths Question said:
On the grid, draw the graph of y = 4x − 2
Not hard granted, but I bet plenty of adults couldn't do that including those who did o levels 
Chrisw666 said:
Appoint a government with the spine to make wholesale changes and some very unpopular decisions, to remove league tables, re introduce grammar schools for those with a genuine academic talent and to allow other schools to formulate their own curriculum that meets the needs of their intake and local employment market.
Seeing as Labour will win the next election or - the best the Tories can hope for - it'll be another Con/Lib coalition, I don't think we're going to see that for a while.
turbobloke said:
crankedup said:
That bloody woman has some guilt to carry, 'no such thing as losers', selling off playing fields that reduced competition amongst kids. All part of the mindset that got hammered into so many kids back then.
What's reduced competition among kids? The lefty mindset of so many teachers hammered into kids over decades, coupled to the lack of planning by Labour over 13 years so that we now have a current and urgent need for hundreds of new schools with portakabins filling primary school playgrounds as temporary solutions. Playtime exercise? Medium term the country needs 2000 new Primary schools in the next 3 years and longer term 500 new Secondary schools in the next 10 years.More on the facile nature of GCSEs from an Independent source
here.http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2012/06/21/in-my-gc...
Having said all that I would not wish to see the Country going back to a three tier schooling system. Its a socially divisive package from the outset of a young persons developing mind. We perhaps may be better off by simply reviewing and regrading existing system?
marcosgt said:
Odd then, that the Tories scrapped them originally...
It won't make 'winners' and 'losers' it'll spilt into "Us" and "Them" meaning people 'fit' for 'O' levels will be deemed better from the age of 14 and brand those consigned to the lesser qualification stream as lesser at that stage.
The education system doesn't need more f
king about with, it needs stability so decent teachers can teach and give our children a useful education!!!!!
No-one wins with this constant meddling except politicians who get the 'quick win' of being seen to 'do something' about education.
The single GCSE qualification should measure all at 16 and those who are able will get good grades and those less so will get lower grades. Surely that's the best answer for all? Assess everyone at 16 (when they are looking at work or FE) by the SAME standard, not brand a late developer (or someone the teacher didn't like) as useless because they 'only' got a top grade 'CSE'?
M.
It felt spooky reading that. My thoughts exactly.It won't make 'winners' and 'losers' it'll spilt into "Us" and "Them" meaning people 'fit' for 'O' levels will be deemed better from the age of 14 and brand those consigned to the lesser qualification stream as lesser at that stage.
The education system doesn't need more f
king about with, it needs stability so decent teachers can teach and give our children a useful education!!!!!No-one wins with this constant meddling except politicians who get the 'quick win' of being seen to 'do something' about education.
The single GCSE qualification should measure all at 16 and those who are able will get good grades and those less so will get lower grades. Surely that's the best answer for all? Assess everyone at 16 (when they are looking at work or FE) by the SAME standard, not brand a late developer (or someone the teacher didn't like) as useless because they 'only' got a top grade 'CSE'?
M.
turbobloke said:
crankedup said:
Don't over concern yourselves over another half baked Tory policy idea, as usual Gove is seeking headlines in a vain attempt to place himself into the headlines.
At the moment it looks like it was a leftyleaks initiative, not Gove publicity seeking.crankedup said:
I want a Government to take forward policy ideas that are of the future, not hark back to failed policies of decades ago.
Sticking with devalued exams while decrying alternatives is a good idea? Traditional style O-levels are such a failure that international schools still use them and so does the independent sector here, which unlike the state sector is world class and hasn't plummeted in international comparisons since those 'failed policies' ho ho ho.crankedup said:
Thanks to Lib-Dems this Gove thing will be on the buffers.
As above - no thanks can be given to them at this stage as it appears to be a leak prior to consulting with the eight percenters. Even you will know that Lib Dems don't always determine policy - as per CMD telling Clegg about use of the EU veto after the fact.
An arranged Tory leak designed to bring Lib-Dems to the table for discussions.
Agree the Lib-Dems do have a less of a say on Policy making in Government, but most Policies will need the blessing of the Lib-Dems to have a chance of making it to the statute books. Were small as a Party, but still effective.
Its divisive, and certainly is not part of the Tory moto of being in it altogether. I want, as much as yourself and others, the best education for our kids, rushing along with old policies will not do until all other avenues have been properly investigated.
johnfm said:
crankedup said:
Don't over concern yourselves over another half baked Tory policy idea, as usual Gove is seeking headlines in a vain attempt to place himself into the headlines. I want a Government to take forward policy ideas that are of the future, not hark back to failed policies of decades ago. Thanks to Lib-Dems this Gove thing will be on the buffers.
Jeezus, your record is well and truly stuck, isn't it.I assume you post this crap on here because your friends and family have stopped listening...
eccles said:
turbobloke said:
crankedup said:
Don't over concern yourselves over another half baked Tory policy idea, as usual Gove is seeking headlines in a vain attempt to place himself into the headlines.
At the moment it looks like it was a leftyleaks initiative, not Gove publicity seeking.crankedup said:
I want a Government to take forward policy ideas that are of the future, not hark back to failed policies of decades ago.
Sticking with devalued exams while decrying alternatives is a good idea? Traditional style O-levels are such a failure that international schools still use them and so does the independent sector here, which unlike the state sector is world class and hasn't plummeted in international comparisons since those 'failed policies' ho ho ho.crankedup said:
Thanks to Lib-Dems this Gove thing will be on the buffers.
As above - no thanks can be given to them at this stage as it appears to be a leak prior to consulting with the eight percenters. Even you will know that Lib Dems don't always determine policy - as per CMD telling Clegg about use of the EU veto after the fact.
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