Treasury Minister thinks paying with cash is wrong
Discussion
Puggit said:
I just paid cash to my window cleaner (not 5 mins ago) - does that make me bad?
Did he give you a VAT invoice?If not, then in principle, you may be complicit in his tax evasion, yes.
With a window cleaner the sums are small but if a builder is laying a new patio and receiving £5000 in cash in a brown envelope without a VAT invoice, then this is quite serious tax evasion when it is multiplied across the country.
I suspect that if it were possible to assess ( which it probably isn't) the sums of tax not paid are probably huge.
But builders are salt-of-the-earth working class types and therefore one of us, not to be criticised, unlike these b
ds working in the city and paying tax on PAYE.. 
davepoth said:
martin84 said:
tts.
Got it in one there. The only time it's morally wrong to pay in cash is if the tradesman says "Pay me in cash so I don't have to put it through the books", and then you're fully aware what the situation is, and I imagine probably legally complicit in a tax fraud. Other than that there's no obligation on the buyer to make sure a business is managing their tax affairs appropriately. ts.ks. When you get a "discount for cash", you know full well that the discount is your small share of the VAT and income tax that the tradesman is avoiding.Adrian W said:
Puggit said:
I just paid cash to my window cleaner (not 5 mins ago) - does that make me bad?
Hmmm, Iv'e had the same window cleaner for about ten years, always cash (next door pay him and I pay them) never even considered if he pays tax.As I have said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a trader receiving his income in the form of cash. It's neither immoral nor illegal UNLESS he decides not to return that income.
Eric Mc said:
Adrian W said:
Eric Mc said:
Adrian W said:
But I thought his comments were about morals, sorry BP,Vodaphone and the banks might be legal but they certainly arn't moral
Paying cash to a trader per se is neither immoral nor illegal. It's what the trader does with the cash that causes the problem.If the customer is COLLUDING with the trader to defraud - that is both ILLEGAL AND immoral.
Hiding and suppressing cash sales is illegal - end of story.
Why do we always miss the point that, were tax rates not seen to be so punitive and were we to have a Government which did not waste so much as they all do, (I know, wishful thinking) that people at both ends of the spectrum, in the main, would not seek to evade tax?
Eric Mc said:
And it's not your responsibility to do so.
As I have said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a trader receiving his income in the form of cash. It's neither immoral nor illegal UNLESS he decides not to return that income.
I always get my butler to pay the tradesmen. I thought everyone on PH does the same?As I have said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a trader receiving his income in the form of cash. It's neither immoral nor illegal UNLESS he decides not to return that income.
Zod said:
davepoth said:
martin84 said:
tts.
Got it in one there. The only time it's morally wrong to pay in cash is if the tradesman says "Pay me in cash so I don't have to put it through the books", and then you're fully aware what the situation is, and I imagine probably legally complicit in a tax fraud. Other than that there's no obligation on the buyer to make sure a business is managing their tax affairs appropriately. ts.ks. When you get a "discount for cash", you know full well that the discount is your small share of the VAT and income tax that the tradesman is avoiding.I will never query why a trader wants a cash payment. Of course, if he stupidly says it's so he can fiddle his records then I will stop using him straight away.
Adrian W said:
Puggit said:
I just paid cash to my window cleaner (not 5 mins ago) - does that make me bad?
Hmmm, Iv'e had the same window cleaner for about ten years, always cash (next door pay him and I pay them) never even considered if he pays tax."All windows cleaned for £30, but if you pay cash and don't expect a receipt I can do it for £25".
DSM2 said:
But Eric, you also must know that none of the "aggressive, marginal, high risk schemes" are ever actually 'legal' until they are declared so, and it is only then that they become tax avoidance schemes and not tax evasion.
Nope - wrong.If a marginal scheme is deemed to be illegal, it will also be deemed to have been illegal from day one of the scheme and HMRC will go back to the begining of the scheme to recover the underpaid tax - with penalties and interest.
In other words, the law will say that the scheme was ALWAYS illegal - right from the start.
That is why Jimmy Carr is probably a worried man at the moment.
The fact that HMRC have ben woefully inadequate in policing these schemes is a whole different topic.
Zod said:
Eric, you are being self-servingly precious. You know full well why he is offering the discount for cash.
No, I don't "know".I might have an idea - but I can't know uinless the person tells me or I find out through investigation.
Many shops offer cash discounts. Does that mean they are engaged in tax and VAT evasion?
oyster said:
Adrian W said:
Puggit said:
I just paid cash to my window cleaner (not 5 mins ago) - does that make me bad?
Hmmm, Iv'e had the same window cleaner for about ten years, always cash (next door pay him and I pay them) never even considered if he pays tax."All windows cleaned for £30, but if you pay cash and don't expect a receipt I can do it for £25".
oyster said:
Adrian W said:
Puggit said:
I just paid cash to my window cleaner (not 5 mins ago) - does that make me bad?
Hmmm, Iv'e had the same window cleaner for about ten years, always cash (next door pay him and I pay them) never even considered if he pays tax."All windows cleaned for £30, but if you pay cash and don't expect a receipt I can do it for £25".
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