Peugeot-Citroen agrees deal with GM to buy Vauxhall-Opel
Discussion
I would have thought that regardless of PSA buying Vauxhall/Opel that the writing would still be on the wall for those two brands and ultimately their workforce. The parent company is broke and they produce volume products at a loss that nobody is prepared to pay a premium for.
It would be better for PSA to have some funky design up their sleeves that they need all of the factories that are now on their books to meet demand, but they'll end upbuilding them in France.
It would be better for PSA to have some funky design up their sleeves that they need all of the factories that are now on their books to meet demand, but they'll end upbuilding them in France.
bobo79 said:
Dale487 said:
So what is the British built alternative to my Leon FR 150TSI estate?
I guess it's the Honda Civic Tourer.Hell, that's probably the richest market segment for anybody looking for British-built choices.
Dale487 said:
In my opinion if we lose manufacturing of the cars from the UK, the goodwill that we as British public have towards Vauxhall will disappear (as will sales). And I guess police fleet sales too.
TooMany2cvs said:
Or an Astra estate. Or an Auris estate. Or a Qashqai or a Juke.
Hell, that's probably the richest market segment for anybody looking for British-built choices.
Correct on Astra (for now) and Auris. Qashqai or Juke aren't the same type of car though.Hell, that's probably the richest market segment for anybody looking for British-built choices.
Anyway, I'd much rather have a Leon than any of those, not that that's to do with the country they are manufactured in.
bobo79 said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Or an Astra estate. Or an Auris estate. Or a Qashqai or a Juke.
Hell, that's probably the richest market segment for anybody looking for British-built choices.
Correct on Astra (for now) and Auris. Qashqai or Juke aren't the same type of car though.Hell, that's probably the richest market segment for anybody looking for British-built choices.
PurpleTurtle said:
I can't understand why anyone would want to buy a Vauxhall of any sort. Over the last 20 years I've classed the brand as:
Corsas driven by Chavs
Astras driven by Coppers
Zafiras driven by dowdy Mums who never lost their baby weight, or their angry, put-upon husbands
Exactly this. The Opel brand at least suggests a certain Teutonic solidity whereas Vauxhall conjures up all the stereotypes you mention. That's not to say that Vauhxhall hasn't churned out a few decent motors in the past but the list is depressingly short - Manta, Astra GTE, Lotus Carlton, erm....Corsas driven by Chavs
Astras driven by Coppers
Zafiras driven by dowdy Mums who never lost their baby weight, or their angry, put-upon husbands
PSA have their own problems too. It's about 25 years since I last lusted after a Pug (306 GTI-6), and although the DS stuff seems to be quite good fun, it's hard to see how all these brands can fit together. Even the mighty VAG has threatened to chop SEAT on more than one occasion as it's neither really fish nor fowl against Skoda and VW.
Interesting times ahead but I just can't see both Vauxhall and Opel surviving beyond the lifespan of the current platforms.
bennyboydurham said:
Exactly this. The Opel brand at least suggests a certain Teutonic solidity whereas Vauxhall conjures up all the stereotypes you mention. That's not to say that Vauhxhall hasn't churned out a few decent motors in the past but the list is depressingly short - Manta, Astra GTE, Lotus Carlton, erm...
Interesting times ahead but I just can't see both Vauxhall and Opel surviving beyond the lifespan of the current platforms.
But Vauxhall is just a UK-market namechange. No more than that. Are you suggesting that PSA would stop selling the Opel range completely in the UK, or that they'd go through all the rebranding to change them to Opels?Interesting times ahead but I just can't see both Vauxhall and Opel surviving beyond the lifespan of the current platforms.
All three of the specific "Vauxhall churned out a few decent motors" you named were Opel-developed cars, with a lot of one of them farmed out to Lotus. One of them only had a VERY short stint with a Vauxhall badge, and was mostly sold as an Opel in the UK.
One piece of this puzzle which we've yet to understand is what restrictions have been placed on the deal. Technically both the Insignia and Mokka could be put on sale in the US pretty much straight away if the deal allows it, with similar access to Australia too. If there's no restraint in the deal then PSA could have some good markets to develop into.
bennyboydurham said:
PurpleTurtle said:
I can't understand why anyone would want to buy a Vauxhall of any sort. Over the last 20 years I've classed the brand as:
Corsas driven by Chavs
Astras driven by Coppers
Zafiras driven by dowdy Mums who never lost their baby weight, or their angry, put-upon husbands
Exactly this. The Opel brand at least suggests a certain Teutonic solidity whereas Vauxhall conjures up all the stereotypes you mention. That's not to say that Vauhxhall hasn't churned out a few decent motors in the past but the list is depressingly short - Manta, Astra GTE, Lotus Carlton, erm....Corsas driven by Chavs
Astras driven by Coppers
Zafiras driven by dowdy Mums who never lost their baby weight, or their angry, put-upon husbands
Granted, the boggo models are nothing to get excited about, but then is a 1.4 Golf ? a 1.6 Focus ? how about a 1 litre Aygo ?
The notion that chavs or housewives all flock to a Vauxhall dealer to get a new car and never frequent the dealerships of other manufacturers is a bit silly.
The irony is I thnik Vauxhall will probably end up being the junk that people here often claim they already are. Lets be honest, PSA castoffs isn't going to be a great place to start building a car..
Well its on the wall, ford pulled out production of cars and moved it to eastern europe, sadly Pug are going to do the same and will happen a lot quicker than what we think. They have always looked at ways of increasing market share, one way was to make cars that folks would aspire to own, but that would be silly.... so its an easier option buy out the competition and close them down. reduce the availability of different cars and you will naturally increase your market share.
as we speak about this Pug are looking at how to cost effectively close down production, as well as reduce the amount of dealers on the network.
Its good bye Ellesmere and Luton.
just look at what GM did to saab... and they way that they have peddled crap over the years. always a step behind ford. just give them the bare minimum and make as much profit they can.
as we speak about this Pug are looking at how to cost effectively close down production, as well as reduce the amount of dealers on the network.
Its good bye Ellesmere and Luton.
just look at what GM did to saab... and they way that they have peddled crap over the years. always a step behind ford. just give them the bare minimum and make as much profit they can.
davepoth said:
One piece of this puzzle which we've yet to understand is what restrictions have been placed on the deal. Technically both the Insignia and Mokka could be put on sale in the US pretty much straight away if the deal allows it, with similar access to Australia too. If there's no restraint in the deal then PSA could have some good markets to develop into.
the Insignia already is, look up the Buick Regal. I would assume GM will either can the platform or license from Opel ?The next model is Insignia based too: http://www.caranddriver.com/news/the-2018-buick-re...
Vaud said:
Who says they want the brand for the uk?
Opel in NA and China as alternate German brand to VW/Audi?
Buick Regal is sold in China as I understand it.Opel in NA and China as alternate German brand to VW/Audi?
GM used to sell Opels under the Saturn brand in NA, it got canned.
Crafty_ said:
davepoth said:
One piece of this puzzle which we've yet to understand is what restrictions have been placed on the deal. Technically both the Insignia and Mokka could be put on sale in the US pretty much straight away if the deal allows it, with similar access to Australia too. If there's no restraint in the deal then PSA could have some good markets to develop into.
the Insignia already is, look up the Buick Regal. I would assume GM will either can the platform or license from Opel ?The next model is Insignia based too: http://www.caranddriver.com/news/the-2018-buick-re...
ash73 said:
Trump protectionism starting to bite, and Brexit currency fluctuation gives GM the catalyst to pull the plug. But the political discussion on here focuses on what the Frenchies are up to; so it's not the fault of Brexit after all.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/br...
That article is so badly written & subbed it would embarrass the Daily Mail. Lots of words missing.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/br...
I wouldn't be surprised if it goes the way of Talbot Motors years ago. Also Peugeot used to manufacture cars in the UK and closed down the factory in the 90's.
Jonesy23 said:
Pretty much this.
The existing product will see out its life with a continuity agreement then be retired.
At this point you might see some badge engineering but I'm not sure PSA will bother as they have their own established brands.
As and when they identify overcapacity the axe is likely to fall in certain areas as they'll be the ones with the significant refit/conversion costs. Plus the nature and ownership of PSA steers them to protecting some parts of the business at the expense of others.
Maybe it wont go that way but I see Vauxhall/Opel having even less life left in it in the future than Holden does.
The existing product will see out its life with a continuity agreement then be retired.
At this point you might see some badge engineering but I'm not sure PSA will bother as they have their own established brands.
As and when they identify overcapacity the axe is likely to fall in certain areas as they'll be the ones with the significant refit/conversion costs. Plus the nature and ownership of PSA steers them to protecting some parts of the business at the expense of others.
Maybe it wont go that way but I see Vauxhall/Opel having even less life left in it in the future than Holden does.
skwdenyer said:
Be careful how you measure profit. During the Saab saga (which IIRC was part of GM worldwide and not GM Europe) it was clear that Saab was saddled with a lot of costs not related to Saab cars...
It has been politically expedient for GM (US) to be profitable if possible for the last few years post bail-out. Being "dragged down" by European subsidiaries has been a convenient spin.
My best guess: GM has done as much soaking-up of costs in Europe as it can, and lacks the cash to invest in new platforms.
True, cost allocations, management charges and so on are a kind of arbitrary management bullsIt has been politically expedient for GM (US) to be profitable if possible for the last few years post bail-out. Being "dragged down" by European subsidiaries has been a convenient spin.
My best guess: GM has done as much soaking-up of costs in Europe as it can, and lacks the cash to invest in new platforms.
te that are imposed centrally and can turn a profitable business into a loss maker.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff