Another 'first black ...' story
Discussion
Fittster said:
This seem a strange area to focus on, there are white MOBO winners. In your opinion are music awards as important as running PLCs (or the numerous other areas I could name with lower representation)?
Should we give up on parts of society because 'Those types will never amount to anything, look at their track record'?
Live and Learn - I didn't know any white person had ever won a MOBO. Should we give up on parts of society because 'Those types will never amount to anything, look at their track record'?
No, music awards are worthless to me. But then running a PLC can be as well. Success to me is being happy and healthy, not winning an award nor earning a million pounds a year.
Who says anything about giving up? All I suggest is that we operate a meritocracy. No more, no less. If you are the best person for the job then you get it. End of. Suggesting "they will never amount to anything" is also trite, we are discussing those who are successful but querying the necessity of identifying that they are black, white, orange, green or blue... I believe that belittles their achievement.
He sounds like a remarkable man who brings experience wider than most, which for a company like Prudential will be worth it's weight in gold.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7954550.stm
His colour is irrelevant, TBH.
turbobloke said:
Fittster said:
turbobloke said:
We make the most of human capital by allowing the best to succeed, not by favouritism under a politically correct name.
Making the most of human capital isn't a winner takes all activity, it's about trying to ensure everyone achieves their potential.Away from employment and back to the law, which is way too far down the wrong path already. The Met writes about 'any incident which includes an allegation of racial motivation by any person. This is a far more inclusive criterion for what is investigated as a hate incident than the criteria used by most other police forces around the world.'
Click
This is basically political interference of the politically correct kind, i.e. nonsense, it does the police no favours and does society a disservice. Similar intereference in employment processes is self-defeating in the same way.
How is holding up a positive role model politically correct? The idea that any attempt to try and improve the education and career aspirations of young black men is somehow unfair on white is absurd.
Trying to improve the academic achievements of the black community is to be encouraged not shied away from because it might mean less jobs available for whites.
Jasandjules said:
Fittster said:
This seem a strange area to focus on, there are white MOBO winners. In your opinion are music awards as important as running PLCs (or the numerous other areas I could name with lower representation)?
Should we give up on parts of society because 'Those types will never amount to anything, look at their track record'?
Live and Learn - I didn't know any white person had ever won a MOBO. Should we give up on parts of society because 'Those types will never amount to anything, look at their track record'?
No, music awards are worthless to me. But then running a PLC can be as well. Success to me is being happy and healthy, not winning an award nor earning a million pounds a year.
Who says anything about giving up? All I suggest is that we operate a meritocracy. No more, no less. If you are the best person for the job then you get it. End of. Suggesting "they will never amount to anything" is also trite, we are discussing those who are successful but querying the necessity of identifying that they are black, white, orange, green or blue... I believe that belittles their achievement.
So if statistics show that certain ethnic groups under perform in education we should ignore them as it belittles the achievements of those who have succeeded?
Fittster said:
So why do such a small percentage of the black community succeed in education and the workplace?
Why do such a small percentage of the white community succeed in education and the workplace? 60 million people in the country but not that many running FTSE companies...
As for no place at Oxbridge etc. my parents could not afford for me to go to University. So I went out to work, then I worked my bo***ks off, then I did ok, and then I could afford to take a few years out and go to Uni. So don't give me that poor hard done by s**t. I come from one of the roughest council estates in Essex. A place the police did not enter (except once when there was yet another rape, and they came in groups of 6 to go door to door, but only within about 50 yards of the exit of the maze...........). If you have determination you can do ok for yourself.
Parrot of Doom said:
tinman0 said:
Parrot of Doom said:
Merc fan said:
The only unrepresented demographic these days is the white male.
No it isn't.You want to see white males being discriminated against - try getting on a council housing list.
Bushmaster said:
Fittster said:
We can play that game all night. The question is how do we make the most of the human capital in the black community.
If we're playing that game then, firstly let's define some terms. Start with the 'black community'. Define that please.
Fittster said:
Bushmaster said:
Fittster said:
We can play that game all night. The question is how do we make the most of the human capital in the black community.
If we're playing that game then, firstly let's define some terms. Start with the 'black community'. Define that please.
Fittster said:
Bushmaster said:
Fittster said:
We can play that game all night. The question is how do we make the most of the human capital in the black community.
If we're playing that game then, firstly let's define some terms. Start with the 'black community'. Define that please.
Right then, 'community':
From the Concise Oxford:
1. all the people living in a specific locality
a specific locality including its inhabitants
2. a body of people having a religion or profession in common (the Muslim community?)
3. fellowship of interests; similarity (the naked wrestling community?)
4. body practicing common ownership (the hippy commune community?)
5. joint ownership or liability (the community bike?)
6. the public (the community centre?)
7. a body of nations (the european economic community?)
8. group of animals or plants living together in the same area
NONE of these definitions can be usefully appled to the 'Black Community'. The phrase 'black community' is perjorative in that its implication is that 'people whose skin colour is black' are all part of the same group (!), and that therefore a black person by definition has more in common with any another black person than with any white person. Utter codswallop. There can be much greater racial differences between different black people than there are between say a black and a white person. The phrase 'Black Community' implies that the president of the USA has more in common with a Central African Pygmy than he does with his white family!
There is no such thing as a 'Black Community', there are only individuals who happen to have some (but by no means all) racial features in common.
Edited by Bushmaster on Friday 20th March 23:03
Fittster said:
Problem is it doesn't help us understand why an individual is failing - why can't we have a breakdown according to number of parents, qualifications of parents, socio-economic group, etc. ?
Also note that the 'black community' have overtaken the 'bangaldeshi community' .. so perhaps they've had enough help, and it's time for some new political/pressure groups to be set up [said in sarcasm].
Edited by fido on Saturday 21st March 00:05
tinman0 said:
Fittster said:
Bushmaster said:
Fittster said:
We can play that game all night. The question is how do we make the most of the human capital in the black community.
If we're playing that game then, firstly let's define some terms. Start with the 'black community'. Define that please.
t really. But a worthy comment never the less.Bushmaster said:
Fittster said:
Bushmaster said:
Fittster said:
We can play that game all night. The question is how do we make the most of the human capital in the black community.
If we're playing that game then, firstly let's define some terms. Start with the 'black community'. Define that please.
Right then, 'community':
From the Concise Oxford:
1. all the people living in a specific locality
a specific locality including its inhabitants
2. a body of people having a religion or profession in common (the Muslim community?)
3. fellowship of interests; similarity (the naked wrestling community?)
4. body practicing common ownership (the hippy commune community?)
5. joint ownership or liability (the community bike?)
6. the public (the community centre?)
7. a body of nations (the european economic community?)
8. group of animals or plants living together in the same area
NONE of these definitions can be usefully appled to the 'Black Community'. The phrase 'black community' is perjorative in that its implication is that 'people whose skin colour is black' are all part of the same group (!), and that therefore a black person by definition has more in common with any another black person than with any white person. Utter codswallop. There can be much greater racial differences between different black people than there are between say a black and a white person. The phrase 'Black Community' implies that the president of the USA has more in common with a Central African Pygmy than he does with his white family!
There is no such thing as a 'Black Community', there are only individuals who happen to have some (but by no means all) racial features in common.
Edited by Bushmaster on Friday 20th March 23:03
Do you think all the studies that have been done into educational achievements of various groups are wrong?
Fittster said:
Do you think all the studies that have been done into educational achievements of various groups are wrong?
Yes, essentially. If a study shows that on average black English children do less well at school than white English children, what does this this mean for little Jennifer, a black nine year old at a top primary school in Edgbaston?Not a lot.
Bushmaster said:
Fittster said:
Do you think all the studies that have been done into educational achievements of various groups are wrong?
Yes, essentially. If a study shows that on average black English children do less well at school than white English children, what does this this mean for little Jennifer, a black nine year old at a top primary school in Edgbaston?Not a lot.
This doesn't mean of course that there are no high achieving pupils from those ethnic groups, but on average they fare much less well than other students. The causes are complex, but mostly cultural, and have been recognised as such by leading black and pakistani educators and community leaders also.
Fittster said:
turbobloke said:
Fittster said:
turbobloke said:
We make the most of human capital by allowing the best to succeed, not by favouritism under a politically correct name.
Making the most of human capital isn't a winner takes all activity, it's about trying to ensure everyone achieves their potential.Away from employment and back to the law, which is way too far down the wrong path already. The Met writes about 'any incident which includes an allegation of racial motivation by any person. This is a far more inclusive criterion for what is investigated as a hate incident than the criteria used by most other police forces around the world.'
Click
This is basically political interference of the politically correct kind, i.e. nonsense, it does the police no favours and does society a disservice. Similar intereference in employment processes is self-defeating in the same way.
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