Scotland Helicopter Crash
Discussion
amancalledrob said:
If it ran out of fuel would the pilot not have been able to auto rotate? It's a really weird one, isn't it?
I'm not a helicopter pilot, but I believe auto-rotation converts forward momentum into lift if they lose power. That's one of the reasons helicopter pilots like to build up airspeed close to the ground for a bit, rather than going straight up.It's likely that the police helo was pretty much stationary, so it would have lacked any forward airspeed to help it auto-rotate down in a 'softer; and more controlled manor.
I'm sure the pilot did all he could under the circumstances.
Beati Dogu said:
I'm not a helicopter pilot, but I believe auto-rotation converts forward momentum into lift if they lose power. That's one of the reasons helicopter pilots like to build up airspeed close to the ground for a bit, rather than going straight up.
It's likely that the police helo was pretty much stationary, so it would have lacked any forward airspeed to help it auto-rotate down in a 'softer; and more controlled manor.
Downward momentum will do, it's hovering at low altitude that limits the options. This helicopter appears to have been going back to base so not hovering and the pilot would tend to keep to sensible forward speed/altitude combinations unless some other problem arose.It's likely that the police helo was pretty much stationary, so it would have lacked any forward airspeed to help it auto-rotate down in a 'softer; and more controlled manor.
tenohfive said:
Dr Jekyll said:
It was basically 'don't fly any EC135 until it's fuel sensors have been checked'.
Where's that from? Not the BBC as unless I'm missing something they've only referred to Bond grounding their aircraft - not others in use by other organisations.Beati Dogu said:
It's likely that the police helo was pretty much stationary, so it would have lacked any forward airspeed to help it auto-rotate down in a 'softer; and more controlled manor.
Already covered at trolltastic length earlier in the thread. They were transiting back to base when the incident occurred.odyssey2200 said:
Does the fuel system draw fuel from all the tanks at the same time of does fuel get pumped from one tank to the other?
Would a faulty sensor stop the available fuel being transferred to where it needed to be?
I must point out that my helicopter flight hours are somewhat limited. To 1.
speaking to my father earlier tonight (ex aircraft engineer) he reckons there is a main tank,and two seperate tanks feeding each engine.fuel is constantly pumped from main tank to both seperate tanks ,both tanks same size,but one has a plastic type block inside to reduce capacity,ensuring final low fuel warning results in one engine cutting out giving sufficient warning of imminent need to land,there is a return system to main tank (weir chamber ?) for excess fuel pumped to seperate tanks,so i do not see the need for much in the way of complex shut off/directional valves ,and as explained by the guys that know their stuff on the thread,fuel starvation would not cause the rotors to slow as much as appears in this case.Would a faulty sensor stop the available fuel being transferred to where it needed to be?
I must point out that my helicopter flight hours are somewhat limited. To 1.
as an aside,just went through entire thread and watched the air display video posted.fantastic flying by the chinook pilot. blessed with natural ability,and very likely to have been able to avoid the accident if it had been at all possible.
my condolences for your loss crossflow kid.
Some family's of the dead seek compensation.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west...
"Lawyers representing some of those affected by the Glasgow helicopter crash have begun legal action against the aircraft's operator.
Ten people died when the Police Scotland helicopter crashed into the roof of the Clutha pub on 29 November last year.
Legal firm Irwin Mitchell has sent a letter of claim to the legal representatives of Bond Aviation Group."
As far as I'm aware investigations are still ongoing.
Irwin Mitchell. Aren't they a "no win no fee" ambulance chasers type outfit?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west...
"Lawyers representing some of those affected by the Glasgow helicopter crash have begun legal action against the aircraft's operator.
Ten people died when the Police Scotland helicopter crashed into the roof of the Clutha pub on 29 November last year.
Legal firm Irwin Mitchell has sent a letter of claim to the legal representatives of Bond Aviation Group."
As far as I'm aware investigations are still ongoing.
Irwin Mitchell. Aren't they a "no win no fee" ambulance chasers type outfit?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11461502
But these are American servicemen in an American aircraft so their own local rules are likely to apply,
"The Feres doctrine essentially prohibits US service members from claiming compensation or damages from the United States Government for those personal injuries experienced in the performance of their duties as military personnel. The doctrine also extends to families of service members from filing a number of claims, in particular, wrongful death or loss of consortium actions."
http://www.brockovich.com/projects/military/
But these are American servicemen in an American aircraft so their own local rules are likely to apply,
"The Feres doctrine essentially prohibits US service members from claiming compensation or damages from the United States Government for those personal injuries experienced in the performance of their duties as military personnel. The doctrine also extends to families of service members from filing a number of claims, in particular, wrongful death or loss of consortium actions."
http://www.brockovich.com/projects/military/
GTIR said:
Some family's of the dead seek compensation.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west...
"Lawyers representing some of those affected by the Glasgow helicopter crash have begun legal action against the aircraft's operator.
Ten people died when the Police Scotland helicopter crashed into the roof of the Clutha pub on 29 November last year.
Legal firm Irwin Mitchell has sent a letter of claim to the legal representatives of Bond Aviation Group."
As far as I'm aware investigations are still ongoing.
Irwin Mitchell. Aren't they a "no win no fee" ambulance chasers type outfit?
There's nothing like a nice bit of compo to ease the loss of a loved one. In fact, why not kill a few more of your family and help pay for that nice relaxing beach holiday you've always promised yourself.............http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west...
"Lawyers representing some of those affected by the Glasgow helicopter crash have begun legal action against the aircraft's operator.
Ten people died when the Police Scotland helicopter crashed into the roof of the Clutha pub on 29 November last year.
Legal firm Irwin Mitchell has sent a letter of claim to the legal representatives of Bond Aviation Group."
As far as I'm aware investigations are still ongoing.
Irwin Mitchell. Aren't they a "no win no fee" ambulance chasers type outfit?
If anyone did that to me, i'd bl**dy come back and haunt them!
Max_Torque said:
There's nothing like a nice bit of compo to ease the loss of a loved one. In fact, why not kill a few more of your family and help pay for that nice relaxing beach holiday you've always promised yourself.............
If anyone did that to me, i'd bl**dy come back and haunt them!
Lost for words..............If anyone did that to me, i'd bl**dy come back and haunt them!
Just to interject a moment - the operators would have carried insurance, yes? Is it not therefore a fairly routine thing for the bereaved families to establish a claim?
I don't like the principle of it either, but if the person you lost was the breadwinner, and you need to ensure you keep a roof over your head and that of your dependents, then it's understandable, surely?
I don't like the principle of it either, but if the person you lost was the breadwinner, and you need to ensure you keep a roof over your head and that of your dependents, then it's understandable, surely?
Hang on. If this is from families who've lost loved ones who may be careers and breadwinners, who've lost their lives through no fault of their own, what exactly is the problem? This is precisely the scenario that compensation is genuinely due, surely?
Not sure what the issue is here. The operator is likely to be responsible for the incident in both law and also from a moral perspective, surely ? Who else is responsible, the chaps having a pint in the pub? Pub owners for not having a reinforced roof?
Not sure what the issue is here. The operator is likely to be responsible for the incident in both law and also from a moral perspective, surely ? Who else is responsible, the chaps having a pint in the pub? Pub owners for not having a reinforced roof?
s3fella said:
Hang on. If this is from families who've lost loved ones who may be careers and breadwinners, who've lost their lives through no fault of their own, what exactly is the problem? This is precisely the scenario that compensation is genuinely due, surely?
Not sure what the issue is here. The operator is likely to be responsible for the incident in both law and also from a moral perspective, surely ? Who else is responsible, the chaps having a pint in the pub? Pub owners for not having a reinforced roof?
You crash in your leased ford and someone is hurt. Are ford responsible?Not sure what the issue is here. The operator is likely to be responsible for the incident in both law and also from a moral perspective, surely ? Who else is responsible, the chaps having a pint in the pub? Pub owners for not having a reinforced roof?
5hero said:
s3fella said:
Hang on. If this is from families who've lost loved ones who may be careers and breadwinners, who've lost their lives through no fault of their own, what exactly is the problem? This is precisely the scenario that compensation is genuinely due, surely?
Not sure what the issue is here. The operator is likely to be responsible for the incident in both law and also from a moral perspective, surely ? Who else is responsible, the chaps having a pint in the pub? Pub owners for not having a reinforced roof?
You crash in your leased ford and someone is hurt. Are ford responsible?Not sure what the issue is here. The operator is likely to be responsible for the incident in both law and also from a moral perspective, surely ? Who else is responsible, the chaps having a pint in the pub? Pub owners for not having a reinforced roof?
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