Israeli

[Slaav]

Is pedantry taking over the Asylum again? My earlier post suggested a way that this in depth argument about who is and how is not a terrorist could be averted! Oh well....



ps - To be honest, I am still reading it all which probably says more about me than the current argument about 'terrorism' (including all links and 2nd tier links also if that makes sense?)

[TheRealFingers99]

Slaav said:

Is pedantry taking over the Asylum again? My earlier post suggested a way that this in depth argument about who is and how is not a terrorist could be averted! Oh well....



ps - To be honest, I am still reading it all which probably says more about me than the current argument about 'terrorism' (including all links and 2nd tier links also if that makes sense?)

Pedantry -- maybe. I'd say that the state of the state of Israel (virtuous defender of the oppressed or oppressor) is pretty much at the heart of the issue.

For sure, the multi-quotes (and the difficulty of doing them in this forum) get confusing.

[Grumfutock]

Slaav said:

Is pedantry taking over the Asylum again? My earlier post suggested a way that this in depth argument about who is and how is not a terrorist could be averted! Oh well....



ps - To be honest, I am still reading it all which probably says more about me than the current argument about 'terrorism' (including all links and 2nd tier links also if that makes sense?)

Pedantry? I would say people swapping from one end of the spectrum of an argument to the other is the real issue here. The UN say this but oh no, hang on, the UN doesn't say this because they cant upset the yanks, no hang on, lets me change again and not actually care what the UN say even though I quoted about 50 resolutions!

Be warned as well this will degenerate in to a slagging match. Despite asking for civility and trying to remain above it I have received endless provocation and juvenile name calling and by idiots with. I have even tried ignoring people to r4educe it but sadly that has just resulted in even more idiotic and retarded provocation by some very childish people. So to be honest I am now at the point of ceasing to care and if the thread gets closed down because of it then so be it. Sadly it appears to be the way some internet trolls and key board warriors operate on PH.

Edited by Grumfutock on Tuesday 9th September 18:26

[supersingle]

Lost soul said:

Here is an example of Israel's problem

http://unitedwithisrael.org/pa-israeli-palestinian...

So Fatah calls Israel the 'Zionist enemy'? I always thought they were the 'Zionist entity'. It's good to know the latest PC lingo being used by Israel's 'peace partners'.

As for Arab and Jewish children playing football together? Anything that threatens to undo Arab propaganda of their youth obviously cannot be allowed to continue. Seeing the other side as human threatens the powerbase of the terrorists. According to official PA TV, the Jews are apes and swine. Those Arab kids must have been jolly surprised when they turned up to the football match.

[Grumfutock]

Mrr T said:

This is going to be a very pointless argument since any web search shows there is NO definitive definition of terrorism.

In terms of Gaza I do not regard Hamas actions against Israel as terrorism, they are act of war by the Government of Gaza. As such any action by Israel in Gaza within the conventions covering the conduct of war cannot be terrorism in my view.

Small point but Hamas are not a recognised a government so how can it be an act of war?

[TheRealFingers99]

Grumfutock said:

Sadly it appears to be the way some internet trolls and key board warriors operate on PH.

And it appears that Grumfutock will call anyone a troll in the end. It is, to him, it would appear, the ultimate deterrent. Much better than a submarine capable of carrying nuclear cruise missiles.

He'll spice it up from time to time by ascribing views to his opponents which they have never held.

He will, however, avoid answering a straight question even if you stick it down his trousers.

TheRealFingers99 said:

Now, per piacere, answer the question(s):

Is detonating a listening device and causing civilian deaths a terrorist act? (Why detonate the device in the first place?)

Are targeted assassinations carried out outside of a war zone terrorist acts?

Are the assassination of UN delegates terrorist acts?

Are these terrorist acts (if such they are) sponsored by a state or proto state?

Logically, if they are, then that state must be a terrorist state.

[TheRealFingers99]

supersingle said:

Lost soul said:

Here is an example of Israel's problem

http://unitedwithisrael.org/pa-israeli-palestinian...

So Fatah calls Israel the 'Zionist enemy'? I always thought they were the 'Zionist entity'. It's good to know the latest PC lingo being used by Israel's 'peace partners'.

As for Arab and Jewish children playing football together? Anything that threatens to undo Arab propaganda of their youth obviously cannot be allowed to continue. Seeing the other side as human threatens the powerbase of the terrorists. According to official PA TV, the Jews are apes and swine. Those Arab kids must have been jolly surprised when they turned up to the football match.

And the Palestinians are beasts with legs?

However that turned out, the Israelis were going to make political capital out of it. It bears some comparison with the Nazi films of happy concentration camps.

The context is 418 children killed in the recent Gaza conflict. Children killed on a weekly basis in settler violence, clashes with the IDF and police and, further back:



Add a million plus Palestinians in refugee camps, thousands "just" homeless in Gaza.

There have been encounters organised by various organisations to bring Israeli and Palestinian kids into contact. But it's easy enough to see why some -- wrongly in my view -- are opposed to it.

[allnighter]

Grumfutock said:

Slaav said:

Is pedantry taking over the Asylum again? My earlier post suggested a way that this in depth argument about who is and how is not a terrorist could be averted! Oh well....



ps - To be honest, I am still reading it all which probably says more about me than the current argument about 'terrorism' (including all links and 2nd tier links also if that makes sense?)

Pedantry? I would say people swapping from one end of the spectrum of an argument to the other is the real issue here. The UN say this but oh no, hang on, the UN doesn't say this because they cant upset the yanks, no hang on, lets me change again and not actually care what the UN say even though I quoted about 50 resolutions!

Be warned as well this will degenerate in to a slagging match. Despite asking for civility and trying to remain above it I have received endless provocation and juvenile name calling and by idiots with. I have even tried ignoring people to r4educe it but sadly that has just resulted in even more idiotic and retarded provocation by some very childish people. So to be honest I am now at the point of ceasing to care and if the thread gets closed down because of it then so be it. Sadly it appears to be the way some internet trolls and key board warriors operate on PH.

Edited by Grumfutock on Tuesday 9th September 18:26

Once again you need to be reminded that this thread is not about you, so could you jack in the delusion that the whole debate is about you personally. You use sarcasm a lot in a form of indirect digs at people you disagree with then when they try to correct your misconceptions, you get arsey and pretend you are the innocent harmless angel and everybody else is a keyboard warrior and a troll? Now you threaten us with a virtual WMD and you dont care if this thread gets closed down? Get real, grow up and remove your head from the deep canal it's shoved in. Your insecurities do not interest us. Stick to the topic being discussed and try not to divert the thread further! It's tiresome.

[Grumfutock]

TheRealFingers99 said:

And it appears that Grumfutock will call anyone a troll in the end. It is, to him, it would appear, the ultimate deterrent. Much better than a submarine capable of carrying nuclear cruise missiles.

He'll spice it up from time to time by ascribing views to his opponents which they have never held.

He will, however, avoid answering a straight question even if you stick it down his trousers.

You really are a piece of work aren't you!

You said Israel are a terrorist State. I challenged that by asking under what recognised organisation had they been classed as such. You answered with the UN. I asked for proof. You quoted and posted 79 UN resolutions. I asked where, in any of them did it make that classification. You answered with, ah well they dare not because of the USA. I accused you of swapping your argument. You then countered with the you don't care what the UN call them. And then had the temerity to call me pedantic???

Now I "ascribing views to his opponents which they have never held"? Is anything above wrong? Misrepresented? Please tell me if I am wrong and kindly point it out. It is all there in the last 3 pages for everyone to see and read.

I will answer your question when you have answered mine although I don't speak Italian so pointless using it (or Arabic for that matter). This appears to be a common thread with you. You make an argument, twist and turn until proven wrong then rather than have the moral courage to admit your error you try and deflect attention by asking or demanding answers to a different question repeatedly.

I would also ask what listening device? Link?

[Grumfutock]

allnighter said:

He was still incapable of basic instruction and threw in some more childish insults

Please do not bother to reply

[allnighter]

real fingers mate. I agree with what you say but just a small point of order. Can we refrain from posting graphic pictures of dead children. I hope you dont mind me saying so. Cheers

[allnighter]

Grumfutock said:

allnighter said:

He was still incapable of basic instruction and threw in some more childish insults

Please do not bother to reply

I will reply till the cows come home! You are far from qualified to give anyone on here 'instructions' sunshine. This air of superiority of yours does not match you insecurities in insisting people dont reply to you on a public forum. Grow up!

[TheRealFingers99]

Grumfutock said:

You really are a piece of work aren't you!

Coming from you, that may be a compliment!

Grumfutock said:

You said Israel are a terrorist State. I challenged that by asking under what recognised organisation had they been classed as such. You answered with the UN.

Surely confusing me with someone else?

Grumfutock said:

I asked for proof. You quoted and posted 79 UN resolutions. I asked where, in any of them did it make that classification. You answered with, ah well they dare not because of the USA. I accused you of swapping your argument. You then countered with the you don't care what the UN call them.

It's absolutely true that I'm not prepared to fight on your terms. There are actions in the list from the UN that, to my mind, are clearly terrorist acts. I never saw your appeal to any recognised organisation as legitimate. I never even acknowledged it in argument. Why should I? You list the UN (which you denegrate in virtually every post) and NATO. I still can't see the relevance of NATO in all this.

Grumfutock said:

And then had the temerity to call me pedantic???

After you'd had the temerity to imply that I was a Hamas supporter? And if you read carefully, you'll see that at no point do I call you pedantic -- and I don't see me implying it, either.

Grumfutock said:

Now I "ascribing views to his opponents which they have never held"? Is anything above wrong? Misrepresented? Please tell me if I am wrong and kindly point it out. It is all there in the last 3 pages for everyone to see and read.

Indeed it is.

Grumfutock said:

And to be honest the attempt to justify the terrorist actions of Hamas by a comparing them to Israel's actions in frankly a pathetic sham.

Where I've never sought to justify them. They cannot be justified. But nor can Israel's. This is where we mainly differ, methinks.

Grumfutock said:

Would you excuse the shooting down of MH17 so readily if that had been done by Hamas? In fact dont bother to answer that one, I have a funny feeling I already know the answer!

. You clearly don't. I don't like Putin, either, and think his puppets were responsible.

Grumfutock said:

I will answer your question when you have answered mine .........

Which question was that?

Grumfutock said:

I would also ask what listening device? Link?

I posted up a link several pages ago:

1
2
3

[TheRealFingers99]

allnighter said:

real fingers mate. I agree with what you say but just a small point of order. Can we refrain from posting graphic pictures of dead children. I hope you dont mind me saying so. Cheers

I'm sorry. But I thought the subject (which I felt was being over-trivialised) needed grounding in its awful reality.

[Grumfutock]

allnighter said:

Yet more boring stuff

Please do not bother to reply

[Grumfutock]

So still refusing to answer the question and dodging it, you really should grow a spine. Interesting that you seem to also be denying saying stuff when it is written for the world to see.

I wont bother with the rest of your post as it is to long winded and pointless. No moral courage, no original thoughts and no clue, however you do have a hatred of Israel in abundance. Pathetic.

[allnighter]

Grumfutock said:

So still refusing to answer the question and dodging it, you really should grow a spine. Interesting that you seem to also be denying saying stuff when it is written for the world to see.

I wont bother with the rest of your post as it is to long winded and pointless. No moral courage, no original thoughts and no clue, however you do have a hatred of Israel in abundance. Pathetic.

Is he a Jew hater too? Go on admit it! You thought about it! Speaking of no moral courage, no clue, and no original thoughts: pot meets kettle?

Edited by allnighter on Tuesday 9th September 21:13

[TheRealFingers99]

Grumfutock said:

So still refusing to answer the question and dodging it, you really should grow a spine. Interesting that you seem to also be denying saying stuff when it is written for the world to see.

Then quote it! Show me up! Be a man! If anyone here needs to grow a spine, it has to be you. Did you have the only UN tank with reversing mirrors?

And look:

Grumfutock said:

I wont bother with the rest of your post as it is to long winded and pointless. No moral courage, no original thoughts and no clue, however you do have a hatred of Israel in abundance. Pathetic.

Sounds like you're taking the ball away again! Boo hoo.

[allnighter]

classic grum. Bring the shutters down. Shop closed .Nothing to see here when confronted with tough questions.

[SR7492]

allnighter said:

classic grum. Bring the shutters down. Shop closed .Nothing to see here when confronted with tough questions.

Pathetic isn't Allnighter?