Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 3]
Discussion
rovermorris999 said:
Quelle surprise!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3167159/Ho...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3167159/Ho...
French Weasel said:
Mr Hollande wrote that ‘the European spirit prevailed’ in dealing with the Greek crisis
It certainly did.The spirit of furthering the cause, regardless of the human cost.
The spirit of making sure no elected government can challenge the EU.
The spirit of bullying and intimidation and not to forget the spirit of using any crisis to call for more of the disastrous government that is slowly bringing the countries of the Eurozone to their knees.
Vive le spirit d'EU!
Mark Benson said:
rovermorris999 said:
Quelle surprise!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3167159/Ho...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3167159/Ho...
French Weasel said:
Mr Hollande wrote that ‘the European spirit prevailed’ in dealing with the Greek crisis
It certainly did.The spirit of furthering the cause, regardless of the human cost.
The spirit of making sure no elected government can challenge the EU.
The spirit of bullying and intimidation and not to forget the spirit of using any crisis to call for more of the disastrous government that is slowly bringing the countries of the Eurozone to their knees.
Vive le spirit d'EU!
Same story but from a leftist/pro-EU perspective. These guys are seriously deluded - not content with f8cking up their own economies.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33598868
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33598868
Mermaid said:
Mark Benson said:
rovermorris999 said:
Quelle surprise!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3167159/Ho...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3167159/Ho...
French Weasel said:
Mr Hollande wrote that ‘the European spirit prevailed’ in dealing with the Greek crisis
It certainly did.The spirit of furthering the cause, regardless of the human cost.
The spirit of making sure no elected government can challenge the EU.
The spirit of bullying and intimidation and not to forget the spirit of using any crisis to call for more of the disastrous government that is slowly bringing the countries of the Eurozone to their knees.
Vive le spirit d'EU!
As Rovermorris999, DJRC, Driller and others on this thread have said more than once the motivation of the EU was always political and selfish in seeking to retain a bankrupt state within the EU, because that is the dream that they have followed and the way thy hoped they could build a massive forune for themselves, their apparatchik supporters and the Politicians within the EU. The motivation was indeed therefore political and never economic.
The problem in this half baked nonsense is that in that very process the EU have totally failed to actually save Greece from failing but rather created a visible and dirisible nonsense financial bubble around Greece which has had the effect of exposing all the machinations and nonsenses therin to all of the observers watching this twaddle. The little reputation that the EU had created for itself as responsible politicians, has been totally destroyed by ths entirely visible nonsense. The EU can and are keeping this going by printing Euros happily and giving them to Greece so that Greece can appear to pay it's arrears on its loans, the interest on the labs, and then borrrow still more capital from the EU.
But this had ruined any chance the EU ever had of ever being taken seriously as a trustworthy operation. Modern Poloticians have demonstrated frequently that they are too slick and clever to ever be caught in their fiddling on the job. As my father advised miscreants, many years ago, "Never be a sheep stealer. Too risky and too easily spotted. Always rely on subtle dishonesty and misrepresentation and steal the land from under the sheep. That way you get both the sheep and the land.". The EU has acheved just that misrepresentation very effectively. But in the process the EU has exposed the nonsense for what it is and ruined any prospects there might have been for the EU as a long term grouping of European States. Sadly I do think we are looking at the beginnings of major changes within the EU in conseqence.
There really is no future in this now IMO. Hollande is back in fantasy land with wild dreams of ever greater unity in Euroe and proposing European government whilst offering policies which will bankrupt the EU if they are adopted. Merkel is now begining to admit that Debt Relief must be offerred to Greece, whilst at the same time denying any need to write off any of the Greek loans. Greece cannot recover from the absolute ruined economy that Greece has become and as Vourfakis constantly confirms Greeceis is bound to fail again because without debt relief Greece cannot recover.
There may be a short period whilst the latest waste by the EU, of yet more Billions of Euros, thrown to Greece, to sustain a bankrupt nation, within the EU, temporarily hides the reality of the hopless insolvency of Greece. But reality will shine through that expensive and wasteful smokescreen very quickly. There can be no permanence in this because Greece is bankrupt and pretending otherwise is not a sustainable position.
I can see really serious concerns being expressed within a number of EU states about the dangers that this nonsense have made apparent and created for the EU. The UK referendum is only months away. I am really beginning to think that there is a very real possibility that the UK will vote to pull out. This could make the Scottish affair recently look like a Vicarage tea party. I can see major changes coming none of which are going to be good for the EU.
Steffan said:
. The UK referendum is only months away. I am really beginning to think that there is a very real possibility that the UK will vote to pull out. This could make the Scottish affair recently look like a Vicarage tea party. I can see major changes coming none of which are going to be good for the EU.
They could always declare war on us.. third time lucky and all that..Steffan said:
Indeed.
As Rovermorris999, DJRC, Driller and others on this thread have said more than once the motivation of the EU was always political and selfish in seeking to retain a bankrupt state within the EU, because that is the dream that they have followed and the way thy hoped they could build a massive forune for themselves, their apparatchik supporters and the Politicians within the EU. The motivation was indeed therefore political and never economic.
The problem in this half baked nonsense is that in that very process the EU have totally failed to actually save Greece from failing but rather created a visible and dirisible nonsense financial bubble around Greece which has had the effect of exposing all the machinations and nonsenses therin to all of the observers watching this twaddle. The little reputation that the EU had created for itself as responsible politicians, has been totally destroyed by ths entirely visible nonsense. The EU can and are keeping this going by printing Euros happily and giving them to Greece so that Greece can appear to pay it's arrears on its loans, the interest on the labs, and then borrrow still more capital from the EU.
But this had ruined any chance the EU ever had of ever being taken seriously as a trustworthy operation. Modern Poloticians have demonstrated frequently that they are too slick and clever to ever be caught in their fiddling on the job. As my father advised miscreants, many years ago, "Never be a sheep stealer. Too risky and too easily spotted. Always rely on subtle dishonesty and misrepresentation and steal the land from under the sheep. That way you get both the sheep and the land.". The EU has acheved just that misrepresentation very effectively. But in the process the EU has exposed the nonsense for what it is and ruined any prospects there might have been for the EU as a long term grouping of European States. Sadly I do think we are looking at the beginnings of major changes within the EU in conseqence.
There really is no future in this now IMO. Hollande is back in fantasy land with wild dreams of ever greater unity in Euroe and proposing European government whilst offering policies which will bankrupt the EU if they are adopted. Merkel is now begining to admit that Debt Relief must be offerred to Greece, whilst at the same time denying any need to write off any of the Greek loans. Greece cannot recover from the absolute ruined economy that Greece has become and as Vourfakis constantly confirms Greeceis is bound to fail again because without debt relief Greece cannot recover.
There may be a short period whilst the latest waste by the EU, of yet more Billions of Euros, thrown to Greece, to sustain a bankrupt nation, within the EU, temporarily hides the reality of the hopless insolvency of Greece. But reality will shine through that expensive and wasteful smokescreen very quickly. There can be no permanence in this because Greece is bankrupt and pretending otherwise is not a sustainable position.
I can see really serious concerns being expressed within a number of EU states about the dangers that this nonsense have made apparent and created for the EU. The UK referendum is only months away. I am really beginning to think that there is a very real possibility that the UK will vote to pull out. This could make the Scottish affair recently look like a Vicarage tea party. I can see major changes coming none of which are going to be good for the EU.
The thing is though, whilst the usual suspects on here are acutely aware of the EU shenanigans, I seriously doubt that the vast majority of the UK voters are. And that's before the 'selling' starts.As Rovermorris999, DJRC, Driller and others on this thread have said more than once the motivation of the EU was always political and selfish in seeking to retain a bankrupt state within the EU, because that is the dream that they have followed and the way thy hoped they could build a massive forune for themselves, their apparatchik supporters and the Politicians within the EU. The motivation was indeed therefore political and never economic.
The problem in this half baked nonsense is that in that very process the EU have totally failed to actually save Greece from failing but rather created a visible and dirisible nonsense financial bubble around Greece which has had the effect of exposing all the machinations and nonsenses therin to all of the observers watching this twaddle. The little reputation that the EU had created for itself as responsible politicians, has been totally destroyed by ths entirely visible nonsense. The EU can and are keeping this going by printing Euros happily and giving them to Greece so that Greece can appear to pay it's arrears on its loans, the interest on the labs, and then borrrow still more capital from the EU.
But this had ruined any chance the EU ever had of ever being taken seriously as a trustworthy operation. Modern Poloticians have demonstrated frequently that they are too slick and clever to ever be caught in their fiddling on the job. As my father advised miscreants, many years ago, "Never be a sheep stealer. Too risky and too easily spotted. Always rely on subtle dishonesty and misrepresentation and steal the land from under the sheep. That way you get both the sheep and the land.". The EU has acheved just that misrepresentation very effectively. But in the process the EU has exposed the nonsense for what it is and ruined any prospects there might have been for the EU as a long term grouping of European States. Sadly I do think we are looking at the beginnings of major changes within the EU in conseqence.
There really is no future in this now IMO. Hollande is back in fantasy land with wild dreams of ever greater unity in Euroe and proposing European government whilst offering policies which will bankrupt the EU if they are adopted. Merkel is now begining to admit that Debt Relief must be offerred to Greece, whilst at the same time denying any need to write off any of the Greek loans. Greece cannot recover from the absolute ruined economy that Greece has become and as Vourfakis constantly confirms Greeceis is bound to fail again because without debt relief Greece cannot recover.
There may be a short period whilst the latest waste by the EU, of yet more Billions of Euros, thrown to Greece, to sustain a bankrupt nation, within the EU, temporarily hides the reality of the hopless insolvency of Greece. But reality will shine through that expensive and wasteful smokescreen very quickly. There can be no permanence in this because Greece is bankrupt and pretending otherwise is not a sustainable position.
I can see really serious concerns being expressed within a number of EU states about the dangers that this nonsense have made apparent and created for the EU. The UK referendum is only months away. I am really beginning to think that there is a very real possibility that the UK will vote to pull out. This could make the Scottish affair recently look like a Vicarage tea party. I can see major changes coming none of which are going to be good for the EU.
I'd propose that when Greece fails 'again' (inevitably) the EU will be sold as the saviour. The nice kind saviour that prevented Greece from terrible times...
A pox on all their houses.
Mermaid said:
Steffan said:
. The UK referendum is only months away. I am really beginning to think that there is a very real possibility that the UK will vote to pull out. This could make the Scottish affair recently look like a Vicarage tea party. I can see major changes coming none of which are going to be good for the EU.
They could always declare war on us.. third time lucky and all that..Well, that's a step in the right direction, now if they could borrow another £300bn they could pay off all their debts and be out of trouble...
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/20/gr...
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/20/gr...
Guardian said:
Greece has taken a step back to normality after its banks reopened following three weeks of closures and receipt of a €7.2bn (£5bn) loan, with almost all of it spent on repaying debts.
Greek officials began paying back international lenders shortly after the emergency bridging loan arrived in the Greek government’s bank account on Monday.
The EU agreed the loan on Friday to enable Athens to meet urgent debt repayments and clear arrears, both necessary hurdles if the Greek government is to get a three-year bailout worth up to €86bn.
Greek officials began paying back international lenders shortly after the emergency bridging loan arrived in the Greek government’s bank account on Monday.
The EU agreed the loan on Friday to enable Athens to meet urgent debt repayments and clear arrears, both necessary hurdles if the Greek government is to get a three-year bailout worth up to €86bn.
RYH64E said:
Well, that's a step in the right direction, now if they could borrow another £300bn they could pay off all their debts and be out of trouble...
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/20/gr...
its beggars belief. face palm. Lets hope this can Kicking blows up again just before we in the UK vote to leave or stay in. We need to leave. seriously. Would anyone disagree on PH now?http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/20/gr...
Guardian said:
Greece has taken a step back to normality after its banks reopened following three weeks of closures and receipt of a €7.2bn (£5bn) loan, with almost all of it spent on repaying debts.
Greek officials began paying back international lenders shortly after the emergency bridging loan arrived in the Greek government’s bank account on Monday.
The EU agreed the loan on Friday to enable Athens to meet urgent debt repayments and clear arrears, both necessary hurdles if the Greek government is to get a three-year bailout worth up to €86bn.
Greek officials began paying back international lenders shortly after the emergency bridging loan arrived in the Greek government’s bank account on Monday.
The EU agreed the loan on Friday to enable Athens to meet urgent debt repayments and clear arrears, both necessary hurdles if the Greek government is to get a three-year bailout worth up to €86bn.
superlightr said:
We need to leave. seriously. Would anyone disagree on PH now?
Me.What difference would leaving the EU make to the UK? The UK isn't in the Eurozone, so not on any hooks there. If they leave the EU to dodge that hook, they'll just get caught up in the IMF hook instead. Do you think the UK will just stand by and watch a modern European democracy, one that is a military partner in NATO, descend into anarchy and destabilise the entire SE Europe/Balkans area, without pitching in to help?
slow_poke said:
superlightr said:
We need to leave. seriously. Would anyone disagree on PH now?
Me.What difference would leaving the EU make to the UK? The UK isn't in the Eurozone, so not on any hooks there. If they leave the EU to dodge that hook, they'll just get caught up in the IMF hook instead. Do you think the UK will just stand by and watch a modern European democracy, one that is a military partner in NATO, descend into anarchy and destabilise the entire SE Europe/Balkans area, without pitching in to help?
LongQ said:
slow_poke said:
superlightr said:
We need to leave. seriously. Would anyone disagree on PH now?
Me.What difference would leaving the EU make to the UK? The UK isn't in the Eurozone, so not on any hooks there. If they leave the EU to dodge that hook, they'll just get caught up in the IMF hook instead. Do you think the UK will just stand by and watch a modern European democracy, one that is a military partner in NATO, descend into anarchy and destabilise the entire SE Europe/Balkans area, without pitching in to help?
Steffan said:
LongQ said:
slow_poke said:
superlightr said:
We need to leave. seriously. Would anyone disagree on PH now?
Me.What difference would leaving the EU make to the UK? The UK isn't in the Eurozone, so not on any hooks there. If they leave the EU to dodge that hook, they'll just get caught up in the IMF hook instead. Do you think the UK will just stand by and watch a modern European democracy, one that is a military partner in NATO, descend into anarchy and destabilise the entire SE Europe/Balkans area, without pitching in to help?
Interesting that the period should be given such a name - the "Prague Spring" was also somewhat short lived in its day.
Indeed I do agree the record of recent UK interventions abroad has been dreadfull. Hardly surprising we are as unpopular as we are in the countries treated in that way. Cameron is unlikely to fare any better. Much to be said for concentrating on our own problems. But Politicians do like the drama and publicity that such opportunities offer and of course, face no consequences personally. Always easy to be brave when others are literally in the firing line.
GlenMH said:
Mermaid said:
Steffan said:
. The UK referendum is only months away. I am really beginning to think that there is a very real possibility that the UK will vote to pull out. This could make the Scottish affair recently look like a Vicarage tea party. I can see major changes coming none of which are going to be good for the EU.
They could always declare war on us.. third time lucky and all that..Considering that the whole of the Eurozone is terrified of writing off billions of Euros lost to Greece, many EU economies which are either in recession or only just out of it, high unemployment in Italy, Spain etc, I think we are defiantly winning!
But on the other thing... I think most UK citizens would vote to stay within the UK because the alternative is unknown... and when our economy is getting better why would you want to risk the unknown?
slow_poke said:
superlightr said:
We need to leave. seriously. Would anyone disagree on PH now?
Me.What difference would leaving the EU make to the UK? The UK isn't in the Eurozone, so not on any hooks there. If they leave the EU to dodge that hook, they'll just get caught up in the IMF hook instead. Do you think the UK will just stand by and watch a modern European democracy, one that is a military partner in NATO, descend into anarchy and destabilise the entire SE Europe/Balkans area, without pitching in to help?
If the current EU is a 'modern European democracy' (though I see little evidence of democracy in the EU) then it surely is to be shunned until it dies off completely.
What has membership of NATO got to with being in the EU?
What would stop a nation outside of the EU 'pitching in to help' if the scenario you imagine were to be realised?
Finally, the EZ is just one rotten feature of a corrupt, chaotic EU. It doesn't exist without the EU and being outside of the EZ doesn't mean you will avoid the flack as it explodes, as we have already seen.
slow_poke said:
REALIST123 said:
What has membership of NATO got to with being in the EU?
What would stop a nation outside of the EU 'pitching in to help' if the scenario you imagine were to be realised?
Exactly. You make my point for me.What would stop a nation outside of the EU 'pitching in to help' if the scenario you imagine were to be realised?
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