Israeli

[TheRealFingers99]

Lost soul said:

I am not prepared to take that chance why should any of us take that chance they have proved that they are not fit to live amongst us , let them die over there

If they've done no harm, where is the harm?

[Lost soul]

Grumfutock said:

TheRealFingers99 said:

I think the important point I raised was If they've seen the reality and been appalled by it, changed their minds without doing any harm.

If they've done harm, the situation is rather different. But I raised the idea as a hope. It's hardly civilised or "Western" to kill the prodigal son.

And how would you suggest that this notion is policed and verified? Should we get them to swear on the Koran that they were good little boys and have reformed?

Let them all go to Syria , in fact I am all for assisted jizzhadists , get them over there and then unleash some fuel - air ordinance

Problem solved

And also the benefits bill reduced by a little

[Grumfutock]

zuby84 said:

For once I agree with you. It's going to be very difficult to tell who "made mistakes" and who of them "are evil." I've said it before; I think to make this distinction clearer in future - we should make it illegal for any British citizen to fight for another entity apart from Britain. This means that if someone was to come back from "fighting" then they would have committed a provable crime rather than the powers-that-be [swayed by public opinion] being the judge of who the "bogeyman of the month" is and what or not one is allowed to fight for.

God lord, tis a miracle!

The only problem that I see with this is French Foreign Legion and the UN. You might not realise but whilst you serve with the UN you hand back you British ID card and are effectively employed thy the UN. We also send a lot of troops on exchange tours and training missions to other nations. Look at Oman at the Dhofar rebellion as an example. I for one went through the invasion of Iraq in 2003 as a British Liaison Officer with the US V Corps, whilst still a British soldier it could make a very grey area.

zuby84 said:

Only a short while ago - we were triumphing British Muslims going to fight in Libya and Syria (against Gaddafi and Assad respectively.) Now suddenly - the goal posts have changed and everyone fighting in that area is now "bad" (not everyone fighting in that region is pro-ISIS.) As a result, there will be some people who were being triumphed by us a short while ago; but now (rightly) being condoned by us. Messy signals to say the least.

And this just show how fickle that part of the world and its religions are. A massive minefield.

zuby84 said:

To bring this thread back on topic; this would also mean that no British citizen be allowed to fight for Israel. If you want to do that; renounce your British Citizenship and apply for an Israeli one.

Agree 100%. If it is to serve a different country then citizenship should be revoked.

[Grumfutock]

TheRealFingers99 said:

If they've done no harm, where is the harm?

I would suggest that the desire, intent and action of going was crime and harmful enough.

[Lost soul]

TheRealFingers99 said:

Lost soul said:

I am not prepared to take that chance why should any of us take that chance they have proved that they are not fit to live amongst us , let them die over there

If they've done no harm, where is the harm?

Going there is enough

[TheRealFingers99]

Grumfutock said:

Ah so apart from being a Jewish/Israel/Palestinian scholar you are also combat trained and experienced. Wow! Good for you.

Not at all. Remember the old slogan "Join the Amateurs"? We're talking self defence, here, not world conquest. Think Spanish Civil War, Rojava, etc.

Grumfutock said:

I am also glad to know you have an extensive knowledge of the threats faced by the UK since the 80's.

I was waiting for an esteemed military historian to tell me of some. Nothing jumps to mind.

[Grumfutock]

TheRealFingers99 said:

I was waiting for an esteemed military historian to tell me of some. Nothing jumps to mind.

Really? Nothing since the 80's other than the Serbs that you mentioned?

I will assume you aren't being serious and, in some way, trying to be whimsical.

[TheRealFingers99]

Grumfutock said:

Really? Nothing since the 80's other than the Serbs that you mentioned?

Well even the Serbs were not a threat to me, personally.

Grumfutock said:

I will assume you aren't being serious and, in some way, trying to be whimsical.

Really. IRA excepted, can't think of any threats to me (and even then, it wasn't personal). Do tell.

[Grumfutock]

TheRealFingers99 said:

Really. IRA excepted, can't think of any threats to me (and even then, it wasn't personal). Do tell.

Oh I see, it has to be a personal threat. Pull up the ladder then Jack!

[TheRealFingers99]

It has to be real, concrete, and not simply "agin the national interest". (After all, you and I may well disagree about the national interest -- indeed, I'd be shocked if we didn't.)

[Grumfutock]

TheRealFingers99 said:

It has to be real, concrete, and not simply "agin the national interest". (After all, you and I may well disagree about the national interest -- indeed, I'd be shocked if we didn't.)

Wonderful principles and very good to know that when a terrorist blows you to kingdom come that you will be happy in the thought that you might agree with him, on principle!!!

What a ludicrous thing to say! A national threat effects EVERYONE!

[TheRealFingers99]

Grumfutock said:

Wonderful principles and very good to know that when a terrorist blows you to kingdom come that you will be happy in the thought that you might agree with him, on principle!!!

What a ludicrous thing to say! A national threat effects EVERYONE!

If it truly is a national threat and not some willy waving contest.

[Grumfutock]

I am sorry but you have taken being a hug a hoody, PC, tree hugging loon way past the norm.

[TheRealFingers99]

Grumfutock said:

I am sorry but you have taken being a hug a hoody, PC, tree hugging loon way past the norm.

Don't get the hoody or tree hugging bit (due to remove the CAT on the MR2): loon is surely a matter of opinion. But at least they're my opinions!

Now, heval, can we talk about Israel?

[Slaav]

FFS

[TheRealFingers99]

US condemns Israeli housing plan: “We are deeply concerned by this decision particularly given the tense situation in Jerusalem........ Most importantly they are contrary to Israel’s own stated goal of achieving a two-state solution because they make it more difficult to do that.”

http://www.timesofisrael.com/us-deeply-concerned-a...

And

Israel announces it won’t cooperate with UN Gaza probe

Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Thursday 13th November 03:28

[Grumfutock]

Stop the terrorism and you stop the land grab! Simples.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/police-stop-palestini...

[TheRealFingers99]

Grumfutock said:

Stop the terrorism and you stop the land grab! Simples.

Don't be silly. The land grab began and continues as an act of terror by means of terror. Where has Bibi ever stated that the two are linked? Even Livni has stated there will be no Palestinian sovereignty.

Stop the ethnic cleansing, the crass ignoring of UN, the land grab and the occupation, and the "terrorism" stops. Simpler. (Israel has a unified command structure.)

Or, in Grumspeak, if Israel has all of the cards, it must put some on the table for others to play.

Fortunately, Grum is representative (by proxy) only of the loony right of Israel's loony right.

Poll: Majority of Israelis support responding to terror with peace talks Simpler still.

Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Thursday 13th November 13:47

[Grumfutock]

Yea peace baby, like, lets just love each other.

[TheRealFingers99]

So, terrorist to peacenik in 4 pages?

Address the issues, corporal.