Angela Rayner to face investigation?
Discussion
EddieSteadyGo said:
Don't you think we are going to see exactly the same stories about sleaze, impropriety, fraud, lying etc etc from the incoming Labour government that we have had with the current government? I predict it will be exactly the same, including the trading of pointless trinkets like 'knighthoods' as 'rewards' for favours done.
Same old.
Labour sourced Speaker Michael Martin said:
I didn't come into politics not to take what's owed to me
EddieSteadyGo said:
Randy Winkman said:
Exactly. People can buy knighthoods and nobody gets in trouble.
Don't you think we are going to see exactly the same stories about sleaze, impropriety, fraud, lying etc etc from the incoming Labour government that we have had with the current government? I predict it will be exactly the same, including the trading of pointless trinkets like 'knighthoods' as 'rewards' for favours done.When someone from either side, allegedly does something `naughty. each side seems to go through some remarkable mental legal, and verbal gymnastics, to try to justify what the person in question has done.
And some still seem to wonder why many are getting entirely fed up and disillusioned by politics and politicians, no matter what colour Rosette they wear.
EddieSteadyGo said:
Don't you think we are going to see exactly the same stories about sleaze, impropriety, fraud, lying etc etc from the incoming Labour government that we have had with the current government? I predict it will be exactly the same, including the trading of pointless trinkets like 'knighthoods' as 'rewards' for favours done.
Not remotely on the same scale & it's ludicrous to believe otherwise.£37bn Track & trace
Hancock's pub mate
Mone's PPE
Partying in Downing Sreet & the lies that followed
Free wallpaper (lol)
Pincher, Bone, Wragg, Benton, Parish...
£370k Patel spent settling bullying claims
Sunak & endless deals for Infosys
Stuffing the Lords with your pals & maybe one of your children
These are only the ones I can remember. Some of you good old boys are so hilariously lost ih your own credo & amnesia that your moral compasses have up & exploded.
President Merkin said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
Don't you think we are going to see exactly the same stories about sleaze, impropriety, fraud, lying etc etc from the incoming Labour government that we have had with the current government? I predict it will be exactly the same, including the trading of pointless trinkets like 'knighthoods' as 'rewards' for favours done.
Not remotely on the same scale & it's ludicrous to believe otherwise.£37bn Track & trace
Hancock's pub mate
Mone's PPE
Partying in Downing Sreet & the lies that followed
Free wallpaper (lol)
Pincher, Bone, Wragg, Benton, Parish...
£370k Patel spent settling bullying claims
Sunak & endless deals for Infosys
Stuffing the Lords with your pals & maybe one of your children
These are only the ones I can remember. Some of you good old boys are so hilariously lost ih your own credo & amnesia that your moral compasses have up & exploded.
All the money / time / energy wasted on sending a few asylum seekers to Rwanda.
The ongoing payments to hotel owners becuase they underfunded the asylum claims system and turned a six month turnaround into a mulit-year claims process.
The barge to hold asylum seekers (massively overpaid).
The money paid to ferry companies as part of brexit that didn't materalise (12m was it?)
The entire cost of brexit.
The list is endless.
President Merkin said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
Don't you think we are going to see exactly the same stories about sleaze, impropriety, fraud, lying etc etc from the incoming Labour government that we have had with the current government? I predict it will be exactly the same, including the trading of pointless trinkets like 'knighthoods' as 'rewards' for favours done.
Not remotely on the same scale & it's ludicrous to believe otherwise.£37bn Track & trace
Hancock's pub mate
Mone's PPE
Partying in Downing Sreet & the lies that followed
Free wallpaper (lol)
Pincher, Bone, Wragg, Benton, Parish...
£370k Patel spent settling bullying claims
Sunak & endless deals for Infosys
Stuffing the Lords with your pals & maybe one of your children
These are only the ones I can remember. Some of you good old boys are so hilariously lost ih your own credo & amnesia that your moral compasses have up & exploded.
President Merkin said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
Don't you think we are going to see exactly the same stories about sleaze, impropriety, fraud, lying etc etc from the incoming Labour government that we have had with the current government? I predict it will be exactly the same, including the trading of pointless trinkets like 'knighthoods' as 'rewards' for favours done.
Not remotely on the same scale & it's ludicrous to believe otherwise.£37bn Track & trace
Hancock's pub mate
Mone's PPE
Partying in Downing Sreet & the lies that followed
Free wallpaper (lol)
Pincher, Bone, Wragg, Benton, Parish...
£370k Patel spent settling bullying claims
Sunak & endless deals for Infosys
Stuffing the Lords with your pals & maybe one of your children
These are only the ones I can remember. Some of you good old boys are so hilariously lost ih your own credo & amnesia that your moral compasses have up & exploded.
How are you getting on, with those one way glasses you seem to be wearing?
Pan Pan Pan said:
It seems that you are lost too, since you have not included all the issues which cost the country's taxpayers a fortune when labour were in power. Try selling off part of the country's gold reserves, at an all time low price costing the country billions, or a multi billion pound computer system, that did not work for a start.
How are you getting on, with those one way glasses you seem to be wearing?
You appear to be unable to distinguish between contentious events & flat out corruption. Now we've cleared that up, would you suggest we take your other opinions seriously?How are you getting on, with those one way glasses you seem to be wearing?
I'm not interested in partisan tribalism of any colour.
If these allegations are proven to be true then Rayner should have the book thrown at her the same as any other politician who had committed fraud.
Until then it's all just speculation and, quelle surprise, rabble rousing from possibly the most hateful rag being currently published
If these allegations are proven to be true then Rayner should have the book thrown at her the same as any other politician who had committed fraud.
Until then it's all just speculation and, quelle surprise, rabble rousing from possibly the most hateful rag being currently published
BigMon said:
I'm not interested in partisan tribalism of any colour.
If these allegations are proven to be true then Rayner should have the book thrown at her the same as any other politician who had committed fraud.
Until then it's all just speculation and, quelle surprise, rabble rousing from possibly the most hateful rag being currently published
Quite.If these allegations are proven to be true then Rayner should have the book thrown at her the same as any other politician who had committed fraud.
Until then it's all just speculation and, quelle surprise, rabble rousing from possibly the most hateful rag being currently published
Ronstein said:
It all illustrates how fundamentally flawed party politics is. Oh for a Utopia where all people elect an independent MP for their constituency who is responsible and accountable solely to their constituents for representing their interests.
Yes, people bemoan the quality of MPs, because they're almost all utterly appalling, but these are the people that the parties are setup to encourage and promote. All the stuff about pay and abuse and what not aren't the reasons we have crap MPs, it's that both parties actively filter out competent and principled people one way or another. If you're competent and principled you won't be selected to stand for either party and you won't win as an independent. Generally speaking.I don't know what the answer is, I would like to see a really low bar for disqualification and ejection from Parliament, but that sort of thing is obviously not possibly with current MPs being in charge of what they're allowed to get away with.
BigMon said:
I'm not interested in partisan tribalism of any colour.
If these allegations are proven to be true then Rayner should have the book thrown at her the same as any other politician who had committed fraud.
Until then it's all just speculation and, quelle surprise, rabble rousing from possibly the most hateful rag being currently published
"Fraud" FFS. I would suggest, if we use this as the basis for "throwing the book" at someone, then *everyone* would be guilty of something. If these allegations are proven to be true then Rayner should have the book thrown at her the same as any other politician who had committed fraud.
Until then it's all just speculation and, quelle surprise, rabble rousing from possibly the most hateful rag being currently published
If I was to place myself into Rayner's situation, she was probably thinking about the welfare of her family and her future, and whether she wanted to fully commit to this new relationship. She didn't have a lot of money, and she wasn't thinking about being Deputy PM, so she used some grey areas, as everyone would. In fact, in the same circumstances, I could imagine myself doing exactly the same thing. When she gets asked about it many years later, she's embarrassed, and does what is the normal response i.e. deny it.
All the people (like you) who are would throw the book at her for "fraud" deserve what you get i.e. second rate politicians.
EddieSteadyGo said:
BigMon said:
I'm not interested in partisan tribalism of any colour.
If these allegations are proven to be true then Rayner should have the book thrown at her the same as any other politician who had committed fraud.
Until then it's all just speculation and, quelle surprise, rabble rousing from possibly the most hateful rag being currently published
"Fraud" FFS. I would suggest, if we use this as the basis for "throwing the book" at someone, then *everyone* would be guilty of something. If these allegations are proven to be true then Rayner should have the book thrown at her the same as any other politician who had committed fraud.
Until then it's all just speculation and, quelle surprise, rabble rousing from possibly the most hateful rag being currently published
If I was to place myself into Rayner's situation, she was probably thinking about the welfare of her family and her future, and whether she wanted to fully commit to this new relationship. She didn't have a lot of money, and she wasn't thinking about being Deputy PM, so she used some grey areas, as everyone would. In fact, in the same circumstances, I could imagine myself doing exactly the same thing. When she gets asked about it many years later, she's embarrassed, and does what is the normal response i.e. deny it.
All the people (like you) who are would throw the book at her for "fraud" deserve what you get i.e. second rate politicians.
Because that's what everybody who is unsure about committing to a new relationship does - marries and has a kid with this person they're not so sure about!
EddieSteadyGo said:
BigMon said:
I'm not interested in partisan tribalism of any colour.
If these allegations are proven to be true then Rayner should have the book thrown at her the same as any other politician who had committed fraud.
Until then it's all just speculation and, quelle surprise, rabble rousing from possibly the most hateful rag being currently published
"Fraud" FFS. I would suggest, if we use this as the basis for "throwing the book" at someone, then *everyone* would be guilty of something. If these allegations are proven to be true then Rayner should have the book thrown at her the same as any other politician who had committed fraud.
Until then it's all just speculation and, quelle surprise, rabble rousing from possibly the most hateful rag being currently published
If I was to place myself into Rayner's situation, she was probably thinking about the welfare of her family and her future, and whether she wanted to fully commit to this new relationship. She didn't have a lot of money, and she wasn't thinking about being Deputy PM, so she used some grey areas, as everyone would. In fact, in the same circumstances, I could imagine myself doing exactly the same thing. When she gets asked about it many years later, she's embarrassed, and does what is the normal response i.e. deny it.
All the people (like you) who are would throw the book at her for "fraud" deserve what you get i.e. second rate politicians.
We should be adult enough to realise this is the real world and s
t happens, people in the most part are just trying to get through life as best they can and I sincerely doubt there was some Machiavellian plot to evade a couple of grand of CGT. Perhaps maximise what was available to her through whatever options she had at the time but that is no different to most of us, again I doubt she was thinking what if I am ever sitting on the front bench how would this look splashed across the papers...We get the politicians we deserve and our endless need for scandal leads us to where we are.
There was a tax lawyer on LBC this morning, saying that the rules round CGT on property are quite grey, eg, you can nominate which is your main residence as often as you want.
His conclusion was that even experts get it wrong.
As for electoral fraud, if she has deliberately committed fraud then she isn't fit for office.
There was also a reference into what is being reported as a new police investigation into her, apparently its an investigation into the police's investigation - ie, did they do it right? Its a not a new investigation into her.
His conclusion was that even experts get it wrong.
As for electoral fraud, if she has deliberately committed fraud then she isn't fit for office.
There was also a reference into what is being reported as a new police investigation into her, apparently its an investigation into the police's investigation - ie, did they do it right? Its a not a new investigation into her.
simon_harris said:
Part of the problem as I see it is that there is now zero degrees of latitude for any "indiscretion" so the default answer on any accusation is straight denial, that is then slowly walked back as details (and the truth) emerges in a fairly blatant attempt to mitigate consequences.
We should be adult enough to realise this is the real world and st happens, people in the most part are just trying to get through life as best they can and I sincerely doubt there was some Machiavellian plot to evade a couple of grand of CGT. Perhaps maximise what was available to her through whatever options she had at the time but that is no different to most of us, again I doubt she was thinking what if I am ever sitting on the front bench how would this look splashed across the papers...
We get the politicians we deserve and our endless need for scandal leads us to where we are.
Exactly. I've been thinking about this, as to whether there is a solution, but it's hard. We have had so many years of Conservative government, that all their opponents have loved slinging mud, sometimes deserved, other times not so much. Truth didn't really matter, provided it fitted Rayner's favourite narrative of "Tory scum". And we will now go into the next 5 years of a Labour government where, despite all the "holier-than-thou" pronouncements, we will discover those politicians will have many of the same character flaws as the politicians in the present government. We should be adult enough to realise this is the real world and s
t happens, people in the most part are just trying to get through life as best they can and I sincerely doubt there was some Machiavellian plot to evade a couple of grand of CGT. Perhaps maximise what was available to her through whatever options she had at the time but that is no different to most of us, again I doubt she was thinking what if I am ever sitting on the front bench how would this look splashed across the papers...We get the politicians we deserve and our endless need for scandal leads us to where we are.
But what do we really want from our politicians and what can we reasonably expect? Truthfulness I think is important. But that means we don't "throw the book" at misdemeanours or even more serious mistakes. The satisfaction of being judgemental (enjoyed by some on here and social media in general) is corrosive because no-one can ever meet the standard, not even themselves.
And the focus on trivia means policy choices are not debated. Surely we want a government to create the best framework that is likely to improve societal health and wealth over coming decades? Whereas we seem to want to focus on finding "hypocrites" and then excoriating them, which generates a lot more heat than light.
simon_harris said:
Part of the problem as I see it is that there is now zero degrees of latitude for any "indiscretion" so the default answer on any accusation is straight denial, that is then slowly walked back as details (and the truth) emerges in a fairly blatant attempt to mitigate consequences.
We should be adult enough to realise this is the real world and st happens, people in the most part are just trying to get through life as best they can and I sincerely doubt there was some Machiavellian plot to evade a couple of grand of CGT. Perhaps maximise what was available to her through whatever options she had at the time but that is no different to most of us, again I doubt she was thinking what if I am ever sitting on the front bench how would this look splashed across the papers...
We get the politicians we deserve and our endless need for scandal leads us to where we are.
This. (Regardless of party.)We should be adult enough to realise this is the real world and s
t happens, people in the most part are just trying to get through life as best they can and I sincerely doubt there was some Machiavellian plot to evade a couple of grand of CGT. Perhaps maximise what was available to her through whatever options she had at the time but that is no different to most of us, again I doubt she was thinking what if I am ever sitting on the front bench how would this look splashed across the papers...We get the politicians we deserve and our endless need for scandal leads us to where we are.
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