Muslim protests in UK
Discussion
It seems the MCB is the moderate voice at times, and not at other times - do the so called moderates have ONE association that represents their views to deal with the loud voices from the so called extremists?
I recall there was a guy called Iqbal Sacranie (sp?) put forward as a spokesman in years gone by.
I recall there was a guy called Iqbal Sacranie (sp?) put forward as a spokesman in years gone by.
Countdown said:
For it to be an issue with a player (or players) and for it then to go direct to the MCB (without it becoming public) would be surprising, to say the least. The MCB don't have any role in what players should or shouldn't do, and any player who felt this was an issue would (IMO) have spoken to his local Imam rather than the MCB. I'd also have expected the MCB to state that players had raised these concerns with them, rather than it bein a general statement.
Keep batting, but no runs being scored 
Countdown said:
Mr_B said:
Indeed. Can we only have selective Sharia laws then, where you don't we have to accept all of them ?
Absolutely, but I think you miss the point. In the UK we do not accept Shariah Law (or talmudic law or biblical law). We accept a law decided through democratic process. That law may agree with sharia/talmud/bible principles but that does not make it a Sharia Law.Mr_B said:
If the ultra moderate MCB wants to force its opinion on this part of Sharia law, why does it not seek to impose the rest ?
Not sure what you mean. The MCB can have an opinion about anything (just like you, me, or anybody else). It can't force that opinion on anybody. If the MCB said tomorrow "Right, all football clubs apart from Manchester United are banned" what exactly will happen ?OTOH is the "Ban all non-Manchester United Football Clubs" party was elected with a parliamnetary majority it might be a different story
Mr_B said:
I would have thought if you were keen on one law to apply , as the MCB seem to keen, are you not going against your God to say that this bad law that many think retarded now, doesn't apply because most don't believe it now ?
The MCB don't speak for God (as far as I'm aware) Like most people I look at the issue and make my own decisions. Admittedly I'm not a big fan of profiteering from desperate people who have nowhere else to turn to, but it's a free country and money lending is perfectly legal. If i was a newcastle player it certainly wouldnt bother me.Also like the pick and choose aspect to religion and ignore all the bad bits that look a tad silly several thousands of years later, despite being the word of a God, and just focus on the nice happy stuff that makes it look great, but then hasn't that always been the way, men choosing the bits they want and the bits they don't and then proclaiming it to still be the word of God ?
Mermaid said:
It seems the MCB is the moderate voice at times, and not at other times - do the so called moderates have ONE association that represents their views to deal with the loud voices from the so called extremists?
I recall there was a guy called Iqbal Sacranie (sp?) put forward as a spokesman in years gone by.
Just found a mention on Wiki.I recall there was a guy called Iqbal Sacranie (sp?) put forward as a spokesman in years gone by.
Sir Iqbal Abdul Karim Mussain Sacranie, OBE (born Malawi, 1951) served as Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) until June 2006. He arrived in UK in 1969. He was founding Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain (established 1997), and served four further years as Secretary General from 2002 to 2004 and 2004 to 2006. He was honoured with an Officer of the Order of the British Empire (OBE) in 1999, and was Knighted by the Queen in 2005.[1]
On January 3, 2006, Sacranie told BBC Radio 4's PM programme that he believes homosexuality is "not acceptable", and denounced same-sex civil partnerships as "harmful". He said that bringing in gay marriage did "not augur well" for building the foundations of society.[2][3][4] He also stated, referring to Salman Rushdie, shortly after the fatwa by Iranian religious leader Ayatollah Khomeini, “Death, perhaps, is a bit too easy for him his mind must be tormented for the rest of his life unless he asks for forgiveness to Almighty Allah.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yes, I think you make a good point there. Jesus never killed anyone, but from what we see in the qur'an and hadith, it seems Muhammad was a violent man, personally killing hundreds of people, beheading hundreds of jews. And he is viewed in islam as the perfect example to follow. This must have an influence on things. But we don't tend see muslims we know running around beheading people, although we have seen muslims with placards calling for the beheading of those who are rude about islam. And I think most, well probably the vast majority of human decapitations in recent years have been carried out by muslims.When I lived in muslim countries life seemed pretty normal and no one I knew had their head cut off. But I think all the beheadings carried out by extremists are clearly inspired by the example of the religion's founder.
kuzushi said:
Yes, I think you make a good point there. Jesus never killed anyone, but from what we see in the qur'an and hadith, it seems Muhammad was a violent man, personally killing hundreds of people, beheading hundreds of jews. And he is viewed in islam as the perfect example to follow. This must have an influence on things. But we don't tend see muslims we know running around beheading people, although we have seen muslims with placards calling for the beheading of those who are rude about islam. And I think most, well probably the vast majority of human decapitations in recent years have been carried out by muslims.
When I lived in muslim countries life seemed pretty normal and no one I knew had their head cut off. But I think all the beheadings carried out by extremists are clearly inspired by the example of the religion's founder.
I don't think you've read any Islamic history and clearly know nothing about it. The prophet was not a violent man, he was however, a man of his times, where there was much conflict in the region and he and his followers were subjected to much violent persecution which they resisted. He did not 'personally behead hundreds of jews' that is sheer hysterical nonsense that you've made up to support your argument. When I lived in muslim countries life seemed pretty normal and no one I knew had their head cut off. But I think all the beheadings carried out by extremists are clearly inspired by the example of the religion's founder.
968 said:
kuzushi said:
Yes, I think you make a good point there. Jesus never killed anyone, but from what we see in the qur'an and hadith, it seems Muhammad was a violent man, personally killing hundreds of people, beheading hundreds of jews. And he is viewed in islam as the perfect example to follow. This must have an influence on things. But we don't tend see muslims we know running around beheading people, although we have seen muslims with placards calling for the beheading of those who are rude about islam. And I think most, well probably the vast majority of human decapitations in recent years have been carried out by muslims.
When I lived in muslim countries life seemed pretty normal and no one I knew had their head cut off. But I think all the beheadings carried out by extremists are clearly inspired by the example of the religion's founder.
I don't think you've read any Islamic history and clearly know nothing about it. The prophet was not a violent man, he was however, a man of his times, where there was much conflict in the region and he and his followers were subjected to much violent persecution which they resisted. He did not 'personally behead hundreds of jews' that is sheer hysterical nonsense that you've made up to support your argument. When I lived in muslim countries life seemed pretty normal and no one I knew had their head cut off. But I think all the beheadings carried out by extremists are clearly inspired by the example of the religion's founder.
968 said:
I don't think you've read any Islamic history and clearly know nothing about it. The prophet was not a violent man, he was however, a man of his times, where there was much conflict in the region and he and his followers were subjected to much violent persecution which they resisted. He did not 'personally behead hundreds of jews' that is sheer hysterical nonsense that you've made up to support your argument.
You're right that I am no expert on islamic history. Perhaps I misunderstood, but I thought Muhammad did on occasion cut his enemies heads off with his own hands. Isn't there a hadith about it?kuzushi said:
You're right that I am no expert on islamic history. Perhaps I misunderstood, but I thought Muhammad did on occasion cut his enemies heads off with his own hands. Isn't there a hadith about it?
No, he did not 'cut his enemies heads off' in some ritualistic murder. Hadith is unreliable at best and at worst, nonsensical. It represents a third (or even more distant) party's interpretation of events or sayings of the prophet. It is not a reliable historical record. The prophet was involved in some large battles, and fought in those battles and I'm sure dispatches enemy combatants, but he did not gleefully murder 'hundreds of jews' that's just propogandist nonsense.kuzushi said:
At the very least I think we can say he ordered the beheading of hundreds of Jews in Medina. It's not unreasonable to say that someone who orders the death of hundreds of men and boys has blood on their hands, surely?
Google is an amazing thing isn't it? I'm sure you've been feverishly googling and I think you're referring to the Banu Qurayza, who were involved in an uprising, which was part of an ongoing conflict. The group were besieged and accounts of the events are highly variable, in terms of what happened. Some historians suggest that many of the men were executed for treason. Other accounts dispute this record of events. What is clear, however, and undeniable is that there was much conflict in that area, much political dispute and consequent fighting. There is no dispute that Mohammed was both a spiritual and military leader of his people, but you're characterisation of a violent psychopath is highly misleading and in fact false.
Countdown said:
@Kuzushi
You referred earlier to the Jizya tax imposed by Muslims on non-Muslims as part of their plans for world domination. Did you find any Islamic countries where this is being implemented?
Just wondered....
We have a lot of Egyptian Christian refugees in our town and one of them said something about it. I've read something about it going on in parts of Taliban controlled Pakistan.You referred earlier to the Jizya tax imposed by Muslims on non-Muslims as part of their plans for world domination. Did you find any Islamic countries where this is being implemented?
Just wondered....
968 said:
There is no dispute that Mohammed was both a spiritual and military leader of his people, but you're characterisation of a violent psychopath is highly misleading and in fact false.
Time for a new & updated Koran to reflect what Islam is all about, today?Edited by Mermaid on Wednesday 10th October 17:54
Mermaid said:
Time for a new & updated Koran to reflect what Islam is all abut today?
Yes and no. Hadith is not the Koran, and should be interpreted with caution. There are people who attempt to interpret the Koran in light of current technology and issues. There hasn't been a renaissance, as such, recently however. Indeed, one could argue that the renaissance happened in the 12-1400s which were a golden age of philosophy, mathematics, art and science in the middle east. However political and territorial disputes prevented this from developing and religious thought did not also perhaps develop in concert. If one reads about some of the characters of the time, their insight was quite amazing. The problem currently is that like in all political situations, the argument is dominated by the extremists and the politicians, both of whom are utter 
s. The thinkers and moderates don't get to voice their opinions adequately, though people try.968 said:
Google is an amazing thing isn't it? I'm sure you've been feverishly googling and I think you're referring to the Banu Qurayza, who were involved in an uprising, which was part of an ongoing conflict. The group were besieged and accounts of the events are highly variable, in terms of what happened. Some historians suggest that many of the men were executed for treason. Other accounts dispute this record of events. What is clear, however, and undeniable is that there was much conflict in that area, much political dispute and consequent fighting. There is no dispute that Mohammed was both a spiritual and military leader of his people, but you're characterisation of a violent psychopath is highly misleading and in fact false.
How do you know it's false? You've just said that accounts of the events are highly variable. Anyway, at least you seem to agree with me that the vast majority of human decapitations in recent years have been carried out by muslims.968 said:
.. The problem currently is that like in all political situations, the argument is dominated by the extremists and the politicians, both of whom are utter s. The thinkers and moderates don't get to voice their opinions adequately, though people try.
I believe Islam needs a very good marketing campaign - do you feel the image is tainted/misunderstood/feared?s. The thinkers and moderates don't get to voice their opinions adequately, though people try.kuzushi said:
At the very least I think we can say he ordered the beheading of hundreds of Jews in Medina. It's not unreasonable to say that someone who orders the death of hundreds of men and boys has blood on their hands, surely?
No he didn't. He didn't because he does not exsist! Islam, Christianity, Catholism, Budism and the like are all made up fairytales that have morphed into a false faith in there being "something else" from the days that the powers that be used fear as a way of controlling the masses. Religion is crap and if you are thick or scared enough to follow one then you have my sympathy.
In short, there is no god.
kuzushi said:
How do you know it's false? You've just said that accounts of the events are highly variable. Anyway, at least you seem to agree with me that the vast majority of human decapitations in recent years have been carried out by muslims.
I have not agreed with you in any regard about such a thing, clearly it seems you like to invent facts to suit your bizarre posts. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff