Israeli

[S 8 GRN]

AndStilliRise said:

The jews I know seem to want more money for working less. Unfortunate but that is what I see.

And Dave Whelan joins the debate. Idiot.

[JensenA]

Grumfutock said:

OK so lets cut to the chase. This is for zuby, Jensen, Fake finger and countdown.

Let us suppose that a different government wins the next and up and coming Israeli election. Let us also suppose that they instigate a wave of retreats back to the Oslo agreement borders. All settlers are removed, all military are remove, in short there are no Israelis left inside Palestine outside of the agreed peace treaty.

Now do you honestly think that once that has been done that Hamas, Fatah and the local Arab countries would just give up violence, they will all accept Israel's right to exist and everyone will just get on?

If that is the case could you kindly explain why, bearing in mind it has never happened in the past, ever, so why now?

I think that would be a very good start. Israeli policy against Palestine promotes a hatred of Israel, and that hatred, and frustration drives people to acts of terrorism. Those acts of terror are not committed by people whose sole purpose for the attack is to bring down the state of Israel.

You 'think' like an Israeli politician, and it is those thoughts and beliefs, that are the main reason why this conflict will continue.

[Funkycoldribena]

Grumfutock said:

OK so lets cut to the chase. This is for zuby, Jensen, Fake finger and countdown.

Let us suppose that a different government wins the next and up and coming Israeli election. Let us also suppose that they instigate a wave of retreats back to the Oslo agreement borders. All settlers are removed, all military are remove, in short there are no Israelis left inside Palestine outside of the agreed peace treaty.

Now do you honestly think that once that has been done that Hamas, Fatah and the local Arab countries would just give up violence, they will all accept Israel's right to exist and everyone will just get on?

If that is the case could you kindly explain why, bearing in mind it has never happened in the past, ever, so why now?

If Israel made an Island and evacuated I guarantee missiles would still be fired at them.It's about hatred,nothing else.

[Alpinestars]

Funkycoldribena said:

If Israel made an Island and evacuated I guarantee missiles would still be fired at them.It's about hatred,nothing else.

If it's about hatred and nothing else, why does that hatred exist?

[skyrover]

Alpinestars said:

Funkycoldribena said:

If Israel made an Island and evacuated I guarantee missiles would still be fired at them.It's about hatred,nothing else.

If it's about hatred and nothing else, why does that hatred exist?

Isaac and Ishmael ultimately.

The Jews are descendants of Abraham’s son Isaac. The Arabs are descendants of Abraham’s son Ishmael. With Ishmael being the son of a slave woman and Isaac being the promised son who would inherit the blessings of Abraham.

Of course both sides view things slightly differently

[Grumfutock]

JensenA said:

I think that would be a very good start. Israeli policy against Palestine promotes a hatred of Israel, and that hatred, and frustration drives people to acts of terrorism. Those acts of terror are not committed by people whose sole purpose for the attack is to bring down the state of Israel.

You 'think' like an Israeli politician, and it is those thoughts and beliefs, that are the main reason why this conflict will continue.

See now that is what I expected, you don't answer the question. What a surprise! All you want to do his spew rhetoric and slam Israel.

Do you not think that firing rockets in to Israel, bombings, shootings, kidnappings etc also spreads the same hate, the same desire for revenge amongst Israeli's?

Oh and FYI I think like a realist because I have seen and had to clean up the mess that you hip and trendy, liberal, tree hugging idiots cause with your demands for capitulation and turn the other cheek!

Utter horse st!

[Grumfutock]

Funkycoldribena said:

If Israel made an Island and evacuated I guarantee missiles would still be fired at them.It's about hatred,nothing else.

My view point and opinion exactly. If Israel built said Island in the Med and moved there some would claim it was Arabic and Palestinian sea they were in!!!

[Blib]

AndStilliRise said:

The jews I know seem to want more money for working less. Unfortunate but that is what I see.

Don't tell me. Some of your best friends are Jews.



Oh and you'd prefer to work longer hours for less money.

Edited by Blib on Monday 15th December 19:40

[Grumfutock]

AndStilliRise said:

The jews I know seem to want more money for working less. Unfortunate but that is what I see.

And you had the temerity to call me a fool! You sir are a fking idiot!

Kindly change your name to Alf Garnett immediately.

[TheRealFingers99]

Grumfutock said:

OK so lets cut to the chase. This is for zuby, Jensen, Fake finger and countdown.

Let us suppose that a different government wins the next and up and coming Israeli election. Let us also suppose that they instigate a wave of retreats back to the Oslo agreement borders. All settlers are removed, all military are remove, in short there are no Israelis left inside Palestine outside of the agreed peace treaty.

Now do you honestly think that once that has been done that Hamas, Fatah and the local Arab countries would just give up violence, they will all accept Israel's right to exist and everyone will just get on?

If that is the case could you kindly explain why, bearing in mind it has never happened in the past, ever, so why now?

I don't think a 2 state solution is really viable, let alone the best option.

But:

These are not retreats (to even couch them in militaristic terms is to loose the game) and they would not happen in one go.

I see no threats from outside. Egypt is your ally, Jordan might want the West Bank, but that ain't yours anyway and they can be told to bugger off. Syria is in the middle of a civil war, so you can give the Golan to the Druze.(Yay! Buffer Zone!) Lebanon isn't going to invade Israel (too busy with Al Nusra and ISIS). Hezbollah has put Israel on the back burner.

You are a well equipped, competently trooped, military power, generally ranked as !st in ME. The only people who could do you harm are Iran (occupied elsewhere) and Turkey (currently NATO member). You could defeat either in a couple of days (indeed, I'd bet you could defeat Turkey in a couple of hours.) Saudi won't annoy the US.

If the residual packets of an ever dwindling Hamas present perceived problems, just call in the UN. They can train up the PA and police Jerusalem and the formerly occupied territories. After all, it's what they're there for.

Why hasn't it happened before? Israeli terrorism (assassination) and the grand Zionist plan. Only one Israeli goverment has seriously made peace moves -- we know what happened then.

Again, I see a one state solution as more viable, but you didn't ask that question!

[Grumfutock]

TheRealFingers99 said:

I don't think a 2 state solution is really viable, let alone the best option.

But:

These are not retreats (to even couch them in militaristic terms is to loose the game) and they would not happen in one go.

I see no threats from outside. Egypt is your ally, Jordan might want the West Bank, but that ain't yours anyway and they can be told to bugger off. Syria is in the middle of a civil war, so you can give the Golan to the Druze.(Yay! Buffer Zone!) Lebanon isn't going to invade Israel (too busy with Al Nusra and ISIS). Hezbollah has put Israel on the back burner.

You are a well equipped, competently trooped, military power, generally ranked as !st in ME. The only people who could do you harm are Iran (occupied elsewhere) and Turkey (currently NATO member). You could defeat either in a couple of days (indeed, I'd bet you could defeat Turkey in a couple of hours.) Saudi won't annoy the US.

If the residual packets of an ever dwindling Hamas present perceived problems, just call in the UN. They can train up the PA and police Jerusalem and the formerly occupied territories. After all, it's what they're there for.

Why hasn't it happened before? Israeli terrorism (assassination) and the grand Zionist plan. Only one Israeli goverment has seriously made peace moves -- we know what happened then.

Again, I see a one state solution as more viable, but you didn't ask that question!

Well I thought I set out the scenario fairly simplistically but you have avoided the question entirely.

OK so that is 2 out of 4 that cant answer it.

[TheRealFingers99]

AndStilliRise said:

The jews I know seem to want more money for working less. Unfortunate but that is what I see.

We all want more money for working less!

The hardest working people I ever met were Hungarian Jews: they even showed hardened Poles up!

[TheRealFingers99]

Grumfutock said:

Well I thought I set out the scenario fairly simplistically but you have avoided the question entirely.

OK so that is 2 out of 4 that cant answer it.

What bit didn't I answer?

Currently there is no viable external threat. To be honest, since 1980 there never was even the remotest one.

This is typical Israeli bks -- "the threat is too great, we must keep with the status quo, poor little Israel, we are so weak". And so on.

[Grumfutock]

TheRealFingers99 said:

Grumfutock said:

Well I thought I set out the scenario fairly simplistically but you have avoided the question entirely.

OK so that is 2 out of 4 that cant answer it.

What bit didn't I answer?

Currently there is no viable external threat. To be honest, since 1980 there never was even the remotest one.

This is typical Israeli bks -- "the threat is too great, we must keep with the status quo, poor little Israel, we are so weak". And so on.

Which bit didn't you answer? Errrrrr ALL OF IT!!!!

Once again then and I will change it to numbers to make it easier for you:

1. Do you honestly think that once that has been done that Hamas, Fatah and the local Arab countries would just give up violence?
2. They will all accept Israel's right to exist?
3. Everyone will just get on?
4. Why?

[TheRealFingers99]

Grumfutock said:

Which bit didn't you answer? Errrrrr ALL OF IT!!!!

Once again then and I will change it to numbers to make it easier for you:

1. Do you honestly think that once that has been done that Hamas, Fatah and the local Arab countries would just give up violence?
2. They will all accept Israel's right to exist?
3. Everyone will just get on?
4. Why?

1. Fatah will be part of the peace process. Hamas will either wilt or (more likely) be zapped. Again, if this is such an extreme worry to Israel, call in the UN from the start. There is no viable external threat. You are no.1 in the ME. Accept it and rejoice! You have the Golan as a buffer zone, and should S.Lebanon pose an issue, Hezbollah will cheerfully take on Nusra and ISIS.

2. Fatah already have, surely? Syria doesn't exist. PYD/YPG/YPJ will accept Israel (and set up an embassy) as soon as Israel allows. FSA are your chums. Iraqi Kurdistan sells you oil. Lebanon already has, I think, as have Egypt and Jordan. The external situation can only be improved by the internal one. Hamas will wilt. Most of this "not recognise Israel's right to exist" stuff is just tired old rhetoric anyway. ISIS and Nusra remain an external threat, but one that everyone in the ME shares, including Fatah, Hamas and Hezbollah. External threats can also unite.

3. I don't see why not. It may be rocky at first, but nutty settlers aside I can't see any reason why it shouldn't immediately be better than it is.

4. ? Not entirely sure what you mean? But as soon as the Palestinians have something to loose (and I think they'd have more to loose in a one state solution, but, hey) why not? Once you stop seeing people as your jailers, you tend to stop hating them.

Now, heval, they're not the answers you want, but I think I've answered all your questions. Maybe Isaac Herzog or Ilan Pappe can fill in any gaps?


Emergency Appeal for Sinjar and Rojava

Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Monday 15th December 20:52

Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Monday 15th December 21:42

[TheRealFingers99]

"Our struggle for liberty and democracy has continued for decades. But we have suffered from brutal oppression, genocide and ethnic cleansing since the beginning of the 20th century. Until recently, we have not had the chance to live a free and dignified life that is commensurate with our culture and values. However, following the radical changes in the Middle East, which led to the destabilisation of regional dictatorships, we have found a window of opportunity to organise our people and societies. We have tried to establish a democratic system that is compatible with our rich culture and diverse heritage in Mesopotamia. Our cultural and ethnic diversity is our pride. Our unity is our strength. Therefore, we aimed to unite all constituents of Rojava: Kurds, Arabs, Turkmen, Assyrians, Muslims, Yezidis and Christians, in order to establish a democratic system that coincides with our diversity. We also believe that this system can be a role model to follow not only in Syria, but in the entire Middle East. A system that consolidates unity while preserving ethnic and cultural diversity and differences."

Salih Muslim, Co-president of PYD to 11th EUTCC Conference [emphasis mine]

Full text


Emergency Appeal for Sinjar and Rojava

[Blib]

Grumfutock said:

AndStilliRise said:

The jews I know seem to want more money for working less. Unfortunate but that is what I see.

And you had the temerity to call me a fool! You sir are a fking idiot!

Kindly change your name to Alf Garnett immediately.

Who was played by a Jew. He probably didn't try toooo hard, though, did he ASIR?

[Alpinestars]

skyrover said:

Isaac and Ishmael ultimately.

The Jews are descendants of Abraham’s son Isaac. The Arabs are descendants of Abraham’s son Ishmael. With Ishmael being the son of a slave woman and Isaac being the promised son who would inherit the blessings of Abraham.

Of course both sides view things slightly differently

So what's the manifestation of this hatred in Golders Green, Prestwich, the US, Stamford Hill etc?

[skyrover]

Alpinestars said:

skyrover said:

Isaac and Ishmael ultimately.

The Jews are descendants of Abrahamâ??s son Isaac. The Arabs are descendants of Abrahamâ??s son Ishmael. With Ishmael being the son of a slave woman and Isaac being the promised son who would inherit the blessings of Abraham.

Of course both sides view things slightly differently

So what's the manifestation of this hatred in Golders Green, Prestwich, the US, Stamford Hill etc?

Hate because it's been ingrained in the culture for so long there is no longer any true rationality.

Jews and Arab's are the same people, the same family from the same part of the world. Genetically they are nigh on identical.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/742430.stm

[JensenA]

Grumfutock said:

JensenA said:

I think that would be a very good start. Israeli policy against Palestine promotes a hatred of Israel, and that hatred, and frustration drives people to acts of terrorism. Those acts of terror are not committed by people whose sole purpose for the attack is to bring down the state of Israel.

You 'think' like an Israeli politician, and it is those thoughts and beliefs, that are the main reason why this conflict will continue.

See now that is what I expected, you don't answer the question. What a surprise! All you want to do his spew rhetoric and slam Israel.

Do you not think that firing rockets in to Israel, bombings, shootings, kidnappings etc also spreads the same hate, the same desire for revenge amongst Israeli's?

Oh and FYI I think like a realist because I have seen and had to clean up the mess that you hip and trendy, liberal, tree hugging idiots cause with your demands for capitulation and turn the other cheek!

Utter horse st!

You are just a friggin a$$hole GF. Not for your opinions, but for the way in which you reply to posts. Almost all of your posts are insulting one liners in response to some one who has dared to express a different opinion. And I am far from being a liberal tree hugging idiot, but statements like that sum you up perfectly.