US Elections 2012 Obama v Romney Official Thread
Discussion
davepoth said:
Regardless of the tax rates, businesses will go to the USA because it is still the biggest market in the world, and it's quite right that the government should milk that for all it is worth. Racing to the bottom on corporate tax rates is a stupid idea - just ask Ireland.
Corporate tax rates were at the same level through 8 years of Dubya. He didn't see fit to cut them but Obama's "holding back business' by not cutting them now! Not much sense being made there. The time to cut corp tax rates may well come but to do it in the aftermath of the worst economic meltdown since the 1920's when tax revenues are down would be crass. And by the look of the DJI corporate America isn't hurting too much. Maybe a corporate tax hike for the biggest businesses would be a more sensible move? Maybe a windfall tax on big oil whose profits are at an all time high while we are all being gouged at the pump would be appropriate? R.E.M. sticks it to FOX News.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/09/07/r-e-m-orders...
“We have little or no respect for their puff adder brand of reportage,” lead singer Michael Stipe said. “Our music does not belong there.”
Nicely put Michael.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/09/07/r-e-m-orders...
“We have little or no respect for their puff adder brand of reportage,” lead singer Michael Stipe said. “Our music does not belong there.”
Nicely put Michael.Jimbeaux said:
unrepentant said:
davepoth said:
Regardless of the tax rates, businesses will go to the USA because it is still the biggest market in the world, and it's quite right that the government should milk that for all it is worth. Racing to the bottom on corporate tax rates is a stupid idea - just ask Ireland.
Corporate tax rates were at the same level through 8 years of Dubya. He didn't see fit to cut them but Obama's "holding back business' by not cutting them now! Not much sense being made there. The time to cut corp tax rates may well come but to do it in the aftermath of the worst economic meltdown since the 1920's when tax revenues are down would be crass. And by the look of the DJI corporate America isn't hurting too much. Maybe a corporate tax hike for the biggest businesses would be a more sensible move? Maybe a windfall tax on big oil whose profits are at an all time high while we are all being gouged at the pump would be appropriate? Of every $50 you spend at the pump $30.75 goes straight to the oil company. In the USA Tax (state or federal) is only $6 of that $50. In Europe the position is obviously very different with the government taking the lions share. When gas prices are high everyone hurts. The oil companies often artificially starve the market by refining less and pushing up demand and thus prices.
Sageworks, a financial information company, performed a financial statement analysis of privately held companies in the oil and natural gas production industry (NAICS code 211111) and found that generally, profitability of those companies has tracked the price of gasoline. Sageworks studies have shown that oil company profits rise in direct proportion to the price at the pump.
https://www.sageworksinc.com/pressroom.aspx?articl...
Countdown said:
I've trawled back to page 11 in this thread and I can't find the KKK comment. If u can provide a linky I'll happily comment. Unlike some I don't try to avoid giving straight answers 
ETA you also stated that the phrase "white coffin dodgers" had racist connotations. I know you're "not taking sides" but could you perhaps explain how?
I have never made a remotely racist comment unless people consider it racist to point out that the GOP is principally supported by older white people. It's a fact so hardly anti white racism!ETA you also stated that the phrase "white coffin dodgers" had racist connotations. I know you're "not taking sides" but could you perhaps explain how?
What I did do was point out that the other bloke is a racist. Because he is. And I previously posted some of his racist comments. The standard response from a racist is to try and deflect by accusing the other person of the same and that is the tactic he uses. Meanwhile he makes inflamatory comments such as "the vast majority of gun crime is black on black" which is untrue, racist and designed to be misleading and incendiary.
turbobloke said:
unrepentant said:
The economy is always better under the republicans of course........
Out of interest, is there similar data on how many of each set of jobs created are still around?Looking at those numbers reminded me of Winky expanding the public sector in the UK, an impressive tally of non-jobs was created but they were living on borrowed time and borrowed money and are now gone or going fast.
The situation must be different stateside.
davepoth said:
Guam said:
unrepentant said:
Romney and Ryan think this is a bad thing!
Laudable now who is it affordable to?Not the american Economy thats clear <unless printing fiat money is ok>
Without health insurance that kid could get pneumonia. Parents rush the kid to ER where they end up in ICU for a week at a cost of $100,000 or so. that emergency treatment is paid for by the hospital, but effectively it gets rolled into the cost of Federal disbursements under the various schemes. So for that particular child, and the evidence suggests an awful lot of children, the cost saving is massive.
TheHeretic said:
I've never quite understood why they will happily spend almost a trillion dollars on military, etc, but shudder at the thought of having a healthcare system. Does not compute.
I actually agree with the concept of personal responsibility in providing for your own healthcare. However, the situation at present is bonkers on a number of counts. Insurers should not be able to refuse anyone or impose huge unaffordable premiums on them because they have pre existing conditions. Even John McCain agreed with that in 2008. There should be a balanced market so that healthcare is afordable and not purely a profit driver for business. The amount the US spends on healthcare is way out of proportion with every other 1st world country and that is because there are huge profit centres at every stage of the process. Healthcare is a responsibility so everyone who can afford to do so should take responsibility for proving their own insurance, as long as that insurance is affordable. Laughably that is the issue that exercised the GOP the most, the "personal mandate". I would have thought the anti welfare, anti scrounger GOP would be hugely in favour of not allowing people to be feckless, refuse to buy insurance and then expect everyone else to pay when they get sick. But no! The mandate is unconstitutional and should not have been allowed! Of course a good number of republicans would be happy to see people without insurance just not get any treatment and die........
The ACA will eventually fix a lot of the wrongs in the system. It won't be perfect but it will be better.
It was noted last week that Romney made no mention whatsoever of the troops currently serving in Afghanistan and elsewhere when making his acceptance speech. A huge faux pas and pretty unforgiveable at a time when so many are risking their lives in a war zone.
Today he was asked about it whilst being interviewed by FOX. His reply was astonishing.
"When you give a speech you don't go through a laundry list, you talk about the things you think are important."
Wow. So now the troops know where they stand with Romney. They are simply unimportant. The man who thinks that "corporations are people" clearly doesn't feel the same way about the brave men and women who serve. He's proved that he's out of touch with ordinary people and now he's shown that he's utterly unfit to be commander in chief. But what else should we expect from a draft dodger like Mitt?
Today he was asked about it whilst being interviewed by FOX. His reply was astonishing.
"When you give a speech you don't go through a laundry list, you talk about the things you think are important."
Wow. So now the troops know where they stand with Romney. They are simply unimportant. The man who thinks that "corporations are people" clearly doesn't feel the same way about the brave men and women who serve. He's proved that he's out of touch with ordinary people and now he's shown that he's utterly unfit to be commander in chief. But what else should we expect from a draft dodger like Mitt?
Captain Cadillac said:
unrepentant said:
The DJI is pushing 13300 this morning. It was 8122 on the day of Obama's inauguration, an increase of 64%.
Contrast that with 8 years of GWB. The DJI was at 10780 on the morning that he took the oath. By the end of his 2nd term it was down by more than 24%!
Gasoline was also $2 a gallon Contrast that with 8 years of GWB. The DJI was at 10780 on the morning that he took the oath. By the end of his 2nd term it was down by more than 24%!
nearly 800 more Chrysler dealers still existed
College tuition hadn't gone up over 20%
health care costs hadn't gone up over 20%
and our debt hadn't gone up 50%.
Oh, and Israel was a close ally of ours in the middle east.
Trade Unions didn't own a huge chunk of a large corporation.
Our President wasn't meddling in states rights.
We had higher employment.
We had more manufacturing jobs
We were planning on opening a crucial oil pipeline.
Of course, as we all know, there's lots of other examples that we could mention. Still, it's fun to see a 1 preventer so passionately support Obama. Carry on.
Chrysler has just paid back the bailout that Obama gave it that allowed it to stay in business. Under McCain there would be no Chrysler today.
My healthcare premiums have gone down. If yours have gone up you need to change your insurer.
Government spending has increased at the slowest rate for 60 years under Obama.
Israel is still a close ally but knows it doesn't have carte blanche under this thinking president.
Some states rights need changing.
This president inherited the worst economic situation since the 20's from the previous failed republican government and is turning it round.
The pipeline will be built but without destroying the environment, a triumphant win win.
On the flip side;
We were in 2 wars, we're now only in one and will be out of there soon too!
Osama Bin Laden was alive!
We had the appalling homophobic "don't ask don't tell" policy!
The Lilly Ledbetter fair pay act didn't exist!
47 million people had no healthcare!
We were in the middle of a long period of private sector job losses, now we've had 30 consecutive months of private sector job growth!
The auto industry was in crisis!
The post 9/11 G.I. bill didn't exist, 7 years after 9/11!
Small businesses had not received the 18 tax cuts that Obama has given them!
etc.........
More good news for democracy. The Ohio sec of state who had tried to prevent voters from voting early (early voters in Ohio have a pesky habit of voting democrat ) has been told to back down by a federal judge.
http://communitypress.cincinnati.com/article/AB/20...
) has been told to back down by a federal judge.http://communitypress.cincinnati.com/article/AB/20...
Latest gallup poll has Obama 3 points up. His job approval number is up too. He should get a boost out of the convention next week although the campaign are telling supporters not to expect it.
Romney's dismissal of the troops in Afghanistan as unimportant won't do him any favours though....
Romney's dismissal of the troops in Afghanistan as unimportant won't do him any favours though....
Countdown said:
unrepentant said:
Latest gallup poll has Obama 3 points up. His job approval number is up too. He should get a boost out of the convention next week although the campaign are telling supporters not to expect it.
Romney's dismissal of the troops in Afghanistan as unimportant won't do him any favours though....
3 points doesn't sound like an awful lot (IIRC Dems got a bigger boost after the DNC in 2008). The key thing is going to be getting the electorate out.Romney's dismissal of the troops in Afghanistan as unimportant won't do him any favours though....
Captain Cadillac said:
unrepentant said:
Rasmussen, the pollsters who always buck the trend and show Romney ahead when all others show Obama have published their poll this morning. Obama by 2.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_romney_vs_obama-1171.htmlGallup has Obama ahead by 3, and Rasmussen has Obama ahead by 2
Washington Post poll has Romney up, CNN has them tied.
Right now they are both within the margin of error an any of these polls so IMO it's too close to call.
I said above it is early and will change. I agree it is too close to call at the moment. I'd rather be ahead though...
Jimbeaux said:
Screw you punk. You made the KKK reference without having any such evidence. You say "I am a racist" as if you have a fact crystal ball. You based that off of me posting cold hard facts from the Dept. of Justice statistics. You are void of character little man.
PMSL. The man that claims that "the vast majority" of shootings are carried out by African Americans and compares the NAACP to the BNP isn't a racist. Right. You're delusional as well as classless. Countdown said:
Agreed. I think MR will win unless Obama can get the grassroots out to vote. He'll need a lot more motivational speeches if he's going to do that.
The race will come down to a relatively small number of voters in a relaively small number of states. The votes of suburban women in 3 or 4 states could end up being the difference. I still think that Obama will win the popular vote by 6%. If he does that he will carry the swing states and retain the presidency.Countdown said:
On the RCP website it currently has Obama leading in 5 polls, tie in 1 and Romney leading on 1. The average lead for Obama is 1.3. It's too close to call but, given the economic situation, it says a lot about Mitt that he's still struggling......
I always look at RCP. The polls I quoted were the latest and included Rasmussen, who alone have consistently had Romney ahead but now have Obama ahead. Indeed, Rasmussen is the only poll that Limbaugh recognises, the rest are all "fixed" apparently. No doubt Rasmussen will be condemned as well now..... As you say the latest polls all have Obama ahead apart from the CNN tie, you have to go back to the ABC poll of two weeks ago to find one that has Romney ahead. The poll of polls is interesting but for trends you always need to look at the here and now.
This graph has been posted before but it's worth posting again. When President Obama took offer job losses were at a peak. You don't just turn the tap on, it takes time to reverse the trend. We have had 30 months of growth now in the private sector and that's an achievement. Had it not been for the stimulus that graph would look very different, the bars would all be below the line.
It's true that the public sector has shed 600,000 or so jobs in the same period. But can you imagine what the GOP would be saying if it hadn't.........
I was listening to NPR this morning on the way to work and they were saying that there are many hundreds of thousands of vacancies at the moment. What is needed are jobseekers with the right skills and that is the challenge.
It's true that the public sector has shed 600,000 or so jobs in the same period. But can you imagine what the GOP would be saying if it hadn't.........
I was listening to NPR this morning on the way to work and they were saying that there are many hundreds of thousands of vacancies at the moment. What is needed are jobseekers with the right skills and that is the challenge.
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