Why is Cannabis still illegal?
Discussion
Sway said:
Bulls
t. Utter, complete, total, bullst.
The cuckoo land is you - consistently and completely ignoring the fking examples that exist, not your fantasy 'concerns' that actually have nothing to do with legalisation, and are proven with experiential evidence to be mitigated heavily through legalisation.
Sorry, but your questions and apparent desire for debate is a mask for a bigoted and entrenched view that ultimately (regardless of the conversation about recreational use) means that people suffer needlessly due to your puritanism.
I have a view, the fact it’s different to yours is great isn’t it? Why should people have your views foisted on them?t. Utter, complete, total, bullst. The cuckoo land is you - consistently and completely ignoring the f
king examples that exist, not your fantasy 'concerns' that actually have nothing to do with legalisation, and are proven with experiential evidence to be mitigated heavily through legalisation. Sorry, but your questions and apparent desire for debate is a mask for a bigoted and entrenched view that ultimately (regardless of the conversation about recreational use) means that people suffer needlessly due to your puritanism.
Sway said:
My views let people have choice, and improved education/support.
They let people such as the woman I love the most in life live as pain free (and more importantly) side effect free as it's possible to be - for significantly less cost, time and resources from the NHS.
My views are supported by evidence, the majority of those within the police, and the majority of the medical community.
Yours have no basis in evidence. No understanding of the substance at hand.
Your views enable the immense funding of organised crime, people trafficking, murder and more. They ignore the available data.
Worse - they remove from the table the possibility that thousands with chronic illnesses could have significantly improved lives (and not 'here's as much opiates as we can stuff in you, attached is the A3 sheet of side effects - oh, and you will become truly and completely addicted').
If you're willing to accept that, I'd have no problem.
Yet instead you wrap it up in faux concern, faux 'data', unconnected issues, etc. You attempt to portray someone open to debate, whilst actually being so entrenched that you cannot even see the results of your bias.
Fair enough. I wasn’t referring at all to prescribed/medicinal use though. At all.They let people such as the woman I love the most in life live as pain free (and more importantly) side effect free as it's possible to be - for significantly less cost, time and resources from the NHS.
My views are supported by evidence, the majority of those within the police, and the majority of the medical community.
Yours have no basis in evidence. No understanding of the substance at hand.
Your views enable the immense funding of organised crime, people trafficking, murder and more. They ignore the available data.
Worse - they remove from the table the possibility that thousands with chronic illnesses could have significantly improved lives (and not 'here's as much opiates as we can stuff in you, attached is the A3 sheet of side effects - oh, and you will become truly and completely addicted').
If you're willing to accept that, I'd have no problem.
Yet instead you wrap it up in faux concern, faux 'data', unconnected issues, etc. You attempt to portray someone open to debate, whilst actually being so entrenched that you cannot even see the results of your bias.
V6 Pushfit said:
I have a view, the fact it’s different to yours is great isn’t it? Why should people have your views foisted on them?
Hmmm, the current prohibition is actually your view foisted upon everyone else, with draconian penalties thrown in. Legalisation doesn't mean you have to join in, I wouldn't either. What seems to be escaping your attention is that prohibition stops absolutely no one indulging in drugs if they want. Almost everyone I know has tried everything through to class A's, people who like it do so whenever they like; for much of the population there is no stigma to enjoying drugs at all; the only thing that would change for them is the quality of the drugs and buying it off legit tax paying business rather than murderous organised criminal gangs. technodup said:
e buy alcohol in shops, we don't seek out the local home brewer or smuggler down an alley. And they're buying it from shops in Colorado, because they've taken £250m last year in tax. So the evidence says you're wrong. Surprise surprise.
I don't think anyone's saying the black market will cease to exist, after all tobacco and alcohol are legal yet we have black markets for both. What it is almost certain to do is reduce it. Which is a good thing, surely?
I think what's happening here is the disbelievers are getting pretty desperate to justify their illogical stance, especially in the face of the various examples and general trend towards more liberal attitudes on the issue.
I might mention I’m also posting out of respect for a neighbour and a colleague who have both seen their daughters get in with the wrong crowd and disappear from life/university courtesy of the drug you want legalised so you can get it cheaper and free from stigma. I don't think anyone's saying the black market will cease to exist, after all tobacco and alcohol are legal yet we have black markets for both. What it is almost certain to do is reduce it. Which is a good thing, surely?
I think what's happening here is the disbelievers are getting pretty desperate to justify their illogical stance, especially in the face of the various examples and general trend towards more liberal attitudes on the issue.
Anyway that’s it from me so you can now rail all you like without me coming back on it. Just make sure you quote so others can read it and then if they feel the same then support it.
e30m3Mark said:
Which are factors that certainly appear likely to be present if legalised / legislated for.
Weed strengths will also most likely be a factor, as I doubt everyone would be happy with a single strain / strength and that would provide an immediate in for the black market. Tobacco is legal and I can foresee a similar situation as the one with black market cigarettes.
Tomatoes, Basil, OreganoWeed strengths will also most likely be a factor, as I doubt everyone would be happy with a single strain / strength and that would provide an immediate in for the black market. Tobacco is legal and I can foresee a similar situation as the one with black market cigarettes.
All things that take a similar amount of care in the UK to grow at home, all things that i can grow at home if I want to apply some love and care and attention
Or i can go to the supermarket and pick up some nice plump Toms or a load of basil for less effort and cheaper than I can do myself
Apparently stoners are lazy and lack drive, yet suddenly on legalisation grow houses will spring up all over the country with people creating a black market.
FYI, no one wants super strong weed really, in the same way most people don't want super strength lager, its a bit s
t and only serves one purpose, its not enjoyableIf I posted the psychologists report on my son and what it says about cannabis use and effects it would scare the living st out of some on here. Actually it probably wouldn't at all as they know it already just just choose to do more of the 'old come on in the waters lovely' routine.
The crap thats spouted about weed strengths and not 'wanting' stronger - utter bks. You tell that to an alcoholic that went from beer to wine to diamond white to vodka and ask him why.
'MH can be easily helped and theres lots of support' - more disinformation. NHS MH services are stretched beyond their limit already so the only way is to go private if you want to be seen within 3 months. See paragraph 1.
t out of some on here. Actually it probably wouldn't at all as they know it already just just choose to do more of the 'old come on in the waters lovely' routine.The crap thats spouted about weed strengths and not 'wanting' stronger - utter b
ks. You tell that to an alcoholic that went from beer to wine to diamond white to vodka and ask him why. 'MH can be easily helped and theres lots of support' - more disinformation. NHS MH services are stretched beyond their limit already so the only way is to go private if you want to be seen within 3 months. See paragraph 1.
e30m3Mark said:
The black market already exists and I was questioning the assumption that it would cease with the introduction of legislation.
There are plenty of people buying, using and enjoying stronger strains. It's most certainly prevalent here in the UK and if legislation were to apply only to weaker strains it seems likely that would be exploited.
I've gone through this once but will againThere are plenty of people buying, using and enjoying stronger strains. It's most certainly prevalent here in the UK and if legislation were to apply only to weaker strains it seems likely that would be exploited.
In the current situation in the UK, you have no choice what you buy, producers grow a crop and they are going for max strength, max yield as they want "the best" gear on the market. So you go and you pay your money and you get given weed. You may find one or 2 that offer a choice of strains but not really
There are 100's of strains, all with different strengths, effects and flavours
If you go to Amsterdam yes you can choose the strongest, but many don't
If it was legalised you would have so much choice, so people may choose the strongest as some people choose wine based on the .abv. The majority of people would make a considered choice though and you would know how it had been grown (no chemical fertilisers etc)
Its odd isnt it
I have a group of mates who from 18 all smoked it, probably about 20 people in all
Of that 20 appx 10 or so completely stopped post uni
5 or so continue socially and on occasion
5 of us are still at it
Now of that sample size I don't know a single person that has had these massive adverse effects I hear about. Also in my wider group of friends (wifes friends and friends of friends) nothing. We've had mates with alchohol issues, coke issues, gambling issues, never weed
Yet the most vehement opposer in this thread knows of plenty of people and the number grows daily
The strength thing people keep harking back to, walk into a shop in Dam and just without intro ask for the strongest weed they have and see what they say
Also while you are there, ask one of the many Coke/E dealers that habitate the canal streets for some weed and see how far you get
I have a group of mates who from 18 all smoked it, probably about 20 people in all
Of that 20 appx 10 or so completely stopped post uni
5 or so continue socially and on occasion
5 of us are still at it
Now of that sample size I don't know a single person that has had these massive adverse effects I hear about. Also in my wider group of friends (wifes friends and friends of friends) nothing. We've had mates with alchohol issues, coke issues, gambling issues, never weed
Yet the most vehement opposer in this thread knows of plenty of people and the number grows daily
The strength thing people keep harking back to, walk into a shop in Dam and just without intro ask for the strongest weed they have and see what they say
Also while you are there, ask one of the many Coke/E dealers that habitate the canal streets for some weed and see how far you get
Disastrous said:
Hmm, I think perhaps this explains a lot?
Sorry to hear, but you must see that you probably don’t have an objective view on the matter?
I still think it’s objective, I see both sides but the pro cannabis side is clutching at populist culture and ignoring the reality of the problem. Sorry to hear, but you must see that you probably don’t have an objective view on the matter?
It’s simple logic.
V6 Pushfit said:
I still think it’s objective, I see both sides but the pro cannabis side is clutching at populist culture and ignoring the reality of the problem.
It’s simple logic.
Ok lets assume you have absolute proof that Cannabis caused issues with your sonIt’s simple logic.
If it had been legal might he have been less likely to hide it from you (assuming he did) and enabled you and him to have all the facts to hand and have an open and honest conversation about it?
Sa Calobra said:
Yes because no one over users alcohol or goes for the strongest percentages or simply over drinks too much.
Do Dutch people have a problem with alcohol?
Does the UK have an issue with binging (of any type)?
I think the British mindset is excess.
Another legal poison added simply equals more people accessing the drug and with the inveiatble issues.
Very good points. Do Dutch people have a problem with alcohol?
Does the UK have an issue with binging (of any type)?
I think the British mindset is excess.
Another legal poison added simply equals more people accessing the drug and with the inveiatble issues.
I was at a Macdonalds yesterday - full of societys best getting their Sunday Roast. France has wine on Macdonalds menus and if that was the case here the whole place would have been a scene from Eastenders. Utter carnage.
e30m3Mark said:
Yet the top 5 weeds sold in Amsterdam are White Widow, Super Silver Haze, Amnesia Haze, OG Kush and Girl Scout Cookies, all of which are listed as being strong to very strong, with White Widow being one of the strongest available.
If legalised / legislated for, there may well be a number of people who'll choose their weed akin to choosing a fine wine. equally there will be many who's decision will be based on cost / strength and if the choice is medium grade legal vs super strength black market, you can see why a black market will continue.
In recent times I have worked with clients who chose synthetic weeds, such as Spice, due to it's increased strength and reduced cost, when compared to natural weed. Even when we point out that drugs like Spice are not in any way related to Cannabis they ignore the facts.
People who truly appreciate and enjoy cannabis do not move onto spice. Many of the aspects that those who truly appreciate their bud; The variance in genetics in regards to what you smell, see, taste and touch, the medicinal properties and the different types of high dependent on strain, are all stripped out. If legalised / legislated for, there may well be a number of people who'll choose their weed akin to choosing a fine wine. equally there will be many who's decision will be based on cost / strength and if the choice is medium grade legal vs super strength black market, you can see why a black market will continue.
In recent times I have worked with clients who chose synthetic weeds, such as Spice, due to it's increased strength and reduced cost, when compared to natural weed. Even when we point out that drugs like Spice are not in any way related to Cannabis they ignore the facts.
Its those people who want to get blitzed for the lowest amount possible who give spice a go. I can understand if they might have been cannabis users beforehand, but I am convinced they were going to move onto harder stuff anyway, with or without cannabis. A cannabis high is pretty tame in the grand scheme of trips, and those people who are after an all consuming intense high get bored with it very quickly.
That's why when you could until a few years ago go to to the high street and buy all the spice you wanted, people would still visit Amsterdam and try some of the strains you mentioned. Outright strength in the relevance of drugs is not the be all or end all, instead people want the complete experience like the fine wine analogy you mentioned, and enjoy the environment and choice that decriminalization offers.
The only way a black market would occur is if their was some sort strength limits that would be set far too low. Those stains you mentioned are already out there in the UK, because the cost vs strength vs yield analysis which get used to choose what gets grown and sold in the black market.
Some would continue to use the strong stains, but I suspect given the choice, many would try some potentially weaker strains that suited them better.
HustleRussell said:
Great, thanks- and at least we understand your position now (for the purposes of this thread I will charitably consider your ignorance a ‘position’)
What you mean that SC is ignorant of the detail of drugs and doesn’t live a life seemingly centred around drug usage, whilst maintaining its not addictive and risk free and wanting others to do likewise?That kind of ignorant?
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