Miserable tube drivers for Olympics

[ewenm]

You'd have thought London2012 would have agreed all this up-front as part of the costing for the bid. If they did, I wonder if either side are trying to change the agreement now (else why is it suddenly news)? If they didn't, I wonder why not (foolishness or inability to reach an agreement perhaps)?

[egor110]

Not really some people can live pretty modestly and don't rely on overtime just to keep up with there neighbours.
We used to be able to loads of regular overtime 5-6 days a week, we used to have nice cars, houses,electrical goods. The overtime was taken from us and moved to another office as proper duties so we had to adapt to the lower wage, on the plus side we now see our family, pick the kids up from school every day etc. Some things are you can't buy, just took someone taking our overtime away to make us see that.

[crankedup]

egor110 said:

You could do that, but what happens if they decide they don't want the extra overtime?
Your then stuck with people wanting transporting to the olympics but not enough trains, hence why there giving them the bonus to make sure that doesn't happen.

My daughter has chosen to take holiday entitlement during the Olympics frenzy, she tells me the transport service into London is a cattle truck market at best of times.

[Johnnytheboy]

wolves_wanderer said:

Hang on. The tube will be much busier than normal so why should the staff not get a little slice of the pie? Especially if they are being asked to work different hours and being banned from taking holiday?

We're going to be busy in the same period and have been banned from taking hols.

We're not getting any extra money and we're not striking over the fact.

Organisations have busy times and quiet times. That's work, get over it.

[wolves_wanderer]

Johnnytheboy said:

wolves_wanderer said:

Hang on. The tube will be much busier than normal so why should the staff not get a little slice of the pie? Especially if they are being asked to work different hours and being banned from taking holiday?

We're going to be busy in the same period and have been banned from taking hols.

We're not getting any extra money and we're not striking over the fact.

Organisations have busy times and quiet times. That's work, get over it.

So because you don't nobody else is allowed to?

[egor110]

Chrisw666 said:

Cab drivers only get paid for the time they work and are busy, Tube drivers get paid to drive empty trains around.

Only one of the two starts a month knowing what they will earn, only one of the two has to deal with the general public face to face. I know which job I'd pick if there was only two options and it wouldn't be the one in the car.

She must be wrong because as you can see chrisw666 sees empty tube trains all the time.

[Johnnytheboy]

wolves_wanderer said:

Johnnytheboy said:

wolves_wanderer said:

Hang on. The tube will be much busier than normal so why should the staff not get a little slice of the pie? Especially if they are being asked to work different hours and being banned from taking holiday?

We're going to be busy in the same period and have been banned from taking hols.

We're not getting any extra money and we're not striking over the fact.

Organisations have busy times and quiet times. That's work, get over it.

So because you don't nobody else is allowed to?

Read the last line again. If the tube drivers continue to be so bolshy they'll get replaced by something equally capable of doing the job some time soon.

[egor110]

Could you tell me when the tube's quiet time is?
Whenever i'm in London it's rammed full apart from 1st thing in the morning when it leaves it's garage and last thing when it's done the last station and is heading back to the garage.
Weekends now are just as busy as weekdays, so just when is there quiet time?

[wolves_wanderer]

Johnnytheboy said:

wolves_wanderer said:

Johnnytheboy said:

wolves_wanderer said:

Hang on. The tube will be much busier than normal so why should the staff not get a little slice of the pie? Especially if they are being asked to work different hours and being banned from taking holiday?

We're going to be busy in the same period and have been banned from taking hols.

We're not getting any extra money and we're not striking over the fact.

Organisations have busy times and quiet times. That's work, get over it.

So because you don't nobody else is allowed to?

Read the last line again. If the tube drivers continue to be so bolshy they'll get replaced by something equally capable of doing the job some time soon.

Some people are better at negotiating pay and conditions and have cushier jobs than you. Get over it.

[WreckedGecko]

egor110 said:

Thing is then you'll be moaning that cab drivers earn more than you and the fares are too high and they also are holding the public to ransom.
If you really want to make a stand ride a bike and pay nobody anything for transporting you across London.

Just you wait till the bike builders hear you! A BMX will be £1,000 I tells ya!

[egor110]

WreckedGecko said:

egor110 said:

Thing is then you'll be moaning that cab drivers earn more than you and the fares are too high and they also are holding the public to ransom.
If you really want to make a stand ride a bike and pay nobody anything for transporting you across London.

Just you wait till the bike builders hear you! A BMX will be £1,000 I tells ya!

We all know most on this thread blowing hot air about how good anyone who isn't either a banker or self employed have got it are never going to get off there fat asses and ride a bike;)
They'll moan, work the long hours and in the future realise they've missed there children growing up.
As i said there are some thing's you just can't buy.

[anonymous-user]

crankedup said:

egor110 said:

You could do that, but what happens if they decide they don't want the extra overtime?
Your then stuck with people wanting transporting to the olympics but not enough trains, hence why there giving them the bonus to make sure that doesn't happen.

My daughter has chosen to take holiday entitlement during the Olympics frenzy, she tells me the transport service into London is a cattle truck market at best of times.

I don't think it will be anywhere near as bad as most people are making out.

[valiant1]

St John Smythe said:

I don't think it will be anywhere near as bad as most people are making out.

Well, considering they have estimated it will take around about 30-45 minutes to get from the entrance of London Bridge station to the jubilee line platform let alone get on a train when there's a major games day, I think there will be signifiant disruption. Add in any delays and you will be royally fked.

[egor110]

You only work for them though, so what would you know

[turbobloke]

Chrisw666 said:

egor110 said:

The point your missing is they wouldn't have to strike, they could all just work there contracted hours and say no thanks i don't want the overtime.
They wouldn't of gone on strike but then you'd all be on here moaning you couldn't get to the olympics or moaning the tube drivers won't do overtime.
Maybe the drivers would actually like to watch the olympics?

From reading that I can assume nothing other than the bonus is a bribe to stop them striking, and the change in terms and conditions is to stop them striking by proxy and refusing overtime.

It would take a very off person to refuse to work overtime when the cost of living is rising much faster than wages.

Don't know about you Chrisw666 but after reading all this heartwarming stuff about the altruism of our tube drivers and how they're going the extra mile to make the Olympics a success, I'm just choked that we have thoughtful people like this working in unionised areas today in 2012. Thank goodness they're not selfish moneygrabbers holding travellers to ransom or we'd be in trouble this summer and beyond.

Full automation may not happen for some time on several lines but it can't arrive quickly enough.

Johnnytheboy said:

wolves_wanderer said:

Hang on. The tube will be much busier than normal so why should the staff not get a little slice of the pie? Especially if they are being asked to work different hours and being banned from taking holiday?

We're going to be busy in the same period and have been banned from taking hols.

We're not getting any extra money and we're not striking over the fact.

Organisations have busy times and quiet times. That's work, get over it.

[egor110]

But you can't actually say when the quiet times are though when there are tube drivers , driving empty tubes.

[Dixie68]

egor110 said:

But you can't actually say when the quiet times are though when there are tube drivers , driving empty tubes.

Okay, I can as I work on them - engineering, not driving, and I'm regularly in the control rooms. The busy times are from around 0730 to 0900 in the morning, and 1600 to around 1830 in the evening. Between those times it tails off so the trains have a lot less passengers on them, plus we move trains around that don't have passengers on them, (from one depot to another for example), these trains will be marked as "Not in Service" on the passenger information boards and on the front of the train and are a regular occurrence.
The line that will take the brunt of the passengers for the Olympics is the Jubilee Line into Stratford, and to a lesser extent the DLR. Both of these lines operate an onboard automatic driving system that drives and stops the trains, the driver (in the case of the JL as the DLR doesn't have one) presses a button to close the doors at which point the train takes over again. Because computers now control the JL trains, more can be placed in service - in the time you would have seen two trains arrive at a platform you will now see three.
Also, train drivers already drive trains out of what would be normal working hours for engineering reasons, moving trains around, clearing lines etc, and are paid overtime to do so. Funnily enough we never have a shortage of drivers willing to do this in normal times - maybe they aren't all as keen to spend quality time with their families as you are?
It's nice that you think that they are giving up their free time selflessly for the Olympics, but this is a move by the unions that was predicted on the day we were awarded them by the Olympic Committee - I was in the RMT at the time in another post and we were called into a meeting with our union rep where he stated quite openly that they would do nothing until it was close to the start date and then "screw the government for every penny", (his words). I even came onto PH and posted about it. I stopped paying my subs on that day.

If you have any more questions about the running of the Tube feel free to ask.

[williamp]

are you saying that without drivers the lines could carry more trains? Is the exact amount known? It would be very helpful to get more caacity this way

Oh, and a PH question: how much power/torque does a train produce??

[Dixie68]

williamp said:

are you saying that without drivers the lines could carry more trains? Is the exact amount known? It would be very helpful to get more caacity this way

Oh, and a PH question: how much power/torque does a train produce??

The main factor in how many trains are in a section of track at any one time is set by safety distances - basically how close one train can get to the one in front. As the trains run fast the reaction time of the drivers needs to be taken into consideration, and to err on the side of safety this is done using stop/go lights. On a system with drivers controlling trains the safest thing to do is show the train behind a red light to stop it if another train is in the section ahead, only giving a green light when the preceding train has left the section. However with a computer controlled system the trains know exactly where in the section ahead the other train is so can continue moving even if that other train hasn't yet left the section. Effectively the gaps between trains become smaller and this ripples down the entire line, meaning the trains move along more quickly and that results in more being able to be injected into one end.

As for your torque question the short answer is 'lots'. The longer answer is 'I knew I shouldn't have said ask me anything' as I don't know the answer to everything

[mike62]

eldar said:

egor110 said:

So if the tube drivers have it so good why don't we see bankers flooding over to be tube drivers?
Re bob crowe , how very blue collar a phrase you use.

They are. The average banker, you know the one behind the counter, earns £22k a year. A little less than a tube driver who earns £75k for developing piles and going on strike.

I don't know any counter staff who are on anywhere near £22k, most are on much, much less.