Mrs Thatcher - rather different from todays politicians
Discussion
TwigtheWonderkid said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Do you see Blair, Gordo or even Cameron doing that ?
What examples do you have of Gordon Brown being on the take? I wasn't aware he was implicated at all in any financial impropriety. He certainly hasn't exploited his life in politics for financial gain since leaving office. If you know otherwise, let's hear it.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-exp...
deltaevo16 said:
Think the figure for closures under her tenure are around the 150 mark.
Yes good old Maggie, oh how I miss her, the devisive, destructive witch. The Falklands saved her ass, shame the Argies invaded
The coal industry was dead long before Thatcher. Yes good old Maggie, oh how I miss her, the devisive, destructive witch. The Falklands saved her ass, shame the Argies invaded
Even just after nationalisation the government had to import coal to meet demand, despite chucking millions in public money at it. 264 pits shut between 1957 and 1963. Between 1963 and 1968 350,000 miners left the industry. 13,000 forced redundancies in 1967.
Don't see anyone posturing about dancing on the graves of Harold Wilson and Lord Robens.
Trommel said:
The coal industry was dead long before Thatcher.
Even just after nationalisation the government had to import coal to meet demand, despite chucking millions in public money at it. 264 pits shut between 1957 and 1963. Between 1963 and 1968 350,000 miners left the industry. 13,000 forced redundancies in 1967.
Don't see anyone posturing about dancing on the graves of Harold Wilson and Lord Robens.
You and your crazy facts! Even just after nationalisation the government had to import coal to meet demand, despite chucking millions in public money at it. 264 pits shut between 1957 and 1963. Between 1963 and 1968 350,000 miners left the industry. 13,000 forced redundancies in 1967.
Don't see anyone posturing about dancing on the graves of Harold Wilson and Lord Robens.
Coal production was very much on the decline, (as you say). Blaming tht decline on the Thatcher Government is either ignorant, or just blind politics.
Caulkhead said:
Buy a lot of coal do you? No, me neither.
I wonder why the pits closed. . . . . .
Use a lot of electricity do you? Yes? Me tooI wonder why the pits closed. . . . . .
As we only mine 38% of the coal required for our coal fired powerstations I wonder why the pits closed. Self sufficient country providing employment or cheap imports...
Bosshogg76 said:
Use a lot of electricity do you? Yes? Me too
As we only mine 38% of the coal required for our coal fired powerstations I wonder why the pits closed. Self sufficient country providing employment or cheap imports...
Because foreign coal was, and is cheaper. The pits were making losses, and the national coal board was losing shed loads, and it was only kept afloat by subsidy. As we only mine 38% of the coal required for our coal fired powerstations I wonder why the pits closed. Self sufficient country providing employment or cheap imports...
Trommel said:
The coal industry was dead long before Thatcher.
Even just after nationalisation the government had to import coal to meet demand, despite chucking millions in public money at it. 264 pits shut between 1957 and 1963. Between 1963 and 1968 350,000 miners left the industry. 13,000 forced redundancies in 1967.
Don't see anyone posturing about dancing on the graves of Harold Wilson and Lord Robens.
Just interested in your figures, I'm not for or against miners by the way.Even just after nationalisation the government had to import coal to meet demand, despite chucking millions in public money at it. 264 pits shut between 1957 and 1963. Between 1963 and 1968 350,000 miners left the industry. 13,000 forced redundancies in 1967.
Don't see anyone posturing about dancing on the graves of Harold Wilson and Lord Robens.
My opinion on Thatcher remains the same, and has to more to do with other matters, than just the miners strike.
Bosshogg76 said:
Caulkhead said:
Buy a lot of coal do you? No, me neither.
I wonder why the pits closed. . . . . .
Use a lot of electricity do you? Yes? Me tooI wonder why the pits closed. . . . . .
As we only mine 38% of the coal required for our coal fired powerstations I wonder why the pits closed. Self sufficient country providing employment or cheap imports...
You'll be telling me next you're happy to pay twice as much for stuff made here instead of China. If you do well done, but you're in a minority.
TheHeretic said:
Because foreign coal was, and is cheaper. The pits were making losses, and the national coal board was losing shed loads, and it was only kept afloat by subsidy.
Was kind of a rhetorical question, hence me saying "cheap imports". However a country that is sitting on over a 100million tons of coal and can't mine that efficiently needs its head looked at. It may however be a blessing in disguise as coal may come back into vogue as a fuel source as energy costs rise. 
Caulkhead said:
You and I want cheap electricity, British coal miners wanted high pay - cheap electricity won.
You'll be telling me next you're happy to pay twice as much for stuff made here instead of China. If you do well done, but you're in a minority.
Given that the average Ozzie miner earns on average AUS$ 110,00 a year, they probably weren't to far short with their aspirations (actually the Pilbarra crane ops went on strike for earning only AUS$ 190,000, so miners will be earning more) . Investment in mining efficiently may have yielded cheaper coal and in turn bigger salaries, that's just speculating though.You'll be telling me next you're happy to pay twice as much for stuff made here instead of China. If you do well done, but you're in a minority.
It will return though, just as its doing in the oil industry. Wells once deemed unprofitable, now have us re worklng them at $750,000 a day, thats just a deap water rig, not including support vessels, helicopters, a nice new drill ship will cost a lot more than that to hire.
Edit to change 120,000 to 190,000...what was I thinking, drive a crane for that pittance you'd be mad
Edited by Bosshogg76 on Saturday 29th December 00:21
andymadmak said:
Unlike our MPs these days, with their porn films, duck houses and flipping residences it seems as though Mrs T had some morals when it came to her expense claims:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20800549
Do not forget Scargill's Flat. All animals are equal, some more than others etc etc.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20800549
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-203037...
Bosshogg76 said:
Given that the average Ozzie miner earns on average AUS$ 110,00 a year, they probably weren't to far short with their aspirations (actually the Pilbarra crane ops went on strike for earning only AUS$ 190,000, so miners will be earning more) . Investment in mining efficiently may have yielded cheaper coal and in turn bigger salaries, that's just speculating though.
It will return though, just as its doing in the oil industry. Wells once deemed unprofitable, now have us re worklng them at $750,000 a day, thats just a deap water rig, not including support vessels, helicopters, a nice new drill ship will cost a lot more than that to hire.
Edit to change 120,000 to 190,000...what was I thinking, drive a crane for that pittance you'd be mad
You have to be slightly mad to work at Pilbarra.It will return though, just as its doing in the oil industry. Wells once deemed unprofitable, now have us re worklng them at $750,000 a day, thats just a deap water rig, not including support vessels, helicopters, a nice new drill ship will cost a lot more than that to hire.
Edit to change 120,000 to 190,000...what was I thinking, drive a crane for that pittance you'd be mad
Coalface automation has probably reached the point at which UK deepmining makes sense again, but the capital costs mean we might as well burn someone else's coal first before getting wired into our own.
wattsie_2004 said:
This should help correct a 40 year mistake. Furthermore it may be freely used to replace the above version at any forthcoming protests/rallies/riots that require an obligatory one of these to be waved on a placard.
It doesn't rhyme though; Harold Wilson doesn't lend itself to a derogatory rhyming couplet involving dairy products, or at least I can't think of one.Bosshogg76 said:
Was kind of a rhetorical question, hence me saying "cheap imports". However a country that is sitting on over a 100million tons of coal and can't mine that efficiently needs its head looked at. It may however be a blessing in disguise as coal may come back into vogue as a fuel source as energy costs rise.
Rhetorical? Are you suggesting that we should pay however much extra to extract our own coal, meaning that our industry makes a loss for patriotic, or daft reasons? Really? We could not mine efficiently because many other countries can utilise open face mining, which is significantly cheaper, and easier to get at than sending some grumpy Welshmen down a shaft for a few miles hacking away at a seam a few inches across. It is simple economics. Add to that the forcing of the energy companies to buy that expensive coal, the money given to the coal industry to offset the losses, and the miners asking for more money than is possible, and yes, you end up with imports from abroad, and a failed coal industry. We may be able to extract in the future, bit at the time, it was just retarded to continue. Private enterprise was more than welcome to try, but the taxpayer was rightly stopped from paying for the industries losses.
When I was in school in the 70's we were being taught that the steel works in Port Talbot, around the corner from me, had a deep water port as it was cheaper to bring the coal in from Venezuela than up the valley a few miles away.
Later on after the closures Tower Colliery made a come back under a buy out and I think that was feeding Aberthawe until very recently? Makes me wonder if better brains and less fighting on both sides might have helped, obviously not keeping everything open for the hell of it.
Edit. The port was not there for coal only obviously, in import part of it was brought up.
Later on after the closures Tower Colliery made a come back under a buy out and I think that was feeding Aberthawe until very recently? Makes me wonder if better brains and less fighting on both sides might have helped, obviously not keeping everything open for the hell of it.
Edit. The port was not there for coal only obviously, in import part of it was brought up.
Edited by jmorgan on Saturday 29th December 09:07
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